White flag #824 game over

[cyrus62]

hey @

MOD

I think you missed my vote for Flea in 367, I'm not voting goats anymore

thank you it is fixed now

[goats]

the tentative/fencey way he's since approached it that goats/Infinity are calling out I could imagine being scum unsure how to play around me

to try to explain this better cause I phrased it poorly cause tired, I vibe with what Infinity is pointing out that Dwlee said he townread me but didn't have any followup or questioning towards goats to further sort whether goats' push was town-motivated. I could see that being scum that doesn't want to vote on the wagon and look dirty if it goes through but at the same time isn't necessarily invested in slowing momentum of goats pushing the wagon - that hesitance of 'wanting the wagon to go through without me on it' is what I mean by "play around me"

lollll when did i become so town to you that you're pushing people i callout and insinuating that i am a townie that scum is trying to egg on

[goats]

Also regarding you and goats it just isn't a priority for me to figure out right now. Neither of you are up for lim today and there's no point in me putting in effort with less information when I can do it with more later

vote GL and he'll be up for lim. we still have lots of time left

[Dwlee99]

I don't want him up for lim.

[goats]

how come?

[Dwlee99]

More info will help us read him later in the game. Right now I think we hit scum limming in bugs/murdercat

[Flea The Magician]

Weekend prods suck.

@Mod v/la most weekends

[Flea The Magician]

hey @

MOD

I think you missed my vote for Flea in 367, I'm not voting goats anymore

thank you it is fixed now

GL wasn't voting for me in 367
That's Datisi voting murdercat.

@Mod can we have an up to date and correct votecount please. I am a salty bean and it's time to season.

[Datisi]

no, he was. guiltylion's post links to 376, which is my vote against murdercat. but 367 is his vote against you.

[Datisi]

speaking of which, where tf is murdercat.

[Flea The Magician]

well thats just misleading.

#maorsalt.

[cyrus62]

VOTE: Flea the Magician

I think if goats is town, Flea is the most likely scum setting up to jump on the freebie ML wagon and trying to do just enough to make sure it looks Good and Justified

@flea my vc is correct thank you

[Flea The Magician]

Hey information I had at the time told me it was wrong.

I ain't appreciative of mislinked posts which show me things are different and adjusted around what looks to be misleading at the time on a surface skim.

[goats]

More info will help us read him later in the game. Right now I think we hit scum limming in bugs/murdercat

that's a cop out answer and now I think you're partners again

GL has posted repeatedly this day phase and the case against as well as for him has been hashed out in great detail. how do you have no way to read him whatsoever?

[Flea The Magician]

anyway, prod responded to, I'm going back to what I was doing.

[Dwlee99]

Goats can you reread my post!

[Dwlee99]

Oops, ! -> ?

[goats]

i reread it

still don't get why you aren't making an effort to sort GL when he has so much content this day phase to read into and want to just sit back and let info in future days help you read him

[Dwlee99]

I'm not gonna get nightkilled. I have bigger scumreads. It's a waste of time

[implosion]

@implosion + MURDERCAT: aside from the people who are clearly against it and Not_Mafia, y’all are the only two to not do my thing yet. Would you like to pick some people or are you opting out?

Doing this is semi-indistinguishable from my normal playstyle to a degree. I usually find some hard townreads early and never really re-evaluate them until later. You and maybe like, Infinity are at that point. So do with that what you will.

re: 299

if you think GL is not partners with Dwlee but has independent scum equity then you should be a lot less willing to give him cred for 299. b/c getting frustrated and throwing out a bunch of meta links to prove your accusers wrong is something that scum who is caught for the wrong reasons could easily say, too. in a world where GL is scum but not with Dwlee and he's upset that I'm suspecting him for being paired with Dwlee when he's really not... he might easily have that reaction and try to use meta to rebut the part of my accusation he actually can.

While this is partially true I also think GL is a good enough player to realize that getting these receipts does basically nothing for him in the face of people who are saying he's independently scummy. Like, it's not the actual getting of the receipts that is townish, it's the indignation.

