No, that's just wrong. Winning as little as a Pawn in the early game can lead to a game win.Pesco47 wrote:Piece advantage is meaningless if it's anything less than a knight or bishop.
I think that's the wrong mentality to take. With more pieces on the board, there are more oppportunities for traps and sneaky play, which directly favours black. If we simplify the board position, the extra heads gain the advantage.Pesco47 wrote:I said earlier that I would not favour trades, the only time this will be accepted, is when we gain board advantage as a result.
I'll take a pawn over a slight board control loss.Pesco47 wrote:Winning pawns isn't worth the loss in board control in the opening game.SensFan wrote:No, that's just wrong. Winning as little as a Pawn in the early game can lead to a game win.Pesco47 wrote:Piece advantage is meaningless if it's anything less than a knight or bishop.
Black has a RIDICULOUSLY HUGE advantage in privacy. We have absolutely no capability to set any form of trap. With a bunch of pieces on each side, black can pick off our pieces 1 by 1 for sure. If we can simplify it to some pawns and a few minor pieces each, we'll have a huge advantage.Pesco47 wrote:No matter what the number of pieces on the board, extra heads will still be better than however many players that are thinking for black. The equal tools available to us in the chessboard means that any board-related advantage black has, we also have. If there's a disadvantage for us, they'll also suffer from it.SensFan wrote:I think that's the wrong mentality to take. With more pieces on the board, there are more oppportunities for traps and sneaky play, which directly favours black. If we simplify the board position, the extra heads gain the advantage.Pesco47 wrote:I said earlier that I would not favour trades, the only time this will be accepted, is when we gain board advantage as a result.
We need to trade off or we will lose.Pesco47 wrote:I hope you realise how much more difficult it is to play a pawn endgame than a knight or bishop endgame.
And because black has their privacy, they can and will exploit any weakness in board position to turn the game un-winnable for us. White calls the shots with board dominance.
Your comment about taking pawns at a loss of board control tells me that you'd take a piece because it looks like it's for free. That's the kind of mentality that will lose us the chess game.
FoS SensFan
That's the generally-accepted rule. I still think we need to err on the side of trading, though.Goatrevolt wrote:As far as trading pieces goes, my rule of thumb is to trade when you're winning and don't trade when you're losing.Secondly, I never trade pieces "just because I can" but only try to do so if it looks like it is a legitimate benefit.
I suppose you don't read many master games, then? And by your own point, Black can't win, either, if we trade.Gorrad wrote:My granduncle was in the trenches. All they did down there was play chess. The one thing he passed down to my father about the game was 'You cannot vin vithout your Qveen'. So thanks, but I'd rather have not.
If they trade Queens, then we don't need to worry about out Bishop being stuck. If they place a Bishop there, I don't think Qe3 is too much to play at some point, for the sake on keeping their Bishop unpinned abd liberating ours.Goatrevolt wrote:Hm...actually Qe2->Nd5 doesn't sound too bad. I'll have to reconsider that.Pesco47 wrote:Qe2 pins whatever black moves into the way when we follow up with Nd5. Black taking the pawn in response was fairly predictable, that should give us an indication of who is scum by the level of their moves
Black really doesn't have any solutions for getting rid of that knight at d5. Then again, by trapping in our bishop, we don't have a whole lot of options for putting on additional pressure either...
I still think Bc4 is probably best, because we can always still do Qe2 (or Re1 depending on how things go) and follow with Nd5 later on, but we get our bishop out first.
Plus symbolizes Check.sirdanilot wrote:vote: Bc4
Moving the queen to e2 (why is that written as Qe2+ ? What does the plus mean?) blocks our bishop so we're better off moving the bishop first, then we can consider the queen move.
Oh, just realized I'm parroting goatrevolt here. Anyway, Bc4 is the best move right now so we should do it I guess. White's doing rather well so far, in my opinion.
Really? I think that Black's best answer to 6. Qe2+ is 6. ...Qe7, which leads to 7. Qxe7+ Bxe7. Black would be idiotic to let us pin their Bishop imo.Indigo Heron wrote:@SensFan (Sorry, I was typing out my post, didn't saw yours): Unfortunately, I don't think that even Black will be as idiotic as to play 6. ...Qe7. Refer back to one of my previous posts (#113, I think).
I disagree. The Black Bishop still needs to move again before it can do anything, so regardless of Black's move, we are up a Minor piece in devellopment.Indigo Heron wrote:Scenario 1 is slightly better for Black. Black has a good chance of equalising the game, thanks to our suicidal queen. It has brought Black's bishop out, leading to better freedom of movement compared to White, which still needs to castle (what I'd do) to attack.
I will glady give up a single move to devellop my Queen and pin an enemy Bishop on the 7-rank. Especially when said Queen is under no threat sitting at e3.Indigo Heron wrote:Scenario 2 is no good for White. Black has an even better chance of equalising, since White has lost tempo to regain freedom of movement for its [bishop].
Dubious move?Indigo Heron wrote:Oh crap, Pesco, how did I miss that?!
