Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Semantics issue, maybe. Usually, "cleared" means "confirmed to be town," say from a cop investigation. Also, tajo flipping town, while obviously indicating that tajo-stef is not a scumpair, doesn't really make stef any more likely to be town.

[BlakAdder]

To me, "cleared" means "not scummy". And, again, I used the term partially. I know that that doesn't mean Stef is definitely not scum, but it significantly less likely.

[Sierra]

In short: yes and yes.

Care to back that up? I bet you for every one lurking scum you can find, I can find two lurking town.

Lurking is bad for town, so by definition lurking is scummy. You are right when you say that there are also townies that lurk, but that's like saying there are also townies who commit scumtells. That's no reason not to vote someone for it. I'm very doubtful if there are really that many more lurking town than there are lurking scum, but I don't think that would be a very fruitful discussion at this point.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm still looking for one that's worth voting for. None of them have branched out quite enough for me yet. I'm going to keep a close eye on Ku_F, as I said before.

Good, that tells me quite a bit.

FoS: Skitzer

Let's see: you're unwilling to take a stand here, most of your post 180 is Information Instead of Analysis* , and your questions looked like an attempt to defend populartajo by directing attention away from him. Yeah, that's not scummy at all...

(* - Information Instead of Analysis: trying to pass off site commentary, Mafia theory, and/or setup speculation as analysis in order to avoid scumhunting.)

[Tarhalindur]

omg, you dont like me asking questions? ... without asking questions at all, how do you plan on scum hunting?

It was a JOKE. Of course i like people asking questions and i ask questions as well since questioning can only help the town since it brings more discussion and more content to the game. Not accepting the presumption that it was a joke is weird considering the alternative would make me an idiot inside or outside the game.

I believe I have already commented on my position about joking in Mafia games.

I feel i said enough in my defense.

Since you seem to be new and I've been burned by this kind of comment before in Newbie games, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this is just a newbie mistake. Inexperienced-challenged mode, activate!

[icmode]

In a mafia game, your opinion on whether your defense is adequate is irrrelevant. Your fellow players are the final judge of whether your defense is adequate. If they think your defense is adequate, it is. If they don't think your defense is adequate, it isn't.

[/icmode]

Ooba: continues to go only after me even if he has so little to go with. That tells me he either doesn't have any other leads on any1 else or he's trying to get more people to vote for a person who posted something that in some people's eyes is a scumtell. You haven't bothered to look at other players as well. What are your 3 top suspects and what are your arguments against them?

I have some comments to make here, but I will let Ooba respond to you first.

Tarhalindur: I commented your suspicion on me but what i do find interesting is that you change your primary targets from ( in this order ): PT, Sierra, Me and "He's down to third on my scumdar right now, mainly because I feel tajo and Sierra are currently higher priorities." TO: "Empking is nowhere near as scummy as tajo or Stef are right now"
I see a sudden change that you don't explain. Can you please do so now?

First: You're misinterpreting my Empking comment. I only brought him up because I was explicitly asked by skitzer why I wasn't attacking Empking - he's not a major suspect for me at the moment. My scumdar at the moment is: populartajo, *discontinuity*, Skitzer, and you.

Why you've gone down in the scumdar: I don't find you less scummy (you're about the same as you were in the beginning) - I've simply come to find that populartajo is even more likely to be scum than you are.

Why Skitzer is scummy: see my last post.

Sierra has dropped off of my scumdar because, as I noted earlier, I strongly doubt that populartajo and Sierra are both Mafia (barring 2 mafia factions) and after what I've seen so far I think that populartajo is probably scum.

Also, if you have to vote between armlx and ooba who would you vote for?

If I was forced to vote either armlx or Ooba, I'd vote Ooba, because armlx is obviously town and I don't have a great read on Ooba at this point.

Now, why are you asking this question?

[skitzer]

Ku_F: Yeah. I just feel like the sarcasm tags were out of place and trying to cover bases. I don't think I would have said that rather than use those fake tags.

[Empking]

You misunderstand the question, I think. How would he be at all cleared?

Because the only reason I am suspicious of him is because of the potential connection to tajo. If tajo flips town, then that is gone.

Yeah, we've got different definations of cleared.

[ShadowGirl]

Weekend, slow posting.

Mod, I'm not voting anyone at the moment.

[populartajo]

Do I have to explain again why I am not scum, Thar?

[populartajo]

@PT: you have yet to address my post 150. Please explain your flip-flopping.