I'm somewhat offput by goats's arc on GL at this point; in particular 351 is extremely out-for-blood in a world where quite a few people (me, datisi, infinity) that were not on goats's scumdar (in fact, this is exactly the list that they used to reinforce their point in 309) were starting to flip on GL. It's a little odd to me that, while they are trying to convince us that GL is still scum, they're not really acknowledging that there is real reason to have divested from GL suspicion. I'm not saying they themselves need to but the "I want to see who's on counterwagons" line is a bit strong. Even if it is like somewhat sardonic based on the 2nd line of the post.

[Dwlee99]

To add on to my above post: if we hit scum, living associatives are much stronger due to the setup. This will help us sort slots.

[implosion]

Alright. All caught up.

I feel reasonably good about calling town:

Gamma, Dwlee, Infinity.


I feel less solid but still want to call town:

Datisi, GuiltyLion, Not_Mafia.


I don't feel strongly:

Pooky, Klick


I don't really feel comfortable putting them in the tier above this or the tier below this atm (i.e. a combo of "scummyish" and "needs more info"):

MURDERCAT, bugspray


I feel are scummy:

goats, Flea

---

Right now I don't have a problem with a MURDERCAT yeet but I definitely don't want it happening imminently. It's also entirely possible that as I explain some reads they will change but this is a snapshot of how I feel atm.

[implosion]

Unvote

why is guiltylion a "duh"? i don't think you actually said anything about him, other than you liked he kicked your ass into high gear, and then later on that you don't see anything scummy from him. did i miss you talking more in depth about him somewhere?

also uh, do you wanna talk about anything wrt me?

GuiltyLion is a duh because

his whole thing with goats is confusing to understand

what's confusing about it?

Genuine frustration but as I said before it could be a caught for the wrong reasons thing and if he is town I kinda get what he is saying about your push on him? Which is why you're also in my confused pile.

i don't buy this at all, it just feels like an excuse to vote goats or gl later/when one of them flips

if dwlee really believed this, they'd probably be at least questioning goats and trying to sort them if not voting them, since the most likely scenario from their pov is that gl is town. and they had gl as an actual townread earlier.

I don't have to poke and prod in every single direction at once jfc

This is one specific thing I want to bring up since I feel pretty good about both Infinity and Dwlee.

I think Dwlee's response here strikes exactly the right note; their play this game just reads like they're vibing generally, I get the sense that they don't feel overly pressured even as people are pressuring them. I think the directions they've gone in are sensible from a town perspective. I can be more specific if desired I think.

[implosion]

Regarding goats: it really feels like they're using their GL scumread as a laurel to rest on. 393 (which Datisi mentioned looked scummy to him) is just... extremely

not

the reply that post deserves. That post was aggressively pro-town, it just reads to me as a townie desperately trying to both stop the gamestate from becoming harder to play in and to reach out and try to correct an erroneous scumread that is perceived to potentially cost like two miselims. If goats literally started reading that post and then decided to stop I'm just skeptical that they're really trying to discern alignments.

I don't think arrogance is necessarily scummy, but I think goats is, simply put, tunneling (yes they have indicated another scumread on MURDERCAT, yes they are still tunneling on GL) and I think it's a scummy tunnel. Things like 412 and the already-mentioned by me a couple posts ago 351 feel performative. Almost all of goats's analysis this game day has been through a lens of GuiltyLion-is-scum; ironically, despite me earlier defending them because they were claiming independent scumreads on GL and Dwlee, it feels like most of what goats posts now would just fall away and become empty if GL were to flip town. There's not even a slight twinge of potentially being wrong, not a sliver when, again, lots of players are saying GL is acting townish now. Sometimes they're trying to dispel those people's reads but idk, it just feels off to me. I feel like none of their other analysis has been nearly as up to snuff as their detailed breakdown of GL and that breakdown has been, in retrospect, kind of one-dimensional given that I think GL's play at this point has a lot of depth to it.

[implosion]

Regarding Flea: I don't have anything nearly so concrete. I read faer iso and idk there was that one post that GL called scummy that I agreed with and some wallish catchups and not a whole lot else there. Really probably should be in the same tier as bugspray/MC. the tiers are just so much more symmetrical this way.