Mini 142: Guitarists Mafia- Game Over

[Mr. Flay]

Talitha: I don't *know* that his vote is mindless, but the way in which it was done (

i.e.

with no explanation at all) made it seem semi-random, without actually stating such. When he followed it up with a cute little "because I know he's evil" it made me pretty certain that it was a fishing expedition. Not 100% certain, just like I doubt you're 100% certain that I'm voting him because I'm scum... I understand where you're coming from, Talitha, I just think you're wrong (know you're wrong about me, in any case). You voted for me long before Assasin told us his vote was random, now you say you're voting for me because I seemed to know something about his vote when none of us knew it was random. Yet IS gets a free ride for saying Dourgrim is evil as well. How many investigative roles do you think there *are* in this game, Talitha?

Seems to me like two or three of you are trying to get Dourgrim quicklynched. Meanwhile we have no meaningful data to go on for day 2 yet... I didn't even realize Nonny hadn't posted yet.

I'll shut up now and let somebody else contribute.

[Talitha]

When he followed it up with a cute little "because I know he's evil" it made me pretty certain that it was a fishing expedition

First it's mindless, then it's fishing? Fishing for what?

You voted for me long before Assasin told us his vote was random, now you say you're voting for me because I seemed to know something about his vote when none of us knew it was random.

What would you expect me to do when the person I am voting for gives me more justification for my vote? Remove it?

Yet IS gets a free ride for saying Dourgrim is evil as well. How many investigative roles do you think there *are* in this game, Talitha?

IS always gets a free ride, otherwise we'd be lynching him on Day 1 every game.

[Maverick]

Internet Stranger said:

So you pick someone at random, lynch them, and hope for the best. This time around, Dourgrim is the one I picked and hence, the winner of the Day 1 bandwagon. So lets hop to it, pile on the votes and show him how popular he really is.

Well, if your going to pick someone random, why pick someone who has played mafia a lot, and is very experienced with the game, when you have newbies in this game that have never played before. I mean the chances of being scum are the same guessing at Dourgrim and a newbie, but if Dourgrim were town, that would be a bigger loss than if a newbie were town.. That is my way of looking at it.. But then there is always the possibility of Dourgrim being scum, so if you really think that's the case then forget everything I just said.

Mr. Flay: Your half correct. I have posted twice this game, once the main topic of the post was me asking your opinions on whether we should state possible roles. (Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, ect.) And you stated your opinion, which was that you thought it was a bad idea, and I don't disagree, like I said the post was a question. The second post was telling you my response to your opinion, and letting fellow members of this game know that I will not be able to post very much. So in the way you are correct I have only posted twice (Now 3). But the reasoning is like I said, not because I'm lurking, which is the way you are wrong.

*Maverick*

[Dourgrim]

Maverick: you can't give me a "break" with regard to random bandwagons just because I'm an experienced player... as you astutely pointed out, I could be scum, which would (theoretically, at least) give me a better chance of misleading you all via pretty words and lots of semantics. I'm not, of course, but that's the reasoning behind why Day One bandwagons are supposed to be random... at least by IS's way of thinking.

I don't agree with the practice as a hard-and-fast rule, though. I think a random bandwagon is fine, but not a random

lynch

, which is what IS seems to be pushing for. That's why my vote is still on him at the moment... bandwagonning someone for information is fine, pressing for a lynch based on nothing is not.

Having said all of that, I'll be happy to give the name of my role if you folks think it necessary...

[Talitha]

OK, why is Dourgrim offering to claim his role name when only 2 people are voting for him?

[Mr. Flay]

When he followed it up with a cute little "because I know he's evil" it made me pretty certain that it was a fishing expedition

First it's mindless, then it's fishing? Fishing for what?

Mindless, fishing, weird.... it flipped my triggers. If it doesn't yours, and it seems to not be anyone else's, then so be it. I'm just throwing out what I've got so far.

You voted for me long before Assasin told us his vote was random, now you say you're voting for me because I seemed to know something about his vote when none of us knew it was random.

What would you expect me to do when the person I am voting for gives me more justification for my vote? Remove it?

Of course not, provided you feel I've continued to justify it. I don't see quite what you think I'm doing so differently, besides continuing to debate this with you.

Yet IS gets a free ride for saying Dourgrim is evil as well. How many investigative roles do you think there *are* in this game, Talitha?

IS always gets a free ride, otherwise we'd be lynching him on Day 1 every game.

That's why I said I wasn't voting him...despite his behavior, nobody ever seem to lynch him for it.

[Dourgrim]

OK, why is Dourgrim offering to claim his role name when only 2 people are voting for him?

Because the point of the random Day One bandwagon theory is to obtain information for the Town... and, since I'm pro-Town, I'm willing to give said information if everyone thinks it'll be beneficial. You will note that I did

not

offer to role

claim

, but rather just to give the name of my role... that's because I believe a full claim would be a bad idea at this point from anybody.

Just trying to be helpful... but hey, if you don't want me to say anything, I'll happily be quiet.

[Internet Stranger]

yea yea whatever. Lynch lynch!

[Dourgrim]

And now we go almost an entire day without a single post... not a good sign. Perhaps our Esteemed Mod should set a deadline?

[Mastermind of Sin]

i'm still here...just don't have anything to say, really...

