Micro 1020: To Tell the Truth [Game over]

[Datisi]

VOTE: pooky

fun fact: when i hit the "vote" button, my phone's autofill recommend "unvote", "aldus", and "pooky".

[Datisi]

VOTE: pooky

fun fact: when i hit the "vote" button, my phone's autofill recommended* "unvote", "aldus", and "pooky".

whoops

[Datisi]

VOTE: t3

srsvt

[Datisi]

i felt something like this might happen, but even if t3 is town, i figure a 1-for-1 trade isn't that bad

can y'all nerds fast night this please thank you

pedit: that is true :3

[Datisi]

I will be busy moving for most of today and tomorrow and won't be able to follow the topic closely. If anything needs urgent attention, PM me and/or Ircher.

fucking lol, should we pm umlaut?

considering it's nightless i can talk shit so - if t3 greens i am deathtunnelling pooky tomorrow so that's gonna be fun

[Datisi]

i've been playing with penguin too much, i don't trust shit what people say after hammer

[Datisi]

ok hear me out
we yeet the obvious quickhammering scum first
then we use info tomorrow

VOTE: pooky

actually dwlee might as well be scum too because the "ok e-1 this" and "wAiT wAs tHaT HaMmEr" are kinda awful actually but whatever

[Datisi]

^^ welp, that is scum knowing they're fucked and attempting to nitpick things that obviously don't matter in a desperate attempt to turn the wagon away from them. sad to see it.

[Datisi]

if you bus pooky today i will let you live to day 4

[Datisi]

This is literally the exact same thing that happened with Cakey in C9++. This weird "wow you must be scum" for a comment like "scum misrep?" which isn't meant to be serious. Should I call it the Dwlee tell?

then maybe don't make comments like that when your slot looks bad? also link me that, i wanna see what you're referring to

also vote pooky lmfao what do you think his alignment is

[Datisi]

the "lol we should wagon tigerente bc of their avatar" reads much more like a joke than "datisi is misrepping me" but whatever, i don't care about arguing about this since you're not the day's yeet anyway

why is angel your vote?

[Datisi]

i can see her being a partner to pooky, sure

[Datisi]

i can't lmfao he's scum for quickhammering a townie on page 2

[Datisi]

yes

if you're about to say "but that would be town!pooky hammering and town!pooky couldn't have known that t3 was gonna flip" don't even waste your time. scum!pooky doesn't quickhammer a partner right out of the gate, but the odds of town!pooky hammering that quickly at all are so astronomically low in the first place, that in that scenario i would *have* to accept that that wa town!pooky. here i don't have to because there's a much simpler explanation.

[Datisi]

he just gives me town vibes

how tf does pooky give you town vibes here

[Datisi]

"town can quickhammer" yeah sure. give me some proof that town!pooky would be that much of an ass to catapult someone 26 posts into the game. alternatively give me proof that pooky actually thought t3 had a decent amount of scum equity. without either of those, pooky is so much more likely to be scum, and this should be a no-brainer

[Datisi]

how the hell are you coming up with less than 70% chance of being scum?

[Datisi]

scum quickhammering on page 2 is actually brilliant play, if the rest of the game goes "but scum... wouldn't... do that... "

like he quickhammered so we're obviously living in one of those two worlds, and the scum!pooky one is much more likely than the town!pooky one

[Datisi]

actually you know what sure, because i have no clue where tf you're getting those numbers from

and like, i would call openwolfing to be 100% scum but maybe i'm missing something here

[Datisi]

there's "scummy" and there's "quickhammering a rando on page 2 for no reason whatsoever and denying the town a whole day one's worth of information"

[Datisi]

LMFAO OKAY

town!pooky isn't this bad and would be able to read me here

[Datisi]

LMFAO OKAY

town!pooky isn't this bad and would be able to read me here

[Datisi]

nah i won't blame you postg scum gotta do what scum gotta do

like i'm decently sure town!pooky would see what i'm trying to say here and would at least attempt to talk to me before going full omgus mode

[Datisi]

i'm trying to say town!you doesn't go batshit omgus mode over me here because (1) town!you knows i'm quick to scumread bullshit play like that so wouldn't be down my throat about it so fast and (2) town!you is apparently able to read me decently well and here i'm seeing none of it so

[Datisi]

like the only angle scum!you can take here is attacking me, town!you would've *Seriously* considered the idea we're tvt here

[Datisi]

not saying that, i'm saying that you know it's not going to work so you're not even bothering because it's easier to attack my credibility immediately

[Datisi]

like town!you would've bothered because town!you is aware that i'm quick to scumread shit like this and town!you *very well knows* what impact it can have on the game if we tunnel each other if we're tvt

but scum!you doens't have to waste time if he can pretend he has a solid case on me that could convince the town to kill me

[Datisi]

okay fair but my point still stands - you figured out i was town so you should know a reaction like this is nowhere out of my townrange

so the fact you come in apparently that sure i'm scum ain't a good look

[Datisi]

if you're town here,

you were setting me up to get elimmed today before you even knew what T3's alignment was

??? no i wasn't??? i was ready to locktown you if t3 flipped red lol???

