open 826; trist fall (over)

[Faker]

thanks @pooky for the explanation, i understand it now

i guess i'm kinda wondering if everyone views the tier system as you do (i, as we all know, am not the best with mechanics, and didn't get this until you explained it like that), so in the moment, i'm not sure that's how infinity was viewing it

i think she probably did just want to get her partner's OK to leave (irregardless of if the partner is meg/enchant), which is why she went to 'strategize'.
like i understand your logic, but i'm just not sure it's damning for meg/enchant

I've played this setup twice now and won both times, first as scum and then as town. I have a very good idea of the emotions/movements that a scum player has to go through in order to win the game as well as the emotions/feelings a town player goes through as the game moves.

I don't think Megs emotions feel like someone who is town, I believe Meg is very desperate to leave and that doesn't make sense IMO from a town POV at this stage in the game.

There is a certain level of desire to leave that rings out in Meg's gameplay.

Also it really would be the icing on the cake for Koba's #2 townread to also be scum.

I truly do not know what world you are living in here but I guess I'll try a stab at it in the morning.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am very tired right now but I would appreciate a slowdown. I'm not onboard with this plan.

inutile: You don't need to be in the pairings to solve the game. It's unclear to me why it is a necessity to be cleared now instead of later, or the utility for you specifically over another player except perhaps to make it easier on you. The same goes for most of the other players, for example Meg who is only scumread by Pooky. For a more extreme example, not a single player has outed a scumread on me right now. I don't want to be trusted or cleared, but there'd be clear utility in it: If I'm scum the game is already over, and the assumption of the game is safe.

Hi Faker,

this is the trust fall game I played in last year with TW, I was scum:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=84993

The town managed to conftown ~5 players by chain trusting one after another and they had basically 5 ICs discussing who to trust/leave out of the last 3 players.

It's an incredibly powerful mechanic to "confirm" people and have them operating on a level of "trusted IC" and very difficult for a scum player to sow discord/distrust in.

I would like to IC Inutile unless someone has a very strong scum case for Inutile.

I could write up a long case for why I TR Inutile if that would make you feel better.

[inutile]

inutile: You don't need to be in the pairings to solve the game. It's unclear to me why it is a necessity to be cleared now instead of later, or the utility for you specifically over another player except perhaps to make it easier on you. The same goes for most of the other players, for example Meg who is only scumread by Pooky. For a more extreme example, not a single player has outed a scumread on me right now. I don't want to be trusted or cleared, but there'd be clear utility in it: If I'm scum the game is already over, and the assumption of the game is safe.

it makes it harder for me if anything,

[inutile]

it makes it harder for me if anything,

like i would then have to actually be right about something ya know

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I truly do not know what world you are living in here but I guess I'll try a stab at it in the morning.

I have a lot of experience with this setup and I am happy to explain my thoughts and feelings on it.

I would really like to maintain my 100% win rate on this setup despite the rather shitty circumstances we find ourselves in.

We have plenty of time.

Remember time is our friend in this setup.

Scum have much harder time keeping up a townie mindset across week+ whereas town have usually higher endurance.

the pressure will make scum make mistakes.

[Faker]

I am very tired right now but I would appreciate a slowdown. I'm not onboard with this plan.

inutile: You don't need to be in the pairings to solve the game. It's unclear to me why it is a necessity to be cleared now instead of later, or the utility for you specifically over another player except perhaps to make it easier on you. The same goes for most of the other players, for example Meg who is only scumread by Pooky. For a more extreme example, not a single player has outed a scumread on me right now. I don't want to be trusted or cleared, but there'd be clear utility in it: If I'm scum the game is already over, and the assumption of the game is safe.

Hi Faker,

this is the trust fall game I played in last year with TW, I was scum:

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=84993

The town managed to conftown ~5 players by chain trusting one after another and they had basically 5 ICs discussing who to trust/leave out of the last 3 players.

It's an incredibly powerful mechanic to "confirm" people and have them operating on a level of "trusted IC" and very difficult for a scum player to sow discord/distrust in.

I would like to IC Inutile unless someone has a very strong scum case for Inutile.

I could write up a long case for why I TR Inutile if that would make you feel better.

Hi, I don't need to be lectured on the mechanics of this and I have towncased inutile. Do better.

[skitter30]

ok pooky is town

[skitter30]

i would probably feel better ic'ing pooky if we're gonna ic anyone

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though

^

Meg ignores here that Enchant/Meg is the proposed fall of KOBA.

Someone who is NOT trusted at all by the town - and would not be influential at all in the execution of our plan to leave Koba/Faker behind.

If the collective TOWN makes a decision about the two to trustfall together, it could easily be Meg/Infy who are assigned and this would be very bad for them if they are S/S.

Also even if Enchant/Meg trustfall together and it is T/S - it doesn't mean Koba falls with Infinity again once koba is proven wrong. If koba did then it would be a massive slew of reports for straight gamethrowing waiting for them.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Hi, I don't need to be lectured on the mechanics of this and I have towncased inutile. Do better.

ok what do you want me to explain then?

