Micro 1013: IMoA [game over!]

[Sigmund]

This is very simply not true, norwee is often a very mislimmable player who’s emotional reactions get misread as scum flails.

I've literally never mis-read him

[northsidegal]

my computer keeps crashing so i'm gonna type this sort of fast without really taking the time to quote anything directly to respond to sang froid scumreading sigmund

i townread sigmund primarily because i have a decently strong conviction that, were sigmund to be scum, he would be more actively pushing towards a scum win condition. you might think that he already his through whatever he's doing, the vote switching and etc., but i think that it would be a lot more "obvious" if he were scum. as it is now, i don't think sigmund is really "hardpushing" anyone, moreso kind of mulling around, seemingly bored – were he scum, i think that an actual, non-meme hard push would be being made on someone who the scumteam wanted dead. i don't think that we're seeing that, and based on my mental model of sigmund and in general of players like him, i think that that's town indicative.

just wanted to give my reasons

p-edit haha wow so many posts

[sang froid]

I have at no point pretended to be nice to you. If you can’t read blatantly hostile sarcasm aimed in your direction, that’s on you.

why are you crying to the rest of the game about me being mean to you if you spend all your time hurling insults at me?

I don’t give a shit if you’re mean to me, and have no idea where you’re getting that impression. The fact that you’re incapable of launching a defence of your play this game beyond ad hom has nothing to do with the drivel you’re spewing in my direction and everything to do with your weak arguments for why your play thus far would ever come from a town slot.

[Moongrass]

pretty sure i know who you are now, but unfortunately i'd still slow down on you saying i don't scumread you. my reads were kind of thrown up in the air yesterday but i'm still not really convinced on you being town

I guess it has been a while. I'm not scum. Can we work together now?

[Sigmund]

I don’t give a shit if you’re mean to me, and have no idea where you’re getting that impression. The fact that you’re incapable of launching a defence of your play this game beyond ad hom has nothing to do with the drivel you’re spewing in my direction and everything to do with your weak arguments for why your play thus far would ever come from a town slot.

you're the one @ the rest of the game WAAAAH SIGMUND IS AD-HOMMING ME.

Like every post you send at me is some thinly veiled insult

so why are you crying about me dishing some back?

[Sigmund]

im just laughing so hard right now.

you rep in spend all your posts insulting me and advocating for a policy elim because the game would be easier to play if im not here.

then clutch your pearls and begin crying about ad-hom when I throw one post back.

like seriously wild stuff.

I'm gonna stop talking to you because it's clearly a waste of my time.

[sang froid]

My desire to eliminate is clearly not a policy lim, something you’d know if you were bothering to read my posts.

sounds like a policy elim when you end your post with "even if he's town it'll be easier to scumhunt when he's gone"

No, it’s just that even if you only end up being a policy lim, it’s still beneficial.

[Moongrass]

btw you should go to costco and buy a mirror it'll help with your scum hunt

Is it bad that I found this really funny?

[Sigmund]

oh no moongrass you're susceptible to asshole humor watch out sang froid might advocate for your policy elim next so they can finally play with the civilized folks

[sang froid]

I don’t give a shit if you’re mean to me, and have no idea where you’re getting that impression. The fact that you’re incapable of launching a defence of your play this game beyond ad hom has nothing to do with the drivel you’re spewing in my direction and everything to do with your weak arguments for why your play thus far would ever come from a town slot.

you're the one @ the rest of the game WAAAAH SIGMUND IS AD-HOMMING ME.

Like every post you send at me is some thinly veiled insult

so why are you crying about me dishing some back?

I’m not crying at all lol, but feel free to continue misrepping me.

I repped in and called you scum. I haven’t particularly felt any urge to be nice about you because your play this game has been asshole-ish. The fact that you took pleasure in bullying someone out of the game is evidence enough of that.

I do not give a flying fuck about what language you use to address me. You are a gnat to me, buzzing around. I have other things I could say about what I think of you but I won’t.

My point about the ad hom is,

very clearly

based in the fact that you’re resorting to that instead of any reasoned argument as to why you’re not scum. That should be, but apparently isn’t to you, either because you’re being wilfully dense or otherwise, anything to do with the fact that you’re being insulting. It’s everything to do with the fact that you’re incapable of justifying your play this far as town, and are therefore trying to double down on discrediting the person calling for your head. It’s transparent, it’s lazy, but it is often effective because towns so often misread vitriol for townishness.

I don’t particularly have any respect for the style in which you’re choosing to play scum, but I’ll grant that on a base level it is quite effective.

[sang froid]

you rep in spend all your posts insulting me and advocating for a policy elim

Another pair of misreps. Note that Sigmund is either incapable or unwilling to engage with the actual arguments being presented.

[Sigmund]

@other players:

Please note that Sigmund is incapable of substantively addressing any of my points against him, and is immediately resorting to ad hom attacks.

^ this sounds a lot like

"I am a good player who wants to have a civilized and nice discussion with Sigmund, but he's choosing to instead hurl ad hom attacks on me to avoid my points"


when in reality you repped in and began insulting me immediately and spent multiple posts hurling insults at me so I fired some zingers back.

Keep clutching your pearls and pretending you're some kind of victim or some bullshit lol

[Sigmund]

I don’t particularly have any respect for the style in which you’re choosing to play scum, but I’ll grant that on a base level it is quite effective.

i have 0 respect for you crying about me insulting you after you insulted me multiple times first regardless of what your alignment is.