[Datisi]

Maybe it's Pooky + Arc + Dwlee.

is it bad that i have like, this exact team as my current hero solve?

hey clidd, glad to see you. can you tell me what gives you townpings on me and pav?

also i'm not in a great mood tonight which is making me be very demotivated for mafia so i'm probably gonna peace out for the night and try again after getting some sleep.

[Datisi]

i got some sleep, hasn't really helped my motivation, but let's see here.

clidd and infinity are probably town? clidd seems genuinely interested in solving the game, while infinity at least somewhat cares about the game, so. though it has been a while since i've seen clidd's scumgame, would he be powerwolfing here? but clidd being scum would then necessarily make dwlee scum as well, and they'd have put both of themselves in the investigation? meh, probably(?) not. the only thing actually making me raise an eyebrow at clidd is this line:

I also disagree on the possibility of TvT between Pooky and Datisi - they're clearly TvS or (assuming good theater) SvS imo.

what makes you think we're so unlikely to be TvT, to the point where you're sooner assuming SvS?

106 - Why scum!Datisi ''planning the push'' vs town!you would be more likely than town!Datisi finding your hammer questionable/scummy? I mean, you haven't tried to meaningfully engage with T3 (before the final vote) and you haven't given any advance notice that you were going to hammer. Just trying to understand your process here.

cuz he knows scum me doesnt quickhammer on page 2

where the fuck did you pull this out from? i've seen scum!you like three times, once as a mod, once in a marathon game, once as a mod in a marathon, and in none of those games you had an opportunity to quickhammer. so, uh, how am i apparently supposed to "know" that scum!you doesn't quickhammer on page 2?

theres no way datisi goes from srs vote t3 to wow t3 is town lets kill pooky in like 5 minutes.

first of all, there was an *if* there, and sure there is, since you quickhammered on page 2 in like those 5 minutes.

still doesn't feel like pooky is attempting to actually sort me. angel's newest post still feels like coasting. the fact that she's... completely ignoring all discussion about pooky is not giving me good vibes. i'd say "surely scum wouldn't be that blatant", but i don't actually know the skill level of angel's scumgame, so.

[Datisi]

why am i town?

[Datisi]

what slip, did i miss something?

[Datisi]

not unfakeable, and i generally don't trust slips like that / consider them more a meme than anything, but noted.

[Datisi]

And assuming a Pooky townflip, it's not like you would automatically be scum (if that thought crossed your mind). I will re-evaluate, we will talk and from that point I would see if TvT really is the case or not.

that thought did cross my mind, something about chaining up misyeets. but when i thought about it, you being scum would mean that scum purposefully put two of their own into the investigation (not impossible, though i think decently unlikely), and, while "you're chaining up misyeets" is a somewhat common accusation, i don't remember seeing a game where scum was actually that blatant about it.

@Datisi

Besides me, Infinity and Pooky, what do you think about the others?

not much, i would've said something otherwise. angel is definitely my strongest scumread outside of pooky, her posts seem kind of designed to make it look like she's doing something / thinking about the game, while in reality not doing anything. i skimmed murdercat's iso, and it seemed just full of mechtalk, so yeah, not a fan. maybe i'm kind of slowly turning around on dwlee, but it's still far cry from a solid townread, as that Y-1 and reaction after it is just Not Good. also, their insistence on pooky being town doesn't sit right with me.

if i had to rank people, i guess it would be clidd > infinity > dwlee > pav > murdercat > angel > pooky. but my overall confidence on this is very low, and i don't think i'd be surprised at any flip right now.

pedit: aaaand i see pav is posting right now. i see he says "more coming", so i'll post this post now, wait until he's done, and rework the above order if necessary.

[Datisi]

i am unsure whether to go with "derp clear, angel is confirmed town" or "cognitive load making angel not get the joke, she's confirmed scum" because lmfao.

also "daitsy", really?

[Datisi]

Can anyone help with the link to the setup?

2.

this has to be fake, right? like, surely?

[Datisi]

sorry for expressing skepticism about someone's claims in a game of mafia i guess?

[Datisi]

pooky is not interacting with anything i said... sad...

[Datisi]

i asked you where the fuck are you getting the idea that "town!me should know that scum!you doesn't quickhammer on page two" because i wanted to see if that was something you pulled out of your ass

and it seems like it was?

[Datisi]

i am really not buying that town!pooky finds it that hard to believe town!me thinks that

[Datisi]

dwlee i just started to think you're town what the fuck are you doing

[Datisi]

i scumread you in like one game we played in, 960

idk what the fuck you're referring there, is that c9++? that was because i was TOWNREADING you and it was mechanically optimal to kill you because roleblocker results and i didn't want my townread on you to be wrong (which it was not)

[Datisi]

like i was open to actually listen to what you were gonna say but you kept screaming that i was setting you up and that apparently town!me doesn't ever do that so yeah uhh i don't think that's a real thought

[Datisi]

if that is talking about chara's folly, same shit, i was townreading you there and only voted you because the rest of you fucks didn't believe me that krazy was a scumfuck and you weren't the beacon of obvtowniness that was morning tweet

like genuinely what are you talking about?

