Mini 624 - Game Over!

[Wumbo]

But of course! I actually don't have any homework tonight... woo

I don't see any dialogue in any of your posts that would lead me to believe that you are scum. I toyed with the idea that you're just a really intelligent scum player, and the sacrifice on SC was to gain my trust, but we fought far too long for it to add up.

Gerain on the other hand, uses the same tired logic from the beginning of the game. I came into forum mafia not knowing a lot of how it went down, and as you can see, my playstyle has drastically, dare i say, improved, since the start of the game. I don't "lurk" per se anymore, yet gerain continues to bring up the point which I think by now is moot. His posts have little if any relevance to the issue at hand and are at most vague blanket statements.

Also, this line bugs me:

i hate being so frustrated that the game could end up as a waste of time after this long.

Maybe he's just a blue that comes off as particularly scummy, as Cass did. But I'm gonna stick with my gut and my reasoning... it's been pretty solid so far. The vote'll stay.

[geraintm]

Gerain on the other hand, uses the same tired logic from the beginning of the game.
I came into forum mafia not knowing a lot of how it went down, and as you can see, my playstyle has drastically, dare i say, improved, since the start of the game. I don't "lurk" per se anymore, yet gerain continues to bring up the point which I think by now is moot. His posts have little if any relevance to the issue at hand and are at most vague blanket statements.

that isn't fair wumbo. i went through yours and mine posts and votes. even if i wasn't sure you were scum, your voting record to me just needs you to explain and you haven't.
i only brought up the lurking thing again - which you admit - because someone else pointed it out aswell.
i mention the lurking thing because i hate how i gave you such a free reign in the start of the game to lie low.

Maybe he's just a blue that comes off as particularly scummy, as Cass did. But I'm gonna stick with my gut and my reasoning... it's been pretty solid so far. The vote'll stay.

you do realise that if you were town, then i have to be scum, just from the fact that i haven't been hammered. i can't work out why you are still acting like you aren't 100% sure i am scum. there is no way in your world that i can be anything other than red, i can't be a blue acting scummy as that would make batt red and he would have lynched me.

[Battousai]

I've been trying to figure out why I was kept over Cass. I really wanted it to be me, cass, and whoever. That way I would be confident in lynching the third person, as I felt after yesterday, that she was a townie. Was Cass more of a threat than I was? Was I kept alive because the scum wanted me to lynch Geraintm, or for me to think that.

If I don't vote now, I don't think I ever will lol, so......



the game ends in a ____ victory,

Vote: Geraintm

[Wumbo]

HOORAY! SCUM WINS! SCUM WINS!


Just kidding. Town wins. I think.

[geraintm]

dammit, mafia doesn't win

[Battousai]

Geraintm: You played a great game. The only reason I was able to lynch you was not YOUR play, but play by your teammates.


Also: I told ya Wumbo wasn't scum

[Wumbo]

Woot woot!

I didn't know DWS was scum, but at least I got SC and Geraintm XD

I could have sworn Cass was scum, though. How did you know she was town, batt?

[geraintm]

sorry, i misspoke in my post
i am not mafia
that is why i said dammit

[Battousai]

Elementry, my dear Watson.

SC was trying to get Cass lynched pretty hard yesterday after she gave up a bit on me and you. I think the fact that Cass might have been lynched yesterday if we decided to let the power roles live another night, pushed SC to urge us to lynch Cass over her.

[Hypatia]

And that is, indeed, a lynch. Confident that they have located the last mafia member, the two remaining townies gang up on geraintm, only to find that he is not mafia at all! Instead, he is a serial killer.

TOWN WINS.

1. Cass

Tom

- Townie
2. Wumbo - Townie
3. imaginality - Townie

4. Inspector Godot - Mafia Goon

5. chenhsi - Town Cop

(Sane)

6. Dark wingstalker - Mafia Godfather

7. nhat - Town Forensic Investigator
8. maxwellhouse - Town Cop

(Paranoid)

9. StrangerCoug - Mafia Goon

10. Battousai

Kenfucius

- Town Cop

(Naive)

11. geraintm - Serial Killer

12. Litral - Townie

A more detailed writeup, as well as my apologies, is forthcoming later tonight. Discuss.

[imaginality]

Woohoo, we win! Well played town!

Especially Battousai and Wumbo for finding good reasons to vote geraintm.

