Open 823 - To Tell The Truth | Game Over

[Not_Mafia]

I don't care about finding scum, I just want to know why Cyrus crumbed VT

[imaginality]

So if Zyla's town, either she found stronger reasons to keep her vote on cyrus (if so, what?) or she never had any better reason to vote anyone else?

The second one is correct

The idea that you placed a very early vote on cyrus for an extremely weak reason and didn't find any better reason to vote anyone else (or even a better reason to confirm your vote on cyrus) for the rest of the day doesn't sit well with the idea that you're town trying to solve the game.

I'm confused to what those two posts have to do with each other at all

Yeah, I think I got mixed up here - looked like you were replying to HockeyFan when I reread in iso but you were actually replying to my post. Point withdrawn.

If Zyla was voting cyrus for the crumbing (ie basically for his play style), why cyrus and not NM whose playstyle she describes as 'pretty frustrating'? This makes me doubt the genuineness of the continued cyrus vote.

I do find Cyrus to be frustrating, but whether or not NM is frustrating to play with, I've also heard good things about NM's scumhunting ability, whereas the games I've been in Cyrus have not given me the same trust in his abilities. So

if my vote were based on who I didn't want to play with

, of those two it wouldn't be NM

Wasn't that what your vote actually was based on? I.e. cyrus being cyrus. This bolded line gives me the sense your vote on cyrus was for other reasons (such as cyrus being an easier mis-elim for scum to push).

Also if you're scum then the fact you see NM as good at scum hunting gives additional motivation to not vote him, i.e. to not draw his attention onto you...

I find it suspicious that Zyla was focusing on the semantics rather than either: looking for substantive reasons to either confirm her read on cyrus or clear him, or looking at other players to see if she could find a stronger scumread.

When cyrus answered Zyla in post 202, Zyla didn't respond to him. Was this desire for clarification just an excuse to continue to keep her vote on him?

I was partially focusing on the exact word choice, yes, it seemed a little buzzy, especially since I didn't agree that it was strong enough for the words to be accurate. I touched on this lightly in 183

This doesn't really address my points:
a. That you were focused on semantics rather than on substance
b. That while you used this to keep your vote on cyrus, you didn't respond to cyrus's 202

Feels like Zyla either saw T3 as scummy or didn't care whether he was eliminated or not. If the latter, that's suspicious (especially if T3 turns out to be town). If the former, why didn't she voice any suspicions of him earlier?

An alternate take on the "I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else" is scum coaching, which perhaps is boosted by the fact she says that even though her vote isn't on him. This might be a stretch but at the very least I don't think a Zyla scum flip would make T3 any more likely to be town.

When T3 does offer an alternative:

cyrus, vote him by meta.

Not really sure what meta you're meaning tbh

Again this sort of feels to me like Zyla not really caring about which one of T3 or cyrus gets eliminated. Considering her vote was on cyrus at the time this is a pretty lukewarm response to T3.

I mean, I preferred Cyrus as the one to get eliminated, but T3 wasn't looking particularly towny to me, so I would've been fine with him too, yes.

'wasn't looking particularly towny'? That sounds very lukewarm when you said (below) he was one of your 'major suspicions'.

As far as 'scumcoaching', if I were a scum partner, why would I say this in the main thread instead of the mafia thread, that just seems illogical to me.

If scum only chat in their day thread that makes them easy to spot so they have to have some main thread interactions too. Like I say, though, this line of thought isn't an additional reason to think you're scum. More just noting that if you are scum it's very compatible with T3 also being scum.

I'm good where I am for now, you're one of my top suspects so I don't mind if you get eliminated

Zyla, what was it that made cyrus "one of your top suspects"? Aside from cyrus and ArcAngel, did you have other "top suspects" at that time? Was T3 one of your top suspects at the time of post 200?

Do you have any town reads?

T3 was my other major suspicion. As for town reads, Hockey is looking towny to me, mostly by meta from our previous game.