I'm not trying to condescend to you dude I just want to win

[MegAzumarill]

I mean I think you are town but you are asking a lot for that confirm.

how does this make sense if you believe in Pooky/Pavo solve?

Pooky/Pavo/skitter for me

They are asking me to risk the game on the Inf/intu interaction early game being WKing over buddying. I think its more likely but its a gamble to assume it straight up.

We can only have 2 players in a solve, its impossible to leave three players behind.

Who are you even talking about and why is it scum indicative?

I'm aware we can't leave 3 players behind. I'm not certain it isn't any one of them.

Skitter: interactions with intuile + inf early on set off warning flags, feels like scum theatre in retrospect.

Pavo: feels a little distant to the game, probably the most likely of the three to be town

Pooky: haven't seen a lot from you besides you explaining why me/enchant is T/S (which I don't think is particularly sound- addresses that Infi hammering there is it is S/T makes sense, but it would still makes sense fmpov for inf to do the same on t/t me/enchant, as well as inf to not hmamer on s/t me/enchant)

[Faker]

Hi, I don't need to be lectured on the mechanics of this and I have towncased inutile. Do better.

ok what do you want me to explain then?

I'm not trying to condescend to you dude I just want to win

Go reread the post you replied to and pick out the part that was addressed directly to you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Enchant probably is clear if they posted without hammering before infinty was trusted

^

she is saying Enchant is trusted but she's really talking about herself through the same logical lens

[Faker]

576 and 579 were absolutely condescending despite your best efforts.

[skitter30]

If Infinity/Meg are both town, it is strictly better for them to trust each other rather than trust Koba.

From either POV, if the other player is scum, they can escape with Koba, so hence the other player should be townier than Koba by default.

sorry why did you suggest infinity/meg here (vs infintiy/enchant, meg/enchant, etc)
was it random or was there something more to it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Go reread the post you replied to and pick out the part that was addressed directly to you.

I mean I have seen this setup be much easier for town to play through after they confirmed a bunch of townies with trust-testing.

Inutile is saying she wants to be trusted in order to make it easier for her to express herself, she feels she would communicate better as an IC.

I townread her and I think it's a fine idea, I'm asking if anyone has serious objections(like an actual scumread on her).

I would also be ok with trust-testing you to make you an IC if that's something you feel like would help the game state move foward.

Please let me know if you are missing something from me.

I do want to slow the game down.

[skitter30]

I agree with thor for where the last scum lies.

Also I'm not sure I follow Pooky's reasoning fully, as assuming enchant/me is t/t, it would still make sense for inf to hammer there especially considering the proposed fall was me/enchant before the hammer. Why would inf interupt that if we were s/t.

Might be missing something though

^

Meg ignores here that Enchant/Meg is the proposed fall of KOBA.

Someone who is NOT trusted at all by the town - and would not be influential at all in the execution of our plan to leave Koba/Faker behind.

If the collective TOWN makes a decision about the two to trustfall together, it could easily be Meg/Infy who are assigned and this would be very bad for them if they are S/S.

Also even if Enchant/Meg trustfall together and it is T/S - it doesn't mean Koba falls with Infinity again once koba is proven wrong. If koba did then it would be a massive slew of reports for straight gamethrowing waiting for them.

ugh i read this like six times and i don't get it >.>
i'm a little slow tonight apparently

i'm a little slow tonight

[Faker]

I am missing nothing from you at the moment.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

sorry why did you suggest infinity/meg here (vs infintiy/enchant, meg/enchant, etc)
was it random or was there something more to it

because they were the first two players that Koba had proposed to.

I was explaining to Koba that it was strictly anti-town for either Meg/Infinity to trust Koba since they are better off trusting each other if they are T/T

[MegAzumarill]

Enchant probably is clear if they posted without hammering before infinty was trusted

^

she is saying Enchant is trusted but she's really talking about herself through the same logical lens

Same logic doesn't apply to me
Assume I'm Scum:
By the time I posted Inf was already trusted, and so either scum could go out.

But for Enchant, they chose not to leave even before their partner would've been able to. (what I specifically asked about)

[Faker]

(It is not trust testing that I am opposed to, it is rushing to do it for inutile over something more slow and thorough when very few, if it's even more than one, players has given concrete reason to townread it)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ugh i read this like six times and i don't get it >.>
i'm a little slow tonight apparently

i'm a little slow tonight

It's ok I sometimes skip a lot of things and I suck at explaining whats in my head a lot of times.

The overall feeling I get from Meg's posting post-koba/infy exit is that Meg is more interested in "Meg/Enchant are confirmed town by Koba fallacy" than solving for who the last scum is.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

(It is not trust testing that I am opposed to, it is rushing to do it for inutile over something more slow and thorough when very few, if it's even more than one, players has given concrete reason to townread it)

ok I am not proposing we rush the trust-test for Inutile.

that's why I am asking if anyone has a strong scum case for her.

I definitely do not want to rush anything

[MegAzumarill]

I've got to sleep.
See you guys in the morning.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

good night meg!