Theres no flip-flopping.
Theres a difference between defending him and only pointing out that if he has a goon status and a Saddam-Sattan avatar we should think twice before wagoning/lynching him.
I understand he could be scum. Ive played with newbies before but newbies ARE MORE PRONE to scumtells.
Thats all ive been saying in this freaking game and NO ONE seems to understand.
And if someone should be lynched it must be him and not me because what I did (as some people call "defending" HAS ZERO MOTIVATION as scum.

[sekinj]

@PT: I will brinf this forward for you so you can address it properly.

Judging by his avatar and his goon status I wouldnt take him so serious until a big big scumtell.

Read my post again plz. I never said that.

And why cant he be a dumb newbie (again judged by his avatar and his goon status?)
Why is that a strong scumtell?

First you say you didn't say it at all, and then you start defending it... I dont understand... I took 140 to exactly mean that you thought he as a newbie (reference to goon status) and dumb to boot (reference to avatar). I'd say we can all have our own taste in avatar and that doesn't mean anything about our play style. Now, about being newbie, i don't understand why you denied saying it and then defended it...

Why did you deny saying that he was a newbie and then 2 posts later give reasons for why you said he was a newbie?

[populartajo]

When did I deny saying he was a newbie?

[Stef]

he has a goon status and a Saddam-Sattan avatar we should think twice

You keep using that card after even i have told you it's a bad one.

And if someone should be lynched it must be him and not me because what I did (as some people call "defending" HAS ZERO MOTIVATION as scum.

I disagree. You have been fixating on this and i don't know why (the defending thingy". Do you really think i should be lynched? Do you consider your game has been more helpful to the town than my posting was? I don't.

Now, why are you asking this question?

I wanted to fill in some gaps in your "scumdar" ( which i presume is somewhat of a "radar" for scum ) and your priority changes.

The question about ooba and armlx had as purpose to let us know your status on the two. This info does help me because it helps knowing who you think is innocent considering i don't think that trusting anyone is a good idea and that it doesn't really help the town.

I believe I have already commented on my position about joking in Mafia games.

And i would agree if the game wasn't still in the joking phase.

I believe I have already commented on my position about joking in Mafia games.

And i would agree if the game wasn't still in the joking phase.

Noted.

Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

I have no connection to Tajo. I have no idea why he started the "defense" case and i don't agree with it. I think that makes him suspicious.

For now switching my vote to Tajo since his continuous posts about me being a newbie and defense is scummy. If i die and flip town he could easily say "hey i defended him when none of you have!" and try to clear himself.

Vote Populartajo

[populartajo]

WHY IS MY OPINION OF A BANDWAGON OF A NEWBIE CONSIDERED A DEFENCE AND WHY IS IT SCUMMY (I.E. MOTIVATED FOR SCUM REASONS)?

[BlakAdder]

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

The question about ooba and armlx had as purpose to let us know your status on the two. This info does help me because it helps knowing who you think is innocent considering i don't think that trusting anyone is a good idea and that it doesn't really help the town.

Mmm. . . why does who tar thinks innocent help you?

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote vote BlackAdder

votes Skitzer when skitzer gets heat.

comes in and throws suspicion on Pop and Stef, when they are getting heat.

vote count comes out with Pop leading, he votes Pop.

I dont mind bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagon day 1, but this looks like he is trying act like he is participating, while adding nothing knew, scum hunting, or asking any questions.

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

Now Pop is "scummy" because he is attempting to deflect a Stef wagon, but he is also scummy because Stef is voting him. These are all silly stretches.

What are your current thoughts on Cybele, tar, skitzer, armlx, and now myself. Do you have a completed game where you were scum that you can provide a link for?...a good link when you were town and felt like you played well?

[curiouskarmadog]

knew=new

[ooba]

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

I do not like the way you're trying to link Stef and pop and trying to imply that if pop turns town, stef is partially cleared in your books. Quoting an earlier post where you did this before ...

@Stef: I already mentioned, everything that I think has already been said. But, overall, populartajo's vote on Sierra and bad defense of you are the reason he's scummy. Personally, you would not be that suspicious yourself if he had not tried to rush to your defense.
So, vote: populartajo. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

[Erratus Apathos]

So, uhh...how exactly does

claiming vanilla

alleviate boredom?

Also, how does Stef's avatar make him more likely to be a newb?

[Erratus Apathos]

unvote vote BlackAdder

votes Skitzer when skitzer gets heat.

comes in and throws suspicion on Pop and Stef, when they are getting heat.

vote count comes out with Pop leading, he votes Pop.