[Sigmund]

wow its such a waste of time talking to you I should stop haha

[sang froid]

i townread sigmund primarily because i have a decently strong conviction that, were sigmund to be scum, he would be more actively pushing towards a scum win condition. you might think that he already his through whatever he's doing, the vote switching and etc., but i think that it would be a lot more "obvious" if he were scum. as it is now, i don't think sigmund is really "hardpushing" anyone, moreso kind of mulling around, seemingly bored – were he scum, i think that an actual, non-meme hard push would be being made on someone who the scumteam wanted dead. i don't think that we're seeing that, and based on my mental model of sigmund and in general of players like him, i think that that's town indicative.

I mean I think he’s playing to a scum wincon but not exactly in the way you believe he would if he were scum. I think a lot of what he’s doing is trying to create a persona that will be TR regardless of his actions, which thereby gives him carte blanche to just do scummy shit in plain view. I think that’s his overarching aim for today, and the hopping around and being opportunistic is part of it; it’s an opportunity to look like he’s actual doing things instead of purely fluffposting which is what he’d be stuck at if he didn’t bother to push people at all. The troublesome thing is that there’s no substance or thought process behind his pushes, I think, and that’s further encouraged by the fact that when called on that he

cannot

provide it. Perhaps he’s just unwilling to, but I think it’s because there is nothing behind it. He’s a lazy scumplayer who wants to get by on being toneread as town.

I’ll think about what you had to say though. There’s some merit in the idea that he would be more committed on a single hard push if scum instead of flirting around, but I’m just not convinced the weight of that out balances... everything else about how he’s playing and what he’s doing.

[Moongrass]

I did warn sang about the head banging. You know that feeling you get where you're super mad and sure the other person is scum, that usually means they're town.

[sang froid]

@other players:

Please note that Sigmund is incapable of substantively addressing any of my points against him, and is immediately resorting to ad hom attacks.

^ this sounds a lot like

"I am a good player who wants to have a civilized and nice discussion with Sigmund, but he's choosing to instead hurl ad hom attacks on me to avoid my points"


when in reality you repped in and began insulting me immediately and spent multiple posts hurling insults at me so I fired some zingers back.

Keep clutching your pearls and pretending you're some kind of victim or some bullshit lol

Again, I don’t care if you engage with the reasons why you’re scum politely or with a side-serving or insults, what I care about is whether you engage with them. You’ve consistently chosen not to, I think because I have you absolutely dead to rights and you don’t know what to do other than lash out when that happens.

The fact that I’m choosing to present that information in a civil way to the rest of the thread while you deserve only the civility required of me by site and game rules is the reason for the difference in tone.

[northsidegal]

The troublesome thing is that there’s no substance or thought process behind his pushes,

I think, and that’s further encouraged by the fact that when called on that he cannot provide it. Perhaps he’s just unwilling to, but I think it’s because there is nothing behind it.

He’s a lazy scumplayer

who wants to get by on being toneread as town.

My computer keeps crashing which is really annoying so I'll keep it short - I think the bolded claims are just false.

[sang froid]

I did warn sang about the head banging. You know that feeling you get where you're super mad and sure the other person is scum, that usually means they're town.

I’m not mad, though. This is calm me, as previously mentioned. I just strongly believe that Sigmund is scum and he’s done nothing (well, one small thing, that post on the last page about how scum push miselims is something I’m thinking about) to change my mind on that since I arrived or in his engagement with me or the two of you tonight.

[sang froid]

I don’t particularly have any respect for the style in which you’re choosing to play scum, but I’ll grant that on a base level it is quite effective.

i have 0 respect for you crying about me insulting you after you insulted me multiple times first regardless of what your alignment is.

Why would I care if a bully has respect for me or not lol

[Sigmund]

let's get some base facts:

1. I never insulted norwee.
2. my push on norwee was to sort his alignment.
3. we can disagree about whether anything I did while pushing him was outside the range of acceptable conduct in a mafia game, if you want to cry about "bullying" or whatever, feel free to quote what you thought is "unacceptable behavior" and we can talk about it.
4. I can point out multiple times you insulted me. I insulted you back in kind because that's what I do when people insult me.
5. I don't give a shit what you say about me because I hold 0 regard for your opinion.
6. Your argument for me having scum motivation to push norwee immediately for mis-elim on D1 when there is not a single soul voting for him is a laughable joke. It is not even rooted in reality it's such a bad argument.
7. Your argument for policy-elimming me to "promote game state happiness" or whatever the fuck you call it is a joke and just shit play if you're town.
8. I don't care about being mis-eliminated. its a game.
9. I'm not going to talk to you for the rest of the game so please don't address me or send anything my way after tonight, you can vent out whatever feelings you have but I don't really care to interact with you anymore.

[sang froid]

The troublesome thing is that there’s no substance or thought process behind his pushes,

I think, and that’s further encouraged by the fact that when called on that he cannot provide it. Perhaps he’s just unwilling to, but I think it’s because there is nothing behind it.

He’s a lazy scumplayer

who wants to get by on being toneread as town.

My computer keeps crashing which is really annoying so I'll keep it short - I think the bolded claims are just false.

Would you like to get into why that is now or another time? If your computer is crashing perhaps another time is best, I have to go shortly and I’m a little drained tonight.

[Sigmund]

logging off for now i'll do some scum-hunting tomm if I have time.

[northsidegal]

I think there hasn't been a lot of elaboration, but the votes have followed something of a pattern of mostly staying within one PoE.

I think that I'm a lazy scumplayer, and that sig's play doesn't resemble that or any other lazy scumplayer. I think sig is a high effort scumplayer and sort of a lazy town player.

I think sig has done some outrageous stuff, but is probably a townie. I also think that enough has been said about that outrageous stuff, and the rest is best left to postgame.

[sang froid]

I don’t care if you don’t want to interact with me, Sigmund, feel free to stop responding to my posts if you wish. I will continue to respond to yours and to point out why I think they indicate that you’re scum until I have reason to believe that’s not the case.