White flag #824 game over

[GuiltyLion]

actually MURDERCAT what would you say is your best performance as scum onsite?

[cyrus62]

sorry players I was sick Sunday and Monday so I missed a few prods please forgive me

[Flea The Magician]

I'm here I'm queer, I'm in a shit mood so I ain't reading up. You wall has been denied, what do I need to know?

[northsidegal]

dwlee likely town for that.

can you elaborate on this one? I don't see how that post makes Dwlee any more likely town, he's just accepting a townread on him from Flea

I also don't vibe with your Datisi scumread, I feel 47 is town!indicative from him because if he were scum wanting to bullshit a read on me he would have likely checked the Coalition game first to see whether he could find something different in my play, rather than claiming suspicion first without checking. Forgetting that I naked voted in the last game doesn't feel to me like the kind of fake thought process that scum would make up if he knew I'm town here

so does

Mindmeld Theory

™ say that i now have to townread GL for agreeing with me here? anyways, this also makes me realize that i probably misread that post from dwlee – it was probably a joke responding to infinity's post. this is part of why i don't really like to do these sorts of stream-of-reading catch-ups and sometimes get bothered when other people do them, but whatever.

I'm selecting Gamma as my other hard townread

Infinity are you townreading bugspray?

no

i think probably more often than not scum in this circumstance would make up at least some kind of read or something to say, especially after having just sort of defended bugs. so moderately +town for infinity here.

-snip-

inclined to townlean klick here.

[northsidegal]

i think that the conversation between goats and datisi on page 5 seems genuine on goats' part.

--

actually i think i'm gonna VOTE: bugspray

i don't think gamma provided any *great* rebuttals to bugspray, so the fact that they unvoted him anyway, and then voted implo (who just so happened to be the leading wagon) without any actual thoughts written out for why they did that? and with seeming a lot of confidence?

I feel like this has more reason to think gamma is scum but then you voted bugspray?

for some reason this post pings me as scum. can't explain it, just being upfront about it.

--
leaning town on infinity from the bottom of page 5 and top of page 6. i almost feel like the only thing i'm doing is seeing townreads or that i might have too much, but after checking i think probably i'm not actually going super overboard. also, GL once again says almost exactly what i was thinking.

--

Okay I got three pages in

GuiltyLion
Gamma Emerald
Not_Mafia
Flea the Magician
Infinity 324
MURDERCAT
Dwlee99

goats
bugspray
implosion
Klick
Datisi
PookyTheMagicalBear

this murdercat read is really weird.

[northsidegal]

do i really have to explain why implo is town

yup. you do infy.

so this post from implies that flea has been scumreading implosion, but i feel like if this were the case we probably would've seen some other posts either on the subject matter or directed towards implosion from flea, which we didn't.

So as ever, I can't resist a bit of mech talk, even in an open.

Setup seems designed with maf only having night talk, but our setup has maf daytalk. Also given the stats on the wiki show that this game has a 73% scumwin rate, how're people feeling about this?

i think it's fine, 7 is not a big enough sample size to draw conclusions based on past runs, and the EV of 47.8% is pretty townsided in this meta.

i actually disagree, my impression is that white flag is similar to both nightless and mountainous as one of the setups where the in-practice EV is pretty far from the expected EV (the EEV?). the mafia nightkill is super powerful, and it seems like basically any setup where you just have the town versus the mafia NK without adding in any other mechanics seems to have scum outperform EV. CFJ had a pretty good thread on this a while ago i think, i might try to find it later. anyways, none of this is really relevant to the game, just wanted to say.

I like Klick's 91. Flea is a lighter read but I liked the two reaction tests fae made (110 and 194). A little bit of gutread in there too tbh.

i don't think either of those posts are "reaction tests".

Gamma wants to actually do something with his opening and use it to solve. It wasn't just the entrance specifically but also how he built off of it and showed how he wanted to use it to solve in a genuine way

What solving did Gamma do with his opening exercise? I didn't see him make many reads off it, he moved on really quick.

Gamma talks about how the info gleaned from it can be used later for associatives and to get people a core group to discuss things with.

let me quote myself here – i think that if i were RC i would kill you for this post alone.

