DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[innocentvillager]

Eh, okay. Didn't read VFP and I'm fine voting there.

VOTE: VFP

[joqiza]

Bell idg where the confidence comes from and I'm still stuck on VFP. I took another look and I really.. don't think the slot is aligned with mastina.

- his call-out of cephrir for being scum if mastina is town felt uninformed of mastina's alignment
- I think he believes his marry read

If he flips scum I think he flips terrorist. Which would be hype but that feels like a lottery ticket read to me. This is the kind of situation where I'd usually offer a quid pro quo to resolve the deadlock, i.e. you lead my vote today, if it flips town I lead yours tomorrow, but I don't think that'll work in this setup cuz tomorrow is gonna be about the nuking.

That said on rr I also felt like this was a better representation of where my head's at rn:

VOTE: Church of Skitter

There's a lot of people suspicious of this slot but no one's quite taken the step to vote them, so let me be the first.

If the dueling wagons remain between Nexus/VFP my vote is still spiritually on Nexus ig but tbh after the rr I don't care for either. Nexus is sort of like +scum above rand versus Church which is an actual scumread. I don't TR T3 either. I think my stance on Robert is clear.

[joqiza]

@Lambdadelta Robert is not happening today. No one wants him. Respectfully I'm gonna ask you to give your take on one of the other wagons. If you're stuck on Rob just get a group together to nuke him tomorrow. Marry will literally do whatever you ask her to do so that's one already.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.7

VFP (8) - Bell, gorilla, Nexus, samantha97, Toogeloo, The Church of Skitter, Cephrir, innocentvillager
Nexus (4) - Titus, T3, DeasVail, Save The Dragons
Robert M Hunter (4) - Lady Lambdadelta, marry, Robert M Hunter, The Entity
innocentvillager (1) - Vaxkiller
marry (1) - VFP
The Church of Skitter (1) - joqiza

Not Voting [3] - Koto, DeathNote, Et Al

(expired on 2021-05-22 17:52:00) remain until day end

With 22 players alive, it takes 12 to reach a majority.

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: Church

[The Entity]

Oh no I dont want the entity to be scum

Don't worry, we're not.

[The Entity]

VOTE: VFP

[innocentvillager]

Bell idg where the confidence comes from and I'm still stuck on VFP. I took another look and I really.. don't think the slot is aligned with mastina.

- his call-out of cephrir for being scum if mastina is town felt uninformed of mastina's alignment
- I think he believes his marry read

meh, maybe mildly town!indicative but feel like even i can fake posts like that (im not very good at scum, for those of u who don't know me)

imo posts like "if this flips X (knowing they'll flip Y), I believe this is true because A B C" are also decent content to put out as scum bc you carry no responsibility for the read since after the flip your analysis is meaningless, and ive definitely done it as scum

what about the marry read felt like town and not scum just like faking a push on town?

[innocentvillager]

ftr idg where bell confidence comes from either but i doubt this is something scum!bell is capable of, tbh

i also trust that if this town!bell, VFP is +rand scum and besides not reading his boring flat iso that's good enough for me

[innocentvillager]

cephrir and titus im not crazy right Bell feels way different this game than TM LN ya?

that one he was like, kinda townish sometiumes but really struggling to obvtown him, here he feels actually present, isn't just shooting down our read confidence, making actual pushes, being snippy at people calling him scum, etc.

[Titus]

VOTE: Robert

I feel Bell is town. It's a weaker read but enough for today.

[innocentvillager]

I don’t think there’s anyone here that actually thinks VFP is town over a bunch of other players, so I think there is a really good chance of this flipping scum.

hm it seems like joqiza and titus at least are pretty against this elimination?

even if they weren't, i don't think no one thinking VFP is town here is scum!indicative especially when they are easily picking up votes

idk ur other reason seems fine but this one feels forced and that's not necessarily scum!inidcative for u im just saying i don't necessarily agree with this reason

[Titus]

hm it seems like joqiza and titus at least are pretty against this elimination?

even if they weren't, i don't think no one thinking VFP is town here is scum!indicative especially when they are easily picking up votes

idk ur other reason seems fine but this one feels forced and that's not necessarily scum!inidcative for u im just saying i don't necessarily agree with this reason

I do disagree with this. While I could be wrong, I strongly feel VFP is town. The fact they are getting votes indicates a hive mind.

Second, if VFP were scum, I'd expect Nexus or Robert to go through unless all three were scum.

[joqiza]

FWIW I also townread Bell. I just have no reason to sheep him. Maybe he is a great scumhunter, idk. I've never played with him and so far this game he's unproven. If you have reason to trust him then sure. Tbh I think sheeping can be valid and there are certain players whose reads I take into account even if I can't see it myself. But that kind of thing has to be earned, for me.

I don't think anything VFP did is unfakeable either. He is a townlean, not a townread. Idm if the wagon goes through I just don't care to be on it.

With respect to the marry read. My intuition after reading the game is that scum was willing to let mastina go very early. The fact that she flipped eavesdropper implies group scum did not expect her to even make it to the nuke stage, else they'd have her pick a silo. The next part is hard for me to explain, but I feel like scum wouldn't actually start off the next day with a hard push. They'd have placed themselves on the mastina wagon in ways where they would not be immediately suspicious. At the start of the next day, I think they'd be more likely to allow town to step back and try to eat each other. Some townies will look bad because they defended mastina, by virtue of lack of information. Other town will call them out on it. Why, as scum, get your own hands dirty? Just hang back and pick a few villagers to defend during the TvTs.