"your other major suspicion" was someone who you literally didn't mention until post 200 and even then you didn't give any reasons for suspecting him, just asked him to make a case on someone else?



TLDR:
I really don't get the sense that you've been trying to solve this game at all. My vote's staying on you.

[imaginality]

I don't care about finding scum, I just want to know why Cyrus crumbed VT

Hey Not_Mafia, I've never played with you. When can we expect you to start doing something useful? Zyla says you're a good scumhunter - who are your scum reads at this point and why?

[Not_Mafia]

When can we expect you to start doing something useful?

2046

[Not_Mafia]

Zyla says you're a good scumhunter

She was lying

[T3]

t3, whats your gun to head solve

Arc Zyla Imaginality?

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 2.02

Elimination

With 8 alive, 5 votes are required for elimination.

MegAzumarill

(1): goats

ArcAngel9

(1): HockeyFan

Zyla

(1): imaginality

HockeyFan

(1): ArcAngel9

Not Voting

(4): Megazumarill, Zyla, Not_Mafia, T3

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-25 18:12:18).

Mod notes:

ArcAngel9 is V/LA weekends

[imaginality]

Arc Zyla and me?

The Arc you called locktown D1 and only voted today due to you misunderstanding the setup, the Zyla who 12 hours ago you said is sounding townie, and the me who you haven't pushed at all, just said someone else's analysis of me was good (but not good enough to tempt you to vote me, mind you)?

As it happens I think Zyla is likely scum and I think there's a decent chance Arc might be, but I don't believe you genuinely suspect any of us.

vote: T3

[HockeyFan]

t3, whats your gun to head solve

Arc Zyla Imaginality?

uhhh what? Lol maybe T3 is mafia?

[goats]

Meg should prolly be exed

[goats]

actually let me reread zyla

[goats]

Yeah I still believe they're town

[goats]

Megs day 1 was really really really bad, like not just inactivity but the only read they gave was repitition of something I had said for the most part, basically it doesn't feel original at all, and that singular thing was all they got from the entire day 1 thread? Nah bruh

past that, their world view of { Zyla, Arcangel} being the bottom of their reads is discomforting, and when I look at how off putting these wolf reads are to me my only thought is "Meg can't find the wolves because they are one"

like I'm just looking at this list from town!megs PoV and I'm not seeing three wolves, I don't know where they are

[goats]

Meg is a wolf

which makes imaginality likely a wolf

will consider the third

[goats]

hockey fan isn't with meg

[goats]

imaginality, meg, NM

[goats]

I don't care about finding scum, I just want to know why Cyrus crumbed VT

Hey Not_Mafia, I've never played with you. When can we expect you to start doing something useful? Zyla says you're a good scumhunter - who are your scum reads at this point and why?

distancing

[goats]

Meg is actually so mafia, can we just hammer?

[goats]

wow this game is so easy everything I read confirmation biases me more

[HockeyFan]

lol, I mean I tr you and I dont tr meg, so I would like to, but I still want to figure out Arc's alligment since the reads comes a bit from conf bias

[goats]

I just ISOd the mod twice ama

imaginality is outed fwiw he's the most scummy

Your radar is off.

Are you calling me scum based off a hunch (in which case, you're wrong but hey, you do you), or for perceived reasons (in which case, please share)?

Won't say.

VOTE: T3

This 'I have a read but I won't tell you it yet' seems anti-town. Seems like keeping it unspoken means you can wait to see whether others lean cyrus:town or cyrus:scum so you can then say that's what your read was too.

This feels like a highly speculative post that essentially boils down to "T3 is being scummy if they are in the majority"
It doesn't feel like something a townie would push.

For me if I think "cyrus is scum and will make it obvious who his scumbuddies are if we watch and wait" I'd watch and wait, not say 'ooh I know cyrus's alignment but I'm not telling'. Seems like it offers no value to town to say that at that point but does offer some fence-sitting value to scum.