[Datisi]

i am trying to see if i am wrong but you are not giving me any reason to express doubt

like the way you came into the day guns blazing that i'm scum setting you up and are spewing things like "town!datisi would know i wouldn't hammer there" ???? and not interacting with what i'm saying, tf am i supposed to think?

[Datisi]

yes
you did the obvscummy thing, the onus is on you to prove you're not scum

[Datisi]

i still feel like there's something wrong with pooky's play today. like, the emotion of "flip me whatever" feels wrong. it feels kind of misplaced? like i understand the feeling of righteousness when a person thinks they're being townie and the people are ganging up on them anyway, but like. pooky did a thing with very very obvious scum!motivation and not a lot of town one. him getting annoyed at being thought of as scum here (coupled with the fact that i objectively think he's not approaching me in good faith and not trying to interact with me sincerely), i kinda think it's supposed to be AtE?

[Datisi]

i don't know. i don't have townreads on any of angel, murdercat, or pav. i'm not too big on looking for preflip associates like this, especially since scum was aware pooky would be under fire today and probably have somewhat prepared for it.

[Datisi]

so, unless i find two people that would "make sense" as pooky's scumbuddies, i'm supposed to assume he's town? yeah, no. when the hell has mafia been so easy that the whole team "makes sense" on what is effectively day one?

[Datisi]

because i don't think that everyone has shown such negative-associates with pooky as to show that he's town because he cannot be partners with anyone here? if you wanna go in depth and explain why nobody here makes sense as a pooky partner, i'm listening.

[Datisi]

MC - casual "Pooky is the Lim" vibe

considering he's not voting him, this actually feels +partner to me, not -partner...

i don't remember how that derp vote relates to pooky, i will look at that later, gonna try to nap a bit now

[Datisi]

Arc - derp vote

can i get an eli5 on why the derp vote (whichever one you were referring to) is -partner for angel/pooky?

[Datisi]

3/16 * 5/8 / (3/8) = 5/16

This is the probability that someone is town given a guilty. The probability that they're scum is 11/16 which is about 69%

so i googled the thing, did the math myself, had different numbers, but somehow also got to 11/16 so i guess

the reason why i don't want to focus solely on "math" here is because i keep thinking of a secret hitler game i modded this last marathon. the game was steadily going towards a liberal (town) victory, and then there were two liberal governments that played fascist policies, and the game descended into chaos, because the most townread players passed fascist cards, and the only way for that to not have happened if they were town was if there were 6 fascist cards in the deck in a row. they calculated the odds of that happening, ~9%. so there must be a deepwolf. all while i was staring at the random.org rand that spat out 6 fascist cards in a row. town promptly lost that game.

i can agree that angel doesn't seem like a likely pooky partner (though i'd have to recheck if she had any other options, or if that vote was a "fuck, my other suspects are town, i have to bus here" - but that would mean she was consciously faking not knowing about the setup and voting pooky based on that, which ehh why did she not unvote pooky then?)

uuugh my head hurts. is something like mc/pooky/pav viable? maybe it is? i want to be confident on infy!town but i don't actually know the extent of her scumrange which is annoying. something rings wrong about her focusing so hard on that guilty but i feel like everyone in this game has said/done scummy shit

except for clidd, he's probably scum because he's done no scummy shit and the world hates me

[Datisi]

not opposed to mc in a vacuum, though i guess i'm getting worried about the similar problem of "who's their partner?". mostly because pooky is voting there and doesn't pooky have like a sacred oath of not bussing or something.

dwlee, you done the thinking of who could and couldn't be mc's partners here?

[Datisi]

can't misread me when you know i'm town (:

[Datisi]

just a heads up, i'm probably gonna be around less than usual today, my mental state is Not Great. will still check in here and there, but don't expect much.

mc's absence, especially when he's posting around elsewhere on-site, is concerning, to say the least. but my issue is that i kinda don't think that pooky busses mc there? like, based on nothing but the knowledge that he "never bussed in his life" or what was it that he usually says. so either that read is wrong, he's breaking his lifelong meta just for this one game, or i'm reading one the "obvscums" wrong. and uh, no enjoying either of those scenarios.

i guess there's not really much to do but wait for his return, so. cheers. let me know if i am needed.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

i think that's y-1 and i don't want any Accidents until i am able to rethink this again

ok nvm me carry on

[Datisi]

i am literally reading right now are you fucking kidding me

[Datisi]

this is what i had written up before that:

Spoiler:

okay i am back, kind of, still feeling mentally dead but i will take a break from my spyro playthrough i guess

okay, vague gamestate reads - the fact that a lot of people are going "yeah i am fine with mc" to me implies (1) he's gonna flip red (2) there's scum in the "lol yeah i guess" statements/late votes, because i kinda don't think scum does those if there's about to be a misflip?

ik it's nightless so not like i will die but i am posting it anyway becaue goddamn i literally just say down to read properly

[Datisi]