You misinterpretted me. It was a joke based on your use of "?!", hense the bold.Indigo Heron wrote:Not in my head, SensFan, after seeing it play out in my head.SensFan wrote:Dubious move?
I think it was because we were debating it so my brain forgot about any other move, concentrating on the possible moves we had.
More importantly, given that Black hasn't moved anything but Pawns and Knights, do you really think that delaying a castle by 2-3 moves wil harm us?Pesco47 wrote:Moving the bishop so you can castle is nice and all, but have you got a followup to screw black over with?
Oh, right. Because its not like 6. Qe2+ stops them from checking us...Gorrad wrote:No one had brought up castling, so I figured it should be on the table. I have a follow-up, but it's defensive. And yes, I think it might, as I'm quite wary of the black queen's ability to check us.
Oh, right, sorry. Forgot that darn rule that if neither player has a Queen, the game ends in a draw, since its impossible to checkmate your opponent without a Queen...Gorrad wrote:By doing a trade I dislike.
I assume you mean working towards a stalemate?Gorrad wrote:Move: Ph4
I've got a plan.
But there is no other outcome, remember? Neither side has a Queen...Gorrad wrote:Not even.
Wow, I'm dumb. Sorry, completely blanked.Gorrad wrote:Ah. That's where you're coming from. We do have queens. We still have a shot. I plan on using that shot.
I assume you strongly undervalue how much of a boost it is to win a pawn...Gorrad wrote:Liberates it to do what? Take a pawn with no follow-up? I prefer threatening the knight.
Your play should not be different in the slightest whether your opponent is a Grand Master or has only learned how to move the pieces.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Maybe with two grandmasters material advantage makes all of the difference... but among us mortals I think we should consider other aspects of the game.
Right. But why should the skill of either player dictate whether a certain move is good or not?Pesco47 wrote:But don't forget that we're just common folk too.SensFan wrote:Your play should not be different in the slightest whether your opponent is a Grand Master or has only learned how to move the pieces.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Maybe with two grandmasters material advantage makes all of the difference... but among us mortals I think we should consider other aspects of the game.
That's complete bullshit. First of all, 51%+ agreed with the move, plan on FoSing them, too? Next, explain exactly what the problem is with pinning the Black Bishop to e7.veerus wrote:6. Qe2 Be7 -- ?? Qe2?? and slow white's development to a screeching hault??FOS: SensFanfor first suggesting it, though his 7. Qe3 follow-up is decent (but the whole move sequence is wasteful).. 6. Bc4 was best here.
Yeah, you're so right that that's a hard-fast rule that can never be broken. I mean, imagine how dumb black would have to be to move the Queen in the following scenario:veerus wrote:3) it broke one of the cardinal rules of chess -- we brought the queen out too early
I would argue that an empty (but for the Kings) e-file is a similar, though less extreme, case, though.veerus wrote:Oh ok, let's set up scenarios to fit a bad argument. That'll show me!
Fine. What about 1. e4 e5 2. bc4 bc5 3. qh5 Nf6 4. Qxf7#The Central Scrutinizer wrote:That was poorly worded. I'm pretty sure you can't use fool's mate to demonstrate that a general rule of playing good chess is wrong... because no one even remotely mediocre is going to play that opening for white.
Oh, of course, replace SensFan. Don't bother prodding him, since Mister veerus obviously knowbs best...veerus wrote:Probably not a bad idea.. The game really stagnated in the last week or two. I'm in another game that Sensfan is modding and he hasn't been heard from in like a week, so a replacement or two may be in order as well.
You shouldn't have been expecting a reaplcecement PERIOD. And I was never gone anywhere.veerus wrote:Our mod hadn't been heard from in over a week too so I wasn't really expecting a sudden replacement out of nowhere. :p Wb.SensFan wrote:Oh, of course, replace SensFan. Don't bother prodding him, since Mister veerus obviously knowbs best...veerus wrote:Probably not a bad idea.. The game really stagnated in the last week or two. I'm in another game that Sensfan is modding and he hasn't been heard from in like a week, so a replacement or two may be in order as well.
A warning, as a back-up to Nat's game, I will do everything in my power to make sure you do not get accepted in that game if you request replacement out of this one. Keep your commitments.Pesco47 wrote:Those pawn advances are sub-par moves.
Pre-emp notice to all: I am losing interest in this game and it is my top candidate to bail if Natirasha's MSG gets started soon. I won't need to drop if AitH finishes before that happens.
Unless we win it, in which case we likely win the game...Pesco47 wrote:The b4 pawn is actually of very little consequence to the game right now.
How do you figure? It is dead if it is removed from the board, or there is a forced play to remove it from the board. Currently, neither is the case.Pesco47 wrote:It can be considered a dead piece.
It devellops the Bishop, and allows us to devellop the Rook, and hides the King.Pesco47 wrote:Bringing out the bishop on Bd2 only frees up the castling option
Are you insane? We have a lead in devellopment, we need to castle now, then capitalize on the fact their King is stuck in the center, before they can catch up!Pesco47 wrote:but the move of castling should definitely be deferred until Black has been removed from the center.