Nice to see I was right about DWS being scum, though having our paranoid cop investigate the Godfather has to count as a stroke of luck, but that probably balances out with the fact that it was our sane cop we mislynched day 1 rather than the naive or paranoid one.

I enjoyed following the progress of this game, it was a good read and I thought both sides played pretty solidly. StrangerCoug did well to recover from that momentary slip-up when he as good as admitted "okay I'm a lying scum" to survive another day.

geraintm's strategy fooled me, at least. I was wondering who the fourth mafia member was rather than looking for an SK. I can see how that could have worked successfully for him if either Battousai or Wumbo had looked a bit less town...

Good stuff.

[StrangerCoug]

I thought that I had a traitor on my side when my lynch didn't end the game.

Good game

[Battousai]

How is geraintm a SK, unless scum and sk kill everyother night.

[imaginality]

Not all SKs are compulsive. A very relevant link is this thread discussing the tactic of deliberately not-killing as SK, which is exactly what (I'm assuming) geraintm decided to try?

[StrangerCoug]

How is geraintm a SK, unless scum and sk kill everyother night.

We the Mafia always killed as long as we were alive.

[Litral]

Well, geraintm was close to winning He would've won if I were in Battousai's place.

This game tells me not to depend on "town-tells" I imagine I picked up. Also, not to defend anyone unless really necessary. Almost got me lynched.

Geraintm, why didn't you try to kill at six left?

Out of the five lynches we actually had we did four good lynches. That's pretty nice.

[Hypatia]

ROLES

Cass

Tom

, Wumbo, Imaginality, and Litral received the following:

You are a TOWNIE. You use your wits and your vote to rid the town of scum. You have no night actions.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

chenhsi, maxwellhouse, and Battousai

Kenfucius

received:

You are a COP. Each night you may investigate one player by PMing me their name. You will receive a result from me.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Chenhsi was sane, maxwellhouse paranoid, and Battousai naive.

nhat received:

You are a FORENSIC INVESTIGATOR. Each night you may PM me the name of a player who was killed on the previous night. You will receive a list of all the players who ever targeted that player. You cannot investigate lynched players, and you cannot investigate a player who was killed before the night previous to the night of your investigation. (So for example, you will not be able to investigate Night 1. On Night 2, you could investigate a player killed Night 1; on Night 3, a player killed Night 2; and so forth.)

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

The Forensic Investigator would not find any fingerprints from the SK.

Darkwingstalker received:

You are the MAFIA GODFATHER, the leader of the mafia. Your goons are Inspector Godot and StrangerCoug. You may converse with them by PM at night. Each night YOU, as the godfather, may PM me the name of a player you want killed and the name of the mafia member who will make the kill. (You are allowed to make a kill as well.) If you die, Inspector Godot will be in charge of sending in the kill, and then StrangerCoug. You may also allow one of your goons to make the choice if you will be away, but your choice takes precedence, then Godot's, then StrangerCoug.

As the godfather, you are immune to investigations.

You win when the mafia control a majority of the votes or nothing can prevent you from doing so.

Inspector Godot and StrangerCoug received:

You are a MAFIA GOON. Your godfather is Dark wingstalker. Your co-goon is StrangerCoug/Inspector Godot. You may converse with them by PM at night. Each night the godfather may PM me the name of a player you want killed and the name of the mafia member who will make the kill. If the GF dies, Inspector Godot will be in charge of sending in the kill, and then StrangerCoug.

You win when the mafia control a majority of the votes or nothing can prevent you from doing so.[/i]

geraintm received:

You are a SERIAL KILLER. Each night you may PM me the name of a player you want to kill. You are immune to investigations. You are also immune to one nightkill in the course of the game.

You win when you are the last player alive in the game or nothing can prevent this.

[Hypatia]

NIGHT ACTIONS:

Night One

Maxwellhouse investigates Dark Wingstalker (Guilty result)
Battousai investigates geraintm (Innocent result)
Inspector Godot kills imaginality.

Night Two

Maxwellhouse investigates litral (Guilty)
Battousai investigates Cass (Innocent)
nhat investigates imaginality (Targeted by: Inspector Godot)
StrangerCoug kills Maxwellhouse

Night Three

Battousai investigates litral (Innocent)
StrangerCoug kills nhat

Night Four

Battousai investigates StrangerCoug (innocent)
StrangerCoug kills litral

Night Five

Nothing.

Night Six

Battousai investigates Wumbo (innocent)
geraintm kills Cass

[Hypatia]

And now my thoughts.