So if someone quick hammers on day 1, they officially become scum by default? This is exactly the kind of logic that makes me think that it is scum motivated I am not town reading pooky but now I am also not town reading you. Its hard for me to believe that both pooky and you are scum together. So it likely possible that one of you is town and another one is scum. Do you have any better reason to believe why pooky is scum apart from quick hammer on day 1?

this is something that i wanted to discuss before eod - you were scumreading pooky earlier as well, you were voting for him. why were you voting for him then?

but whatever, gonna talk tomorrow. i hope that flips red because my heart cannot take another 7p lylo

[Datisi]

yeah, if this flips red, i'm looking at those late votes

i mean i'm probably also gonna be dead because i kinda don't think pooky/mc are like, partnered, because i don't think pooky lolbusses there, and he's gonna rip my head off my body tomorrow if mc is red, so you know, but for when i'm dead, that's where y'all should be looking at

ofc if this is green then i'm still not gonna enjoy the game because 7p lylo but that's the game

[Datisi]

Not sure if I like or dislike Datisi's posts after hammer, but I'll have a better opinion depending on the gamestate tomorrow (and today's flip info).

they would've been before hammer had someone's hand not slipped >_>

mind you, i had another post typed up about teams with either mc flips, but i figured it's proooobably not the best idea to be posting those in twilight

i know it's only the investigation tonight, but still

[Datisi]

i think that's y-1 and i don't want any Accidents until i am able to rethink this again

i literally said "please don't end day before i'm back" but aight

[Datisi]

VOTE: angel

brain still scrambled from the weekend. actual effort coming from me tonight, if i'm still alive. agreed this likely means clidd/dwlee are t/t.

[Datisi]

@dwlee, because pooky is going to fucking murder me for that flip and i don't currently have the energy to fight him

and getting misyeeted here is gonna ruin my >year streak of not getting misflipped

[Datisi]

i never defended murdercat and that's not how i play around my partners but like i know there's not much use saying that

analysis tonight if i'm alive, going back to my spyro game, cheers

[Datisi]

actually no hold on

i kept dying in the game which made me annoyed and logging on i see angel is voting me so now i shall build a case on why she's scum with murdercat, give me a few

[Datisi]

angel is scum:

ok let's talk about the interactions between angel and murdercat

first, prior to the wagon really picking up speed:

there's 142, in which angel throws a throwaway comment about mc's 72. note that in that same post, angel attacked dwlee's 74. mc did something similar in 73, attacked dwlee's 60 where he was sussing angel. murder included a throwaway comment in 372 to angel's 278. oh, and angel had a townread on mc early in 286.

all their interactions boil down to (1) shallow questions (2) questioning someone scumreading the other (3) unexplained townreads

however, once the mc wagon actually picks up, things get spicy (so like page 19 onwards):

all of a sudden, angel says her read of mc went down too and she can settle for his yeet (bottom of 462).

now, here's the fun part. there's this part that didn't make sense to me at the time, but i did call it out in 501:

Spoiler: relevant part of 485

Actually my MC read went down too.. If not pooky, I can settle with MC for today.

Literally everyone is piling on me for no reason

Why why why are we going to elim me and not the person who hammered a townie on page 2 or the person with the guilty
I've given reasoning for all my reads, how can anyone say I'm not scum hunting

So if someone quick hammers on day 1, they officially become scum by default? This is exactly the kind of logic that makes me think that it is scum motivated I am not town reading pooky but now I am also not town reading you. Its hard for me to believe that both pooky and you are scum together. So it likely possible that one of you is town and another one is scum. Do you have any better reason to believe why pooky is scum apart from quick hammer on day 1?

this made no sense to me, because angel had been voting for pooky for like, the whole time. she did say in 142 that "All quick hammers players are not scum.", but her next mentions of pooky were saying she suspects him, scumreads him, is fine with his elimination, etc, etc. but she never gave an actual reason for scumreading pooky, she just... was scumreading him. so i think it's fair to assume that she was scumreading him for the quickhammer, since she didn't bother to offer any hot takes with the vote/scumread.

so i found it very very odd that she was suddenly calling mc out for calling pooky scum for the quickhammer. why the hell were you voting him if not for the quickhammer? but with the flip, it actually makes sense - panic distancing away from the buddy who is obviously about to go down.

also, the hammer after only 2 and a half hours of giving intent is ridiculous. it feels tmi.

also also, why is angel voting me today? because... i was off wagon? when i unvoted pooky when he got to y-1, and called for more time when i was taking a mini-v/la? and like, how is pav your second choice?? why are you ignoring infinity here, who was actively wagoning pooky the whole time???

looking at that ^^, the votecounts, and giving pav's iso a 15 second skim, i'd say infinity is the third one (but also reckon infinity will be readable by effort, because i imagine scum!infinity will not be very energetic here). followed by pav, followed by god fucking help me someone turbobussed again. maybe i'll actually give this a proper read at some point if i'm still about to die, who knows idk. maybe not.

pedit: i did not read that case and i will not be rewriting this now, will read and respond later

[Datisi]

ok, so angel's case on me boils down to

- datisi was pushing pooky the whole game
- datisi said he doesn't think angel and pooky are partners
- datisi said he doesn't townread any of mc, angel, or pav
- datisi was calling out my nonsense distance post with murdercat and showed emotion
- datisi said he was going to get killed by pooky after pooky explicitly said he will want to kill datisi if murder flipped red

this is a joke lol the first point is the only one that makes any goddamn sense

actually no hold on

i kept dying in the game which made me annoyed and logging on i see angel is voting me so now i shall build a case on why she's scum with murdercat, give me a few

So you want to build a case because i am voting you.