Look at the differences tonally and I'm approach in these responses to being wolf read

[goats]

I just ISOd the mod twice ama

imaginality is outed fwiw he's the most scummy

Your radar is off.

Are you calling me scum based off a hunch (in which case, you're wrong but hey, you do you), or for perceived reasons (in which case, please share)?

this post is really scummy I think

the way imaginality treats me is with no scepticism. I'd expect some considering I just called him a wolf and his top scum read town

I'm sceptical about your read on me!

I don't have strong reads at this point, it's not like I think T3 is lockscum. His recent posts don't bother me so much. If I wasn't voting him I'd be voting ArcAngel most likely, also for somewhat weak reasons (the early chainsawing post and a sense she's been happy to go under the radar somewhat since then). Or mega for reasons below.

Sure, you might be scum but I see you as more likely town drawing wrong conclusions. I don't see you disagreeing on reads at this stage as scummy in and of itself. You seem to be trying to figure stuff out and make stuff happen compared to fake reasoning and gliding.

I'm more suspicious of Mega for only turning up and voting me after seeing others attacking me. Seems like he's jumping on me for convenience seeing me as a safe target to scum read.

Here's what Mega said about me:

VOTE: imaginality

Their interactions with T3 give off a weird vibe to me.

Hunch, no analysis.

Won't say.

VOTE: T3

This 'I have a read but I won't tell you it yet' seems anti-town. Seems like keeping it unspoken means you can wait to see whether others lean cyrus:town or cyrus:scum so you can then say that's what your read was too.

This feels like a highly speculative post that

essentially boils down to "T3 is being scummy if they are in the majority"

It doesn't feel like something a townie would push.

Bolded is a complete misrepresentation of my point.

... And that's all.
So...

Meg town I think.

Wait, I just saw this, can you elaborate k ty

Good analysis of imaginality and I don't think they are s/s.

Where is this 'good analysis' you speak of? Choosing such a flimsy reason to call T3 town makes me wonder if you're trying to shift attention away from him. Are you buddies?

meh read on Meg, directing negative attention from Meg towards others in the form of criticizing the town reads etc

[goats]

I think I still prefer a T3 vote. Didn't like the way the pressure shifted away from T3 to cyrus yesterday, so I feel like if T3 is scum there's scum on the cyrus wagon (aside from T3 and cyrus, that was Zyla, ArcAngel and Not_Mafia).

With Meg I could go along with a wagon but I'd rather see more from him first. I'm wary I'm overreacting to the bad case he made on me. I'll have time to reread this evening - I want to look at others too.

For example, I didn't like this from HockeyFan:

goats
@Megazumarill
@imaginality
@HockeyFan

Im not gonna really do this even

if

you're town because you didnt look town at all. I probs look more into zyla, but I think the other people who voted you could be town, also cryus why did u self hammer lol

HockeyFan, why did you say you'd look into Zyla - what makes Zyla less likely to be town than the others on the cyrus wagon?

On my re-read I found Zyla and find her posts about cyrus/T3 interesting. Especially cyrus. I'd previously had a vague town-lean on her but when I did a deeper read this is what I noticed:

Spoiler: Zyla's vote on cyrus

VOTE: Cyrus.
Anyone can read that, and there's only vanilla roles any way, there's no point in it even if it were some master code

A weak reason to vote cyrus. That's absolutely fair enough, since it was early on D1. What's of note is that her vote never moves after this. So if Zyla's town, either she found stronger reasons to keep her vote on cyrus (if so, what?) or she never had any better reason to vote anyone else?

Spoiler: asking why Hockey thought cyrus could be town

VOTE: arcangel

Wait wtf cyrus might be town?

What about this vote makes him towny?