[innocentvillager]

Ya Titus I think we are on the same page about the “hive mind” making it slightly more likely VFP is town (with only that information) unless I’m misunderstanding

joqiza that is interesting and could be true. It’s a little too specific of a narrative for me to put all my eggs in tho, but I’ll keep this in mind

like it feels like there couldve been other ways that this gamestate developed besides the one u are positing. But I wasn’t around for D1 so idk maybe ur just right

[Nexus]

VOTE: Church

Why are you ignoring the three wagons and throwing a naked vote?

[joqiza]

hm it seems like joqiza and titus at least are pretty against this elimination?

even if they weren't, i don't think no one thinking VFP is town here is scum!indicative especially when they are easily picking up votes

idk ur other reason seems fine but this one feels forced and that's not necessarily scum!inidcative for u im just saying i don't necessarily agree with this reason

I do disagree with this. While I could be wrong, I strongly feel VFP is town. The fact they are getting votes indicates a hive mind.

Second, if VFP were scum, I'd expect Nexus or Robert to go through unless all three were scum.

I actually want to distance myself from this particular line of logic tho, I don't really agree with this as a reason to TR VFP.

[innocentvillager]

we still have 10 whole days still and joq wanted to start another wagon on church so presumably vax followed

what’s pinging you about that

[innocentvillager]

hm it seems like joqiza and titus at least are pretty against this elimination?

even if they weren't, i don't think no one thinking VFP is town here is scum!indicative especially when they are easily picking up votes

idk ur other reason seems fine but this one feels forced and that's not necessarily scum!inidcative for u im just saying i don't necessarily agree with this reason

I do disagree with this. While I could be wrong, I strongly feel VFP is town. The fact they are getting votes indicates a hive mind.

Second, if VFP were scum, I'd expect Nexus or Robert to go through unless all three were scum.

I actually want to distance myself from this particular line of logic tho, I don't really agree with this as a reason to TR VFP.

meh fine, I can see arguments for or against. I agree it’s probably too early to say much about VFP’s ability to get votes as town!indicative for him

[Save The Dragons]

[MCMAW SYSTEM] Attention Taskforce members, this is Command. Soldier deep-city-lights has picked up their intelligence but has not communicated on the network with us yet. We are giving soldier deep-city-lights 24 hours to message or we will draft a new cadet. Carry on soldiers.

So this is scum, right?

one of the reasons i scumread mastina was because this looks like scum attempting an easy shot, not bussing a partner. i think vfp is town, or at least not scum.

[joqiza]

@IV I think most resistance reads are just trash honestly, it's totally conditional on the setup mechanics and how close scum are to parity / achieving their win condition. Like the implication that scum!VFP ---> one of Nexus or Robert goes through has this intermediate step of all 4 group scum piling on one of them and it doesn't actually make sense to me given half the town is about to have access to warheads

[Titus]

hm it seems like joqiza and titus at least are pretty against this elimination?

even if they weren't, i don't think no one thinking VFP is town here is scum!indicative especially when they are easily picking up votes

idk ur other reason seems fine but this one feels forced and that's not necessarily scum!inidcative for u im just saying i don't necessarily agree with this reason

I do disagree with this. While I could be wrong, I strongly feel VFP is town. The fact they are getting votes indicates a hive mind.

Second, if VFP were scum, I'd expect Nexus or Robert to go through unless all three were scum.

I actually want to distance myself from this particular line of logic tho, I don't really agree with this as a reason to TR VFP.

meh fine, I can see arguments for or against. I agree it’s probably too early to say much about VFP’s ability to get votes as town!indicative for him

This is why I am not arguing the push is scummy. I don't know that I'm right. I just feel I am. The wagonomics follows from that.

I also don't like VFP's absense fwiw.

[The Church of Skitter]

hm it seems like joqiza and titus at least are pretty against this elimination?

even if they weren't, i don't think no one thinking VFP is town here is scum!indicative especially when they are easily picking up votes

idk ur other reason seems fine but this one feels forced and that's not necessarily scum!inidcative for u im just saying i don't necessarily agree with this reason

I do disagree with this. While I could be wrong, I strongly feel VFP is town. The fact they are getting votes indicates a hive mind.

Second, if VFP were scum, I'd expect Nexus or Robert to go through unless all three were scum.

they’re not getting votes from a hive mind. They’re getting votes because they’re the elim today and nothing else is going to change it. If ur not voting VFP after my pleading ur just scum because town!titus actually just always joins this wagon and catches onto what I’m trying to communicate.

[innocentvillager]

at this point the resistance argument doesn't even apply anyway because at this point i think it's clear that there's real resistance from multiple players to VFP wagon so there's not much more point talking about it atp imo

[The Church of Skitter]

[MCMAW SYSTEM] Attention Taskforce members, this is Command. Soldier deep-city-lights has picked up their intelligence but has not communicated on the network with us yet. We are giving soldier deep-city-lights 24 hours to message or we will draft a new cadet. Carry on soldiers.

So this is scum, right?

one of the reasons i scumread mastina was because this looks like scum attempting an easy shot, not bussing a partner. i think vfp is town, or at least not scum.

VFP isn’t scum because of mastina they’re scum because of bell and they’re always the elim today.