Not because you think i am scum. Thanks for adding points to why you're the last remaining scum.

nope, i voted you first, but your vote on me is what pissed me off enough to sit down and write what i was thinking, learn how to read

[Datisi]

So you're implying that i hammered my partner when i can focus on pushing Pooky wagon which was super easy for me at that moment? Why didn't you vote MC despite you express your suspects about them?

but you did... push pooky... you were constantly pushing pooky. what the fuck are you talking about.

you only started distancing from mc after there was a 3-person wagon on him and he was becoming obvscum. and you hammered once you saw that that there's not enough votes for a pooky misyeet. like.

i didn't vote him because i needed more time to think if i was confident enough on mc being town to risk a 7p lylo today. like. you're trying to claim some high ground here for hammering murdercat after it was obvious he was gonna flip and it's hilarious

[Datisi]

Can everyone give the next three people they'd kill if they had dictatorial control over the elimination. The goal: hit one scum.

angel > infinity > pav. if both angel and infinity flipped green, i'd probably take a Good Look at both you and pooky, but i think i'd end up flipping pav. i don't think either of you/pooky make any sense as scum here, so.

also, only now did i realize that clidd is conftown by those investigatives. fun stuff.

[Datisi]

pooky has a sacred oath of Not Bussing, as far as i'm aware. i don't think he busses murdercat there.

[Datisi]

You have pooky as less likely scum because of buss? not sure if I'm following.

pooky pushed mc, mc flipped scum. i don't think pooky would bus mc there. so pooky is probably town.

nothing happened to it. i still think it's scummy as shit. but like. i now think "town!pooky lolhammered" is more likely than "scum!pooky bussed", because one of those statements has to be true.

of course, this could be a 9000 iq plan by pooky to bus mc (bus for the first? time in god knows how long, maybe ever) to then chain up misyeets like that, but idk, i doubt it.

[Datisi]

Dwlee, who do want to vote out then?

[Datisi]

Idk normally when I catch a baddie I have this feeling of anticipation and here I'm just a bit dread y'know. Does scum not fight harder there?

ok, but then the question still remains - if angel is not scum, then who is? and clearing people for a dumbtell still feels like a bad idea

[Datisi]

ngl i find it kind of concerning you did not say anything else today other than hammering

[Datisi]

me being town doesn't imply angel being scum, so i'm kinda hmm, but i'm gonna hope that i was right

[Datisi]

wouldn't it be funny if i

VOTE: infinity

[Datisi]

But then Datisi is like.. ''Ok, I'll vote there and go afk''.

i went to have dinner and go for a walk, can you not? be here in ~30 minutes if you need me for Real Time Chatting

[Datisi]

ok so

the idea is that we have two misyeets, clidd/dwlee are town, and me/pooky are not a team - yeet infinity and pav in either order, either game is over or gain a misflip, in which case we can vote out both datisi and pooky? i'm fine with that, i can review dwlee again later but i really don't think they play around mc the way they did, they're townie on play elsewise, and also the results. also why do they do this as scum.

when i got into the day, i saw that both pooky and infinity are kinda angling for a pav yeet, and it did occur to me that the two of them are trying to set up pav > datisi, because for the team of the two of them, that is p much the only path they *can* take. however if we go with the above, it doesn't really matter i guess

i'm probably gonna crash semi-soon so if anyone wants to chat, most likely see ya then. but i'm still around for some yet-undecided amount of time

[Datisi]

y

[Datisi]

Idk, I think it's interesting that pav/infinity are cross voting and you and Pooky are taking opposite sides.

interesting in what way?

[Datisi]

i have never rolled scum in my life

but uhh yeah at this point in the game i'm like either (1) infinity/pav are a team - seems unlikely (2) pooky is scum - would make sense with his play yesterday but damn was that bus necessary or (3) dwlee is scum - fucking kill me now

i really hope it's not (3) i am actively ignoring any possibility of it being (3)

[Datisi]

pooky, can you give us your opinion on dwlee's plan

[Datisi]

pooky would you agree to a Blood Pact of yeeting both infy and pav and then yeeting the two of us if game not end

do you trust in the dwlee

[Datisi]

which one of you is throwing right now, the fuck

[Datisi]

yeah, pooky and i decided to play around it when he hammered on page 2, plan has been foiled >_>

[Datisi]

i didn't check if meme scumclaims are against the rules, pls don't kill me umlaut

[Datisi]

one day pooky, one day

[Datisi]

i still think that is the most likely one to flip green but

we're yeeting infy tomorrow right?