Hockey answered Zyla, saying it was because cyrus scumread ArcAngel. Zyla said:

Oh yeah. I don't think I've ever actually managed to hit scum first time so I forgot it was possible xD

Can't quite pin down why but something about this post gives me a gut feel that Zyla knows ArcAngel's alignment one way or another.

Spoiler: meta posts

N_M, why are u doing this to me smfh, pls dont claim scum when I tr u

It's Not_Mafia, this is just how they play.
Honestly, it's pretty frustrating

In response to NM asking why cyrus crumbed VT:

It's Cyrus

If Zyla was voting cyrus for the crumbing (ie basically for his play style), why cyrus and not NM whose playstyle she describes as 'pretty frustrating'? This makes me doubt the genuineness of the continued cyrus vote.

Spoiler: on cyrus's comments about ArcAngel

discrediting everyone here aka chainsawing.and whiteknighting.

I don't know what chainsawing is, but WKing is defending people, and "too early to call them scum" is way to weak a defense to call it that.
Angel's post was scummy to me, but that's because she was dismissing Hockey and your (Cyrus) reads rather than trying to

discuss

them, not because she was 'whiteknighting'

Zyla's calling Angel scummy but criticising cyrus for how he made the same point. This leads to a discussion of semantics:

so you think arc is scum too?

I find her post to be suspicious, yes
But atm I'm interested in what your definitions of those terms are

I find it suspicious that Zyla was focusing on the semantics rather than either: looking for substantive reasons to either confirm her read on cyrus or clear him, or looking at other players to see if she could find a stronger scumread.

When cyrus answered Zyla in post 202, Zyla didn't respond to him. Was this desire for clarification just an excuse to continue to keep her vote on him?

Spoiler: T3 worried about getting eliminated

Can we please take me off NM-1.
I'm slightly paranoid

You've got 44 hours, I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else, not focusing on yourself.

Also, if anyone's confused, NM likes to quickhammer, so E1 is effectively a hammer in a game he's in

Feels like Zyla either saw T3 as scummy or didn't care whether he was eliminated or not. If the latter, that's suspicious (especially if T3 turns out to be town). If the former, why didn't she voice any suspicions of him earlier?

An alternate take on the "I'd suggest giving us a reason to vote someone else" is scum coaching, which perhaps is boosted by the fact she says that even though her vote isn't on him. This might be a stretch but at the very least I don't think a Zyla scum flip would make T3 any more likely to be town.

When T3 does offer an alternative:

cyrus, vote him by meta.

Not really sure what meta you're meaning tbh

Again this sort of feels to me like Zyla not really caring about which one of T3 or cyrus gets eliminated. Considering her vote was on cyrus at the time this is a pretty lukewarm response to T3.

Spoiler: In response for cyrus asking Zyla to unvote him

I'm good where I am for now, you're one of my top suspects so I don't mind if you get eliminated

Zyla, what was it that made cyrus "one of your top suspects"? Aside from cyrus and ArcAngel, did you have other "top suspects" at that time? Was T3 one of your top suspects at the time of post 200?

Do you have any town reads?

Vote: Zyla

I think some of these points need answering.

first post is a continuation of moving off Meg for meh reasons, and a decently strong push on zyla likely comes from wolf imaginality if a wolf partner has chances of dying

[goats]

Arc is a possible partner but I'm skeptical that wolf arc is included with town NM in the checks, additionally while being paired with imaginality and Meg. Will talk about NM later but

[goats]

VOTE: imaginality

Their interactions with T3 give off a weird vibe to me.

Won't say.

VOTE: T3

This 'I have a read but I won't tell you it yet' seems anti-town. Seems like keeping it unspoken means you can wait to see whether others lean cyrus:town or cyrus:scum so you can then say that's what your read was too.

This feels like a highly speculative post that essentially boils down to "T3 is being scummy if they are in the majority"
It doesn't feel like something a townie would push.

This is basically the most "wolf with TMI doesn't like their wolf partners posts" thing ever