Mini 684: Quacks and Masons Mafia- Game Over

[Riceballtail]

VOTE:Light-Kun

Obvious SK.

[springlullaby]

Hi guys

So yeah, given the theme of the game, I think we should discuss strategy about how doctors (or quacks

qui s'ignore

) should perform to avoid overnight decimation of town population.

How about everyone who think they are doc just play as vanilla?

[raider8169]

If everyone plays as a vanilla then that would give scum free reign on killing.

I was trying to figure out if the day before everyone "claims" who they will protect and if that person dies then we can narrow it down. Of course at the same time it also gives scum ideas of who to night kill. Unless someone comes up with a real plan I am fine with letting everyone consider their options and do what they think is best.

[muffinhead]

My first ever vote count

Clammy (1)- Dattebayo
Light-Kun (1)- Riceballtail

Not Voting (10)- Pimhel, Sun Tsu, springlullaby,clammy,pacman281292,Netlava,Light-Kun,raider8169,roflcopter,sotty7

Its currently 7 votes required to lynch.

[Dattebayo]

If everyone plays as a vanilla then that would give scum free reign on killing.

I was trying to figure out if the day before everyone "claims" who they will protect and if that person dies then we can narrow it down. Of course at the same time it also gives scum ideas of who to night kill. Unless someone comes up with a real plan I am fine with letting everyone consider their options and do what they think is best.

In addition, the scum could false-claim doctor, and then we could end up thinking a quack is a doctor if a quack "protects" the scum-"doctor".

Having the doctor's play as vanilla doesn't have any advantages, but it also lacks the potential deaths that leaving the doctors to use their abilities has.

So, I'm leaning towards having the doctors be vanilla unless some one presents a more efficient way to deal with this dilemma.

[Netlava]

Somehow, I think going vanilla hands the advantage over to scum and kinda defeats the purpose of the game, but I guess I'll be fine with it if everyone else agrees. I'm trying to think of a way to make good use of the roles.

[raider8169]

Somehow, I think going vanilla hands the advantage over to scum and kinda defeats the purpose of the game, but I guess I'll be fine with it if everyone else agrees. I'm trying to think of a way to make good use of the roles.

The purpose of the game is to lynch scum. We have tools we can try and use to our advantage but they can backfire all the same. Im undecided right now but even if we all agree on to not use them I am sure someone still will. I dont think there is a way to figure out who it is and even so the person would be town.

[Dattebayo]

Somehow, I think going vanilla hands the advantage over to scum and kinda defeats the purpose of the game, but I guess I'll be fine with it if everyone else agrees. I'm trying to think of a way to make good use of the roles.

I don't like this post at all. If you think it hands the advantage over to the scum then you should not just go along with it if everyone else agrees. Just trying to go along and blend in with the crowd is a part of the scum agenda.

Unvote, Vote: Netlava

Anyway, if doctors act as vanilla townies, then the mafia tracker is stripped of its usefulness. So then the only power roles would be masons. Is that advantageous to the town?

[Netlava]

Vanilla + 3 masons vs scum is a slight advantage for scum, I believe. I'm willing to go along with things in this game because everyone has to follow the strategy for it to work. Anyways, here's my suggestion. Masons claim. Town chooses 3 towniest to protect them, the next 3 protect them, and 3 scummiest protect them. Any quacks discovered using this method will have to protect each other or lynched.

[Dattebayo]

I think quacks are townie, so they shouldn't be lynched. And there are only 6 players with "protecting roles", and your plan requires 9.

[Netlava]

If we can weed out both quacks, it will be a great boon and also we'll be looking to prevent the mafia from faking quack, thus restricting their kill choices.

In this plan, the mafia are expected to lie and claim doc.

[Dattebayo]

EBWOP:

I don't find your explanation satisfactory. If a plan gives the advantage to the scum, it is'nt going to work, so following along with it won't actually accomplish anything. If a plan is more beneficial for the scum than it is for the town, then you shouldn't go along with it regardless of the support it garners.

[Dattebayo]

Ah yes, what you're saying makes sense. I'll mull it over and come to a conclusion.

[Light-kun]

I am not voting anyone, and I don't count! Yay!

In my opinion, I think that the quacks are the only problem. The odd doctor minority is a really interesting game plan, but even if no one *cept mafia's nk* dies, it means that either the quacks just so happened to choose to not protect OR that the quacks chose mafia members to protect.

I don't think there is going to be a strategy that will effectively work except for the makings of one that Netlava has outlined. If we were to discover the quacks, then town would be at the advantage. This is obvious. What isn't obvious is the best way to achieve this.

Given the powers of the town, and the plausible hinderence, we can assume that we have masons, doctors, quacks, and mafia. Keeping mafia roles irrelevant, of course.

So: counting all docs/quacks as townies is stated to give mafia an advantage. I must say that this would give mafia an advantage, but more importantly, we should at least attempt to make use of the multiple doctor's protection abilities.

Following up, we could assume everyone in the town is a doctor, and assign doctor pairs a person to protect. This information could be useful for any pair of doctor's who happen to protect the same person, and that person dies, which would indicate one of two is a quack. Having even one doctor confirmed and a bunch of masons would be great. However, this plan also has some obvious flaws.

Another idea could consist of just having the doctor/quacks act on their own accord. This, however, has a chance of being very beneficial or left wide open on a bad choice for quack's night.

So far, none of these solutions address a method of "How do we isolate the quacks?"