[Datisi]

we are not but i have nightmares where it's infy/pooky and this flips green and the two of them convince clidd and you to yeet me tomorrow

[Datisi]

surely, SURELY this isn't some dumb fuckery like pooky/dwlee

like surely the universe doesn't hate me THAT much

[Datisi]

which one of you fucks is throwing right now oh my god

[Datisi]

okay so what the fuck is happening. pooky agreed to yeet pav. but we know pooky isn't a gamethrower. so...

(1) this is pooky/dwlee. they quickyeeted on d1, then hardbussed on d2 to coast to the win. and also dwlee got lucky with the invest rolls. in this universe, even if i got clidd and pav to yeet pooky today, we'd still probably end up getting fucked over by scum!dwlee.

(2) this is pooky/pav. pooky is banking the whole game on me thinking that it's (1) and having a stroke, so that he can call back to his 690 and hit me with a fire extinguisher for the win.

and i guess the comical third option of (3) pav/dwlee, where pooky and i are destined to rip each other apart tomorrow, only for one of us to flip green and for the other to realize that the game is far beyond salvation. cute, but probably not.

clidd help

[Datisi]

i thought i was already scum to you? what's the point in saying "if datisi doesn't vote there he's scum"?

i should not be interacting here but here we are

[Datisi]

what is there to say

scum is doing some bullfuckery and i have no energy to try to figure out how likely is it that dwlee is scum here so i would rather just follow clidd like the dumb sheep that i am

[Datisi]

clidd, how likely do you think pooky/dats is? while i'm definitely not gonna object to pooky going today, especially if you're convinced that dwlee is always town (so if they're scum it literally doesn't matter anyway), the plan from yesterday did hinge on going through infinity and pav first, on the basis of the two of us not being teamed. and i really don't feel like listening to pooky yelling at me in that 1v1 >_>

[Datisi]

I'll take a look at this tomorrow ^

For now we just elim Pooky.

i mean, once pooky flips red, it doesn't matter, town gets an extra misyeet and you can murder both me and pav.

let me know if you need anything from me.

[Datisi]

? i'm not frozen lol, i just have nothing to say to your throwing accusations

[Datisi]

oh my fucking god

if this is how we lose i'm going to screech

[Datisi]

i am getting this sinking feeling that this is actually dwlee/pooky and that this game is far beyond repair

dwlee, why am i now lower than pooky? and like, wasn't pav the lowest for you?

[Datisi]

/shrug

if clidd is truly never budging on dwlee, i'm fine voting pav and hammertesting that. at least in that cursed world, we'd be out of it sooner.

[Datisi]

The "Dwlee can be scum" doesn't make sense lol

consider this from my perspective. you have a blood pact between me and pooky, that we're yeeting infinity and then pav, and then the two of us. this wa explicitly agreed on, with pooky saying that he wants to go along with that plan. once infinity flipped green, it meant that something is fucky there, because pooky would never intentionally gamethrow.

either (1) the team is actually pooky/dwlee, and going infy > pav is fine and dandy for them

or (2) it's pooky/pav, snd pooky is basically banking everything on either me thinking it's (1), having a stroke, so that he can call back to the pact and kill me, or either one of the "conftowns" having a change of heart. and with dwlee all of a sudden protecting pooky, even though they historically considered me townier (at least at one time, don't remember if there was an update to that), you really blame me for thinking about (1)?

[Datisi]

angel doesn't spew me shit because she was town and just as uninformed as the rest of us. her flipping green means nothing, and her case on me is still awful.

[Datisi]

he's shutting up and trying to not get attention on him while pooky is negotiating

[Datisi]

Dats if you feel that way vote pav? What's your issue?

i don't know what's my issue, i want clidd's blessing before i do anything.

[Datisi]

Okay but datisi also said she wanted infinity eliminated before you yesterday. Why does she do that if you're not a team? Datisi also feel free to answer this.

who is she?

[Datisi]

i did that because i thought infinity had higher odds of being scum than pav. iirc, she started getting less active around that time (which i expected of scum in that environment), and i thought pav's vote for murdercat was an unnecessary bus, while infy was sitting on pooky and did a weak "intent to hammer" after mc's wagon was a practically done deal.

the first point in 790 is kinda bad, like pooky was saying that as "if i die today and i'm green, don't kill datisi immediately", but like if you think it's me/pooky, then that doesn't make any sense as a point against us, because in that world, pooky is red, and nobody is gonna listen to him anyway.

and uhh... we're scum because we... joked with each other? do i have to go digging through my old towngames to find instances of town!me doing that?

[Datisi]

I am struggling to picture a world in which Datisi and Pooky are teamed up, but I think the vote to take today is the easier one.

Pooky I guess

VOTE: pavowski

I was already prepared to vote this slot today for the general wishy-washiness of the last couple days, and this feels the same, "eh, I guess that slot is towny so I'll vote over here"

VOTE: Infinity

and like, this is the post where pav agreed to the "pact", there's no thought of who benefits form it, just a bland "yeah i can't really see that team, sure".