First, I am so happy to see good play from all concerned. I have been playing on another forum that frustrates me immensely in so many ways, and has basically burned me out on mafia for the forseeable future. This is rarely the case at mafiascum. A special congratulations to the town on their scumhunting.

Secondly, addressing the SK situation. I had become intrigued with the idea of doing a game with a Forensic Investigator character. However, a Forensic Investigator has a good chance to net a scum in a one-for-one trade unless there are multiple bodies floating around each day; hence the necessity of a second killing party. I toyed with the idea of having a compulsive vig but decided to go with a serial killer. Because I like to give my players flexibility in their playstyle, I made the SK role say:

Each night you may PM me the name of a player you want to kill.

Emphasis on

may

. I expected that the SK would choose to forgo a night or two of killing and claim vig. I did not realize what geraintm was doing until Night 2, at which point it was far too late to retroactively change the rules (even if it were ethical to do such a thing--and since the game was not completely broken, I could not). I realize that this changed the game immensely from the way I had predicted it being played; and I also worried that, in the event of a geraintm win, town players would feel unjustly cheated in being beaten by a SK who would come out of nowhere.

This is NOT a reflection on geraintm's play in this game; his strategy was a perfectly ethical and very effective means of play within the rules I had given him. Rather, it is a reflection on my shortsightedness in failing to forsee this possibility and the drastic effects it could have on the game--for example, Mafia are seldom helped by the presence of a SK, but they were hurt in this game by the SK's "absence". I hope that, in the discussion threads, moderators can figure out a solution to this conundrum.

[StrangerCoug]

How would you have changed the rules to take geraintm's play into account?

[Cass]

I was completely unsurprised at being the nightkill there. It cleared Batt even more, but I would have had a hard time choosing between geraint and Wumbo. Good game, geraint. And I can't believe we almost let SC get away with that

[geraintm]

Hiya
first thing
why didn't i kill night 5
well, the game went to night over a weekend and i din't have access over the weekends. I didn't have a chance to get in an action

I sent this to mod night one
"tonight i am going to do nothing
i am going to be a good boy and sit on my hands
which kills me, i've never been a serial killer before, and i am not using it!"

night two
"i am going to go ahead and say do nothing again tonight
2 nights and no kills Sad
i think my plan is to kill tomorrow night
and my claim will be like one shot town vigilante
and see if i can get away with that"

night 3
"yeah, another mafia gone, town isnt bad in this game, or else mafia suck, or else with all the investigation roles you have put in, anyone who is out at night is going to find it hard.

glad imaginality came up vanilla, will give me a claim later. i was starting to fear that everyone in this game was a cop of some sort.

so, in interests of keeping a low profile, i will do nothing again tonight.
my plan at the moment is to really do nothing, at all, until i have to
i really want to be investigated at some point, or tracked or anything, so that some point soon someone will say i am clear"

and by this point my aim was to sit there and try and wait the game out.
my role said i couldn't be night killed, so i thought as long as i kept my nose clean i might live long enough where i could come out of nowhere to win. the roles that had been claimed i was thinking it was porbably best not to do anything.
being investigated so early i hoped would be good, but by the time we found out there were so many cops it became worthless.
it was horrible being a SK (this was my first time) and not using it, the longer it went on though the more confident i felt about it.

i missed night 5, i thought people would have guessed it was me as it was a weekend, at least a clue.
i ended up killing cass because i thought an endgame with wumbo in it was my best chance, got that wrong though. i thought i did look pretty town though, i really did think my voting record was very good. dont think i've ever been such a good "townie"

Did no one in the game think there would be a SK?

Mod, don't apologise for the way the game went. I don't think there will ever be a game of Mafia which goes exactly as the mod planned We do our best to find loop holes and wierd cases every time

[Hypatia]

How would you have changed the rules to take geraintm's play into account?

If I were running this game again, I would have mandated that the SK kill at least every other night.

[geraintm]

seems unfair. mafia don't have to kill every night, town doesnt have to lynch every night...

[Battousai]

town never lynches at night

But with the sk killing everyother night, it makes the mafia weaker (chance of being NK'd) and a shorter game (more deaths per night). I believe that would make up for the fact that a second killing party is discovered by the town. With that rule set, I could definately see the SK claiming compulsive vig once two scum were killed and asking for the town's input on who to kill (essentially two lynches/mislynches).

This is why I like to mod my games twice on different sites. The first is the beta in which I find bugs the players find and the second game is much better.