Quite frankly, there isn't an easy way to do that. Say that person X is a doctor who claims. Well, we could have that person protect person Y, but if Mafia had a role blocker, then mafia could kill person Y, and we would speculate that X is still unknown and that the mafia has a role blocker to stop X. But, then, the doctor in question COULD BE a member of the mafia. Thus, controlling individual doctors is out.

The final verdict of this long, and over analytical thought process is that we are left with two choices:
1. Have all doctors/quacks on one accord that the town decides upon. The main weakness though is that mafia gains a slight advantage not just in power role standings but also gives the mafia a voice in how the Doctors/quacks act, which would let them further manipulate town strategy.
OR
2. Have all doctors/quacks act on their own whim, hoping that luck and good decisions are made to best ensure town victory. However, this can be based on chance rather than skill, and while I don't particularly *love* this plan, I will vote in favor of it just because I don't like option one as much.

The other plan is proven to be failure, and having the masons claim on d1 is both chimerical and ineffective. So, nyet to that I say.

As for Netlave: Even though your plan is fail, I have to wonder why you would think quacks should be lynched. It would be both safer and smarter to convert them...

(Having written this, it occurred to me that the masons may not be recruiting, so I will check that after posting. If no EBWOP, then obviously I think they are recruiting, or it is not stated in the beginning.)

[Riceballtail]

According to post 0:

Roles:
This game is an open set-up with the following roles

2 quacks
3 masons
4 doctors
3 mafia (2 goons, 1 tracker)

This is the extent of all roles in the game. There is no RB. The masons don't recruit. Mafia gets one kill, and one trace each night.

[Light-kun]

Then, we could test people with the doctor pairs thing...

Okay then, that makes sense, but I am not sure if we should isolate doctors as mentioned in my X-Y example. So, I am going to wait on other responses.

[raider8169]

Then, we could test people with the doctor pairs thing...

Okay then, that makes sense, but I am not sure if we should isolate doctors as mentioned in my X-Y example. So, I am going to wait on other responses.

The pair thing could result in 3 kills the first night. Can we afford that? Knowing that the 3 kills would all be town? Next thing is that the quacks could protect mafia and then we wouldnt have any information and the person could still think they are the real doctor.

I am wondering if when a quack dies will their role be revealed as a quack or just a doctor.

[muffinhead]

Just to let everyone know that the following rule has been removed.

5- Please pm me with all questions about the game. DO NOT post any questions in game thread.

This is because I've realised that it is understandable for people to ask questions in this sort of set-up. Also the fact that the answers of these questions should be seen by everybody so everyone can understand.

Of course questions about private communication are still to be asked by pm (that was the orginal reason for the rule). If you are unsure whether a question is about private communication then I suggest to pm me the question to confirm. Of course any question can be pmed if thats the way you prefer it. I didnt want to change any rules espically this early but I hope everyone can understand why I have done this. Sorry for any incovinience cause by this.

[muffinhead]

Vote Count

Netlava (1)- Dattebayo
Light-Kun (1)- Riceballtail

Not Voting (10)- Pimhel, Sun Tsu, springlullaby,clammy,pacman281292,Netlava,Light-Kun,raider8169,roflcopter,sotty7

Its currently 7 votes required to lynch.



Also just to inform everyone that when a quack dies, yes his role will be revealed as a quack

[clammy]

Okay, i think we can break this set-up by forcing an early mass-claim.

D1, 6 docs claims.
D2, 3 masons claim.

At one of those two points our scum have to make decisions, we'd likely wind up with 9 claimed docs, confirming three townies, distracting the scum, and then, if we played our nights well, leading to the uncovering of scum-lies.

I also have a plan for nights, but that is revealed further down the track...

[raider8169]

Okay, i think we can break this set-up by forcing an early mass-claim.

D1, 6 docs claims.
D2, 3 masons claim.

At one of those two points our scum have to make decisions, we'd likely wind up with 9 claimed docs, confirming three townies, distracting the scum, and then, if we played our nights well, leading to the uncovering of scum-lies.

I also have a plan for nights, but that is revealed further down the track...

If the scum are going to claim docs why not have the masons do the same? Is there really a reason to call out our masons? Based on this logic alone you can create a plan and then we can decide on it.

[clammy]

We want to be able to confirm those masons early, but only on D2, if any scum wants to fake-claim mason they can go for it as they'll quickly be shot down by 2-3 Masons confirming each other.

[raider8169]

We want to be able to confirm those masons early, but only on D2, if any scum wants to fake-claim mason they can go for it as they'll quickly be shot down by 2-3 Masons confirming each other.

Confirming the masons would only make them targets for all doctors, quacks and scum. How would this help out town?

[clammy]

As i've already said i have plans for the docs/quacks that i'm not going into, and the scum can be adequately distracted killing off our confirmed masons while we figure out their lies.

[Sotty7]

We want to be able to confirm those masons early, but only on D2, if any scum wants to fake-claim mason they can go for it as they'll quickly be shot down by 2-3 Masons confirming each other.

Why would scum fake claim mason at this point? They will just be shot down and outed in a heartbeat like you said. I don't see this as a likely thing for the scum to try. Way too many holes that would lead to their hot death.

The player in me really

hates

the idea of trying to break the set up. Time was put into the game for us to play, not to figure away to break it in half. That said, none of these plans really do that and right now and I'm trying to figure out what would be the best way to approach this.

For the record, I'm against a mass day one claim.