[Datisi]

lol, what does scum!me gain from purposefully being difficult here and not hammertesting dwlee? because i really wanna piss clidd off? or i wanna piss dwlee off instead?

[Datisi]

i dunno, i didn't feel like it.

and pav is trying to tell pooky that i'm scummy even though he just said how he's sure we're partners because...? that makes sense...?

VOTE: pav

if there is any chance left in the universe that this is actually pooky/dwlee, i hope to fuck, because that would truly be a fitting ending

[Datisi]

fuck

fucking fuck

now the game is actually not completely and truly lost yet and i actually have to try

[Datisi]

i've already said what i could, i thought there was a genuine chance of you being scum because i knew that pooky was surface-level gamethrowing by agreeing to the blood pact, and i know he's not a gamethrower. so either (1) he wasn't actually scum (which would mean you are) or (2) he was gonna pull some bs today to save pav. and like, the only thing he could do here is hope that i fuck up somehow so he could appeal to you two. and pooky and pav came into today hardpushing each other because they knew that if they appear unaligned the odds of me dying increases by a lot. but this bs is kinda wifom anyways so

[Datisi]

I mean just town tell harder than pav or something if you're town. Idk I'm pretty sold that it's just you two but like Pooky is playing very interestingly if he is scum and pav is his partner and not you dats.

he's playing interesting sure. if we yeet pav today, i don't care about dying tomorrow.

[Datisi]

I am struggling to picture a world in which Datisi and Pooky are teamed up, but I think the vote to take today is the easier one.

Pooky I guess

VOTE: pavowski

I was already prepared to vote this slot today for the general wishy-washiness of the last couple days, and this feels the same, "eh, I guess that slot is towny so I'll vote over here"

VOTE: Infinity

and like, this is the post where pav agreed to the "pact", there's no thought of who benefits form it, just a bland "yeah i can't really see that team, sure".

Where do you see me agreeing to any kind of pact? I'm pointing out that Infinity's response is weak, I don't say anything about future votes

The pact I'm talking about is the one that involved you and Pooky and a fire extinguisher

you're literally saying "i struggle to see pooky/dats a team" when the plan was lined out in 640, a few posts prior. you telling me you just "didn't see the plan" and randomly commented on me/pooky being unaligned?

[Datisi]

i'm still present, if anyone cares.

[Datisi]

At the time, I didn't see you as a team. I don't see the problem with me saying that at the time, I've been saying from the start today that I didn't think you were teamed. But now that you are aligned against me, it's pretty hard for me to not conclude that you are teamed

You and Pooky are voting me right now, kinda says it all

the issue was that *at the time*, if you didn't see us as a team, you were clearly responding to dwlee's plan, because again you don't just randomly mention that without reading dwlee's post 5 posts ago, right? which was the same post that lined out the plan. i don't think it makes any sense for you to agree to "i don't think pooks/dats are teamed" but also not read that plan (which was in the same post) or not agree with it (because you didn't say anything implying that).

[Datisi]

jesus what a dick move

[Datisi]

hi ythan you're conftown please don't kill me thank you

[Datisi]

and if we get one scum, we win, because nightless and two confirmed townies. pav is like. super scum. one of you should hammer him.

[Datisi]

aight. will be around if you need me.

[Datisi]

i got slapped with a prod, sorry umlaut but i'm sure you understand

pav is still scum, his explanation for agreeing that me/pooky aren't teamed but not acknowledging dwlee's plan (that was in the same post) is asspull garbage and earlier on he was trying to get pooky to see that i'm scum even tho from his own words the two of us are buddies

hesitance around mc and pooky on d2 was bc he wasn't sure which one of his buddies was gonna eat shit that day and he wanted to make sure not to fall on the wrong (i.e. not flipped) side of the conflict there

also *also* this explains why murdercat died on day 2 even though there were multiple townies wanting pooky dead (even if you don't buy town!me - angel, infinity, clidd) that's MORE than enough for scum to pile on and kill town!pooky (so why didn't they? bc he's also scum)

like i haven't played 3v6 nightless setups before but i've modded them twice, and in both of those runs, scum's strategy was to Not Bus and Vote Together, so i think it's fair to assume they'd have done the same here, and would've tried to save murdercat if they were able to swing it onto town!pooks

they had the numbers but they didn't because the wagons were actually scum/scum and it was the matter of getting rid of the weaker buddy rather than turning it onto innocent town!pooky

[Datisi]

and before pooky gets in here and starts screaming how i'm suddenly pushing him instead of pav and tries to turn it onto me - nope, i'm towncasing myself by showing the team is pooky/pav but you don't really have to buy it, i am still voting pav and want him dead and if you're more confident on pav/datisi for the love of fuck help me bus then

pedit: oh cool i was town

looking forward to my death tomorrow

[Datisi]

i am still 100% town and if this was a drawn out scumplay of dwlee/pooky i am going to murder you irl

but i will gladly accept my death tomorrow if that guarantees pooky dies in f3 because pav/dwlee is my next memeiest solve that i would be fine with

[Datisi]

if this was pooky/dats i would be celebrating right now. it is not. you can ask umlaut.