[Mr. Flay]

Maverick: Your logic on NOT voting Dourgrim is completely warped. If he's scum, then he's a bigger loss to the mafia, just like he's a bigger loss (arguably) to the town if he's innocent. Either way, the equation balances, which is why it's called a .... *random* vote! Metagaming of that sort is counterproductive, even though I agree with you that he's not a good lynch target at this point. Since I can't disagree with your conclusions, only your methodology,

Unvote: Maverick

.

I blame IS for stifling discussion. Where are we at on a vote count? Nowhere fast, I know... I'd rather see that than a deadline at this point.

[Cubsfan4life]

Vote Count

Dourgrim- 2 (Internet Stranger, Assasin)
Mastermind of Sin- 2 (KingEnigma, tick)
KingEnigma- 1 (justinl)
justinl- 1 (Maverick)
Mr. Flay- 1 (Talitha)
Talitha- 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
Internet Stranger- 1 (Dourgrim)

Not Voting: nonny, Mr. Flay


No deadline yet.

[Talitha]

I'll

unvote: Mr Flay, vote Dourgrim

He seems a little

too

unconcerned about being bandwagoned. And this seems better to me than stalling the game and getting a deadline.

[Mastermind of Sin]

not as sure aboit my own points as before, and since talitha hasn't done anything else suspicious since then, I'll

UNVOTE:Talitha

[Internet Stranger]

Its not my fault that I actually have the sack to go on and make up my mind on who to lynch.

The stifling discussion is due to lurkers, not me. Im actually being the most productive at moving things along. Now lets lynch Dourgrim and move on to day 2 please.

[KingEnigma]

The only problem with your style of playing from my perspective IS is, that if I choose to follow what your saying I'm going to be looked at as scummy by jumping onto a bandwagon.

You can get away with this type of behaviour, yet when I try it i'm going to be a bad player or get lynched myself because of it. I would love to be able to play this way for a few games and see what its like, but it is not going to happen.

I'm glad that you can do this, but I cant, not if I want to survive.

[justinl]

whatever..

unvote vote dourgrim

[Dourgrim]

He seems a little

too

unconcerned about being bandwagoned. And this seems better to me than stalling the game and getting a deadline.

This is inconsistent with your questioning of why I was willing to give my role name with only two votes on me, don't you think? I'm

very

worried about being lynched (because I hate being lynched for little reason), which is why I offered to give a role name to appease people rather than do a full roleclaim.

Do you all want a roleclaim, or do you just want to lynch me without worrying about it?

unvote: IS

vote: Talitha

because of the inconsistency I referred to above.

[Talitha]

Your offer to give a name after only 2 votes was odd. So was your assertion that a random bandwagon on you was quite justified. I'm not sure how that adds up to me being inconsistent.

With regards to roleclaiming, I'm not sure how you giving us a guitarist name is going to help much. We don't have any information as to scum roles yet. If you were town, I'd expect that you would want to keep that kind of info to yourself for as long as possible, though..

[Mr. Flay]

I know it's near the holidays and all, but we've got like 5 lurkers...I think nonny has a grand total of one post, and that one had almost no content.

Vote: nonny

for making all of one post so far, and that one uninformative. Post or perish,

n'est pas?

[Mastermind of Sin]

yup, nonny has made just the one post, not even making a random vote for the time being...

[tick]

shit.. sorry...
I'm one of those slackers.
Too much work and cricket to go to recently.

unvote mastermind of sin

pointless at this stage really. And I've done nothing whatsoever to back it up.

It's pretty confusing to get much out of what has gone on so far as it all appears to be talking about the way people have played in the past and what normally happens, and I have only just come here so I don't have much clue about any of it.

I think it is best to to not have any sort of mass role-claim of our names or even people giving them away under little of no pressure as at this stage we don't know what kind of names the mafia have.
They may well have guitarist names indistinguishable from ours, which the mod could do to make it fairer and to stop us mass claiming to weed out the mafia.
So this is quite likely.

Perhaps they are violinists or something but the mod may still have given them names to use safely.

Or maybe they aren't guitarists and don't have any idea what names are safe, which we can only hope for.
then if they slip up and claim a name that someone else has we no we have our mafia. ( well know it is 1 of 2 people at least.)

[Internet Stranger]

Or we can just lynch Dourgrim now and save the petty lurker hunting and squabbles for Day 2.

[Assasin]

I'm around, just have nothing to say

[Dourgrim]

Your offer to give a name after only 2 votes was odd. So was your assertion that a random bandwagon on you was quite justified. I'm not sure how that adds up to me being inconsistent.

What makes offering a role name odd after two votes? I did specifically say that I would only give the name if/when

the Town

decided it would be prudent. Now, had I actually

given

the name so quickly, I could understand your point... but I didn't.

And I most certainly did

not

"assert" that a random bandwagon on me was "quite justified." I merely pointed out the flaw in Maverick's theory as to why I might be a poor lynch choice... and you'd think that me pointing out something like that would be construed as a

good

thing... sheesh. Maybe I should just start being obtuse and difficult rather than trying to be logical and helpful, eh?

With regards to roleclaiming, I'm not sure how you giving us a guitarist name is going to help much. We don't have any information as to scum roles yet. If you were town, I'd expect that you would want to keep that kind of info to yourself for as long as possible, though..

... which, again, I have. You seem to be pointedly ignoring the fact that I did

not

give any information, but merely offered to give it if

the Town

thought it was a good idea. How convenient for you.