[Dwlee99]

I'm responding to goats there why would RC care?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm very interested in the juxtaposition of Infinity "this is very obviously MC's town meta" 324 and PookyThe "this is very obviously not MC's town meta" MagicalBear.

Could it be ... one is scum?

[northsidegal]

think that my readslist currently looks something like:

{nsg}
{infinity, datisi}
{klick}
{goats, pooky, gamma, guilty}
{implosion, NM} - null
{MURDERCAT, dwlee, flea}

not sure if i'm super happy with all of these placements? paranoia is preventing all four of gamma, guilty, goats and implosion from being higher ("guilty gammagoats implosion" coincidentally being the name of my new band). i think that eventually all of them probably will be higher (which is a weird thing to think maybe), but for now i'd like to see more. i'm similarly not

super

happy with the bottom, but it's fine.

I'm responding to goats there why would RC care?

it's mostly just me talking to myself, trying to emulate other people's thought processes. if i get the feeling that someone else would have been pinged by someone or would have reacted in some way that i myself don't, it means that that person knows something or is picking up on something that i'm not – figuring out what that might be could, i imagine, be a useful way for me to get better. hope that made sense.

[Gamma Emerald]

i remember muffins once played a game where he responded to literally every single post in the thread, votecounts and his own posts when he caught up to them included. always thought that was hilarious – not sure i'd have the energy to do it myself though, at least in a way that ended up slightly comedic like his was rather than just being annoying (which, to be fair, his probably still was).

I think I was in that one? I remember seeing someone do that in a game once

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE:
NSG is looking at least alright at a glance

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Murdercat
Maybe NM if this is town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm gonna look at some MURDERCAT scum games in between spells of work today to see what his top scum performance can look like cause I'm worried the Infinity examples might be closer to his worst rather than his average/best

I also dislike the argument on this page of "why would I not want a bugs hammer as scum" on first pass, feels WIFOMy

In my experience MURDERCAT!scum tends to be decent at best

[Datisi]

@nsg, why am i so high?

[northsidegal]

how would you feel if i told you that it was an n=1 games evaluation of your meta

not saying it is just asking

[Datisi]

i would feel like that is a dangerous game to play, i wouldn't complain because you're townread me, but i would still ask you to elaborate to see how you arrived there

[northsidegal]

nah.

at least, not right now. like i said, those are just where i'm at right now. i'd prefer to wait until i'm fully caught up before really getting into anything.

why the curiosity, if you don't mind my asking? are you surprised, or thinking that you're not playing particularly towny this game? maybe you just want to know how to fool me next time you're scum (or how you've already managed to fool me, if you're scum)?

[Gamma Emerald]

Is it just me or does Flea feel low-key scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, I guess it’s not “just me” because a few others have fae at the bottom of their readlists
What I’m saying is I don’t TR Flea but I also don’t see how some people are as confident in fae being scum as they are

[Datisi]

i don't think i'm yet in in the uber obvtown mode, no, but my surprise comes moreso from the fact that you've so far mentioned me only once in your catchup, and as "moderately townie". also, if i wanna read someone better by discussing their reads, the easiest one to discuss is the one on myself.

and sure, when i'm town, i'm pretty much always making some vague mental notes of what works and what doesn't for when i roll scum. debatable how much of them i actually end up remembering, though.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah tbh the thoughts expressed in the catch-up don’t make sense with where I’m placed either, all I remember was calling my post @ goats a towntell

@nsg

as a general question, why are you paranoid of me/implo/GL/goats? Tbh I think implo should be obvtown to you because the one scumgame I remember from him was a game you modded and that was night-and-day from here (and in a recent completed game implo has asserted that his scum play still needs work, to paraphrase)

[MURDERCAT]

I'm gonna look at some MURDERCAT scum games in between spells of work today to see what his top scum performance can look like cause I'm worried the Infinity examples might be closer to his worst rather than his average/best

I also dislike the argument on this page of "why would I not want a bugs hammer as scum" on first pass, feels WIFOMy

It's this one: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85633

[MURDERCAT]

let's 1v1 me and dwlee please

[MURDERCAT]

NSG please vote between me and dwlee

[northsidegal]

bit of a weird request, wouldn't you agree?