[Datisi]

now i'm actually thinking of this being pooks/dwlee with them absolutely hating our guts and fuckign with us here, umlaut pls lock before i make a fool of myself in twilight again

[Datisi]

lol

i once did something like that in 5p lylo and then i got slapped with a surprice vengeful + vigilante combo and promptly lost the game

teaches you real well to not quickhammer as scum anymore

[Datisi]

obviously this is an open game so not applicable, but i tell that story any chance i get because my god was it traumatic

[Datisi]

I read the end of that one! Gypyx modded it right? I think it is all just about reading the mech state. If you're missing too much town power you should know to be wary.

we weren't missing town power, we vanilla copped that player, then attempted to kill him and failed, so from there we correctly concluded he was bulletproof

it just so happened that he wasn't *just* bulletproof lol

[Datisi]

What about the vigilante?

knew there was a vig, but we would've won so it wouldn't have mattered

if we hadn't hammered the vengeful lol

ok i'll stop being a salty fuck now

[Datisi]

i am trying really, *really* hard to keep my mouth shut here and not go all "but what if dwlee is somehow against all odds the deepwolf here even though i made the whole ass case on why pooky would've died on d2 had he been town and dwlee has been playing really protown and pav's stances around the investigation make sense with it being on two townies and they did nothing to save pav yesterday and and and" because i am genuinely terrified of pooky *somehow* flipping green and me having to bear the burden of being the cause for the lost game tomorrow

but like i said before, if dwlee is scum it would be against all odds and n that universe the game has been fucked for a long long time

VOTE: pooky

ythan if you need to like, talk or recap anything lemme know

[Datisi]

i might self hammer just to see it actually but ive never selfhammered in my life

excuse me

[Datisi]

ythan blease

[Datisi]

ye that looked like a scum quickhammer

[Datisi]

i have been requesting fast night since like night 2, idk the fuck y'all been doing

but unless all my nightmares have come to life, should be gg

[Datisi]

i can't believe we didn't use this opportunity for another toxic shitfight

[Datisi]

I thought it would be funny to give Datisi a heart attack

thanks, it did scare me really well, but then i remembered you also played in the game where mena did the same thing, so i had this glimmer of hope that you're trolling me, and here we are

[Datisi]

sorry pooky <3

gotta say i feel like scum was robbed here. they enter 5p lylo with two practically confirmed townies, one townie thinks it's datisi/pooky, the other thinks it's datisi/pav... and then one of them replaces out lol ecks dee

[Datisi]

like that swung in my favour and made me keep my non-misyeeted streak but that replaceout was a dick move there and i'd probably be pissed as scum here

gg thank for mod umlaut

i like the idea behind the setup but agree it probably swings too townsided right now

[Datisi]

not wanting to play is one thing but i'm generally of the thought thatbif you signed up for a mafia game you need to finish it because replacements ruin game integrity

and i think it's pretty blatant how the replacement influenced the game here

[Datisi]

what pooky said

manipulating specific people in specifics ways is like, a scum skill, and not an easy one, and they basically had all that effort wasted because clidd didn't want to finish this game

idk, if you don't wanna play the game tough shut sucks to be you, but if there's no irl emergency or the game isn't actively harming your mental state i feel like you have an obligation to both your fellow players and the moderator

[Datisi]

i think this could be an interesting MD topic

i really think what clidd did here was unsportsmanlike *at best*

[Datisi]

and this doesn't?

obviously nobody is stopping people from repping out, or can stop that, but i feel like it would be important to have a more "you need to finish what you started" atmosphere

like replacing out should be the last resort imo

[Datisi]

@umlaut, no dead thread?

[Datisi]

site should punish replaceouts in some capacity imho

saying both as a player and a frequent game moderator

[Datisi]

To me, clidd had lost interest in the game to the point that if scum won it wouldn't have been a deserved win because he had essentially stopped playing.

/shrug, i agree that situation is not ideal either

arguably speaking, if clidd had stayed in the game (and this is just an example, not implying clidd would do this) and said "i don't want to play i'll vote whatever", there could be an argument made that that is playing against wincon

i think the best solution would be to promote the importance of ~properly finishing a game you signed up for if possible~, but i'll be the first to admit i have no clue how to do that in practice

[Datisi]

To me it's just as much of a problem that players keep playing when they shouldn't than players replacing out when they shouldn't, if not more.

i feel like i've seen the unnecessary repouts more than unnecessary stayings, but that might be because i feel like "game stamina" (or how long a player can keep their head in a given game) is itself a feature of a player in the game of mafia

though take it with a grain of salt, maybe you've seen much worse things than i have

[Datisi]

fwiw, clidd, i don't want to avoid future games with you because i genuinely do enjoy playing with you

i don't think the rep-out was a Good Thing (at least for the game), but maybe my own perception of it is skewed because, while i do believe in "you signed up for it, power through it", pretty much every game i personally play is an utter mess to me by lategame so maybe i'm used to "powering through it"

i hope you didn't take anything what i said personally, it wasn't meant as personal, it's a sorta site culture thing that i've been thinking about for a while now for which this was a spark to start the discussion