I dont mind bandwagoning for the sake of bandwagon day 1, but this looks like he is trying act like he is participating, while adding nothing knew, scum hunting, or asking any questions.

Because you're trying to shift suspicion off of Stef, and along with Stef voting you, it looks like scum distancing.

Now Pop is "scummy" because he is attempting to deflect a Stef wagon, but he is also scummy because Stef is voting him. These are all silly stretches.

What are your current thoughts on Cybele, tar, skitzer, armlx, and now myself. Do you have a completed game where you were scum that you can provide a link for?...a good link when you were town and felt like you played well?

FoS: CKD

textbook chainsawing

[Haschel Cedricson]

Here are the things that jumped out at me after page 4.

I don't like how Jebus ended the random stage. He tries to make it look better in 76, but Cybele raises an excellent point in 78. I want Jebus to explain why ooba was chosen.

In 84 populartajo claims vanilla because he is bored. Setting aside the fact that it's crappy town play to claim vanilla townie unprovoked, I don't understand why he is bored. The Skitzer thing could be commented on, or the Jebus thing. It's not like the game had reached a standstill, so why was he bored?

My first thought on reading Stef's 93 was "This guy isn't reading the thread." Except he asked what was up with all the questions, so he IS reading the thread. I'll be watching this.

I'm not going to completely buy into ooba's meta on Stef, because Stef's sample size is so small.

I don't understand why Tar doesn't like the first sentence of 126. Actually, I guess I do UNDERSTAND it; I just don't agree. Yes, it would be ideal if Sierra would commit to a position on Stef. However, Stef still has some questions to answer and there are other suspects out there, so I don't see a failure to vote for Stef as a scumtell.

Populartajo is waffling in posts 140-146, and sekinj is right to call him out on it. If I was voting right now, I'd vote for PT. As it is, I'll wait until the end of my reread/post.

Okay, let's see what Tarhalindur is saying in 166. The first part makes sense, but FALSE DILEMMA SIGHTED

At this point, it feels to me like armlx is following Tar around. I'll need to recheck to see if this is a game-long phenomenon or if it just seems that way because of a few posts.

Regarding my vanilla claim.
This isnt WIFOM. Its common sense. If I were scum, why would I bring unnecessary attention to myself with that claim? I WAS BORED. I hate the random stage. I wanted discussion. Yes, its antitown but it doesnt suggest allignment in the context it was used : random stage. Thats why its null.
I dont have problems when people attack me but please, think before you post.

That's great, except we weren't quite in the random stage anymore. So, if it's a null tell in the random stage and anti-town in other cases, then you have just agreed that you were being anti-town.

Next post. ShadowGirl agrees with Tajo, again claiming that the game was in the random stage. Again, I disagree.

The reason for me supporting the pressure on Stef but voting and FOSsing other players, was because I don't think it's a good idea to focus the entirety of the town's attention on one person. At that moment, the lead on Stef was the only lead that was being pursued, while I found Seraphim and Tajo also deserved some of that attention. That's why I didn't vote Stef.

Aww. I defended you the first time and now you post something like this. The previous page focused primarily on Cybele and PT. That's hardly the town's attention focused on one person.

BlakAdder and Seraphim are being ridiculous with the hammer-fear.

At this point, I looked at Stef's previous games. He's alive in all of them, so I'm not sure how ooba can use a meta for a vote.

Erratus Apathos: In 245 you accuse CKD of "textbook chainsawing". I know two definitions for chainsawing and neither of them apply here. Could you clarify, please?

Anyhoo, I'm going to

Unvote; Vote: PT

, with Sierra as my next top suspect. I also feel that ShadowGirl merits closer watching. Tar seems to be internally consistent. TSPN needs to stop being lazy and register his damn fantasy basketball team.

Disclaimer: I did this all in one sitting, so if I missed anything or got something wrong, let me know.

[Haschel Cedricson]

EBWOP: If anybody comments on how I've never used a siren smiley in a game before, I will stab them in the face.

[curiouskarmadog]

wow, been playing this game for over a year...never heard the term chainsawing..please define.

[BlakAdder]

Okay, CKD, here you go.
Cybele, Tar, and Skitzer have done nothing particularly scummy in my eyes so far. Same with Armlx, except for the fact that I don't really like the Cybele wagon.
Now, in my defense, you're being a bit of a hypocrite in the sense that a third of your vote revolves around what is essentially active lurking, while you haven't added many meaningful posts either. Also, my vote on Skitzer was random.
Any other questions?