Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)

Goatrevolt · Post Post #550 (ISO) » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:38 pm

Lawrencelot wrote:But if we do something else than Qb3, they will also probably move d5, and we can do Qb3 after that. Like someone (veerus?) said, our Queen is not under attack right now.

There is a difference, though.

1. We move Qb3. Black moves d5. Now the ball is in our court and we again get to make the move we want, hopefully pressuring black. We keep the tempo.

2. We move something else. Black moves d5. Now we have to move our queen out of the way to Qb3. Then it's black's move again, but this time the ball is in their court and they get to make the move they want, potentially putting pressure on us. Now they have the tempo.

Anyway, I looked through:

11. Qb3, d5
12. Ne5

and

11. Qb3, d5
12. Bd2

and I can't find anywhere in either variation where we can establish any kind of advantage.

Indigo Heron · Post Post #551 (ISO) » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:25 am

Well, my chain of thought was 11. Qb3 d5 12. Ne5...

So...

move: Qb3

veerus · Post Post #552 (ISO) » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:24 pm

Why? The queen will not be under attack, therefore black has no reason to move d5. After such a passive and tempo-giving move, black would be better off continuing development with b5. If we keep mucking around with our queen, the eventual sequence of Bb7-Bd5 will ruin any hopes of winning.

Also, keep in mind, as your move 12 implies, d5 allows us to park a knight on e5 without an easy way to get it off.

The Central Scrutinizer · Post Post #553 (ISO) » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:05 pm

People... we cannot plan eight moves ahead. Black can. What move gives us the best position? Stop thinking in terms of plans and start thinking in terms of board position, points of power, and the center... in other words, we need to play hypermodern.

I'm beginning to think, given the discussion so far, that it's impossible for white to win in this format, and that sooner or later we're going to be obligated to lynch the people that seemed to lead us away from good moves. So with that in mind, I'm going to start rereading and hunting... because right now I think White is circling the drain.

MafiaSSK · Post Post #554 (ISO) » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:51 pm

Moves
Bd2(2)-SensFan,Pesco47
d5(2)- The Central Scrutinizer,Lawrencelot
Be2(1)-Veerus
Qb3(1)-Indigo Heron

People
Veerus(1)-The Central Scrutinizer
The Central Scrutinizer(1)-Veerus

Fixed.

sirdanilot · Post Post #555 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:58 am

You can hunt if you want, but don't lynch because it gives black the chance to kill someone, even if we lynch scum (and chances are relatively low). We should finish the chess game before we start hunting and lynching and playing mafia. If you suspect someone, FoS them and you can vote them when we enter the mafia phase of the game.

The Central Scrutinizer · Post Post #556 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:36 am

I hope black kills someone. We have too much committee and not enough chess right now imo.

veerus · Post Post #557 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:42 am

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:People... we cannot plan eight moves ahead. Black can. What move gives us the best position? Stop thinking in terms of plans and start thinking in terms of board position, points of power, and the center... in other words, we need to play hypermodern.

QFT.

And d5 does NOT give us the best position.. so why are you voting for it? I like my vote on you, scum.

SensFan · Post Post #558 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:13 am

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I hope black kills someone. We have too much committee and not enough chess right now imo.

If Black kills someone, we lose our only advantage, the number of eyes we have. And if we mislynch, then Black has even more say in our moves.

sirdanilot · Post Post #559 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:18 am

fos tcs

I would vote you but then I'd be the pot calling the kettle black! You'll be my #1 candidate when we enter the mafia phase of the game.

SensFan · Post Post #560 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:23 am

SSK, can you PLEASE fix the votecount? Half the people aren't in one of the two lists, as far as I can tell...

MafiaSSK · Post Post #561 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:17 am

SensFan wrote:SSK, can you PLEASE fix the votecount? Half the people aren't in one of the two lists, as far as I can tell...

Sorry. My fault

SensFan · Post Post #562 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:26 pm

MafiaSSK wrote:
SensFan wrote:SSK, can you PLEASE fix the votecount? Half the people aren't in one of the two lists, as far as I can tell...

Sorry. My fault

Ummm...mind fixing it?

The Central Scrutinizer · Post Post #563 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:27 pm

SensFan wrote:
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:I hope black kills someone. We have too much committee and not enough chess right now imo.
If Black kills someone, we lose our only advantage, the number of eyes we have. And if we mislynch, then Black has even more say in our moves.

Feh. Black doesn't have to force a bad move, just distract us, and the damage is done.

This is chess... if mafia is binary, scum and not-scum, chess is base-12 algebra.

Thin the herd I say.

Pesco47 · Post Post #564 (ISO) » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:29 am

Lynching would take less days than moves needed to end the chess game. We still need to play a move to end the day, when we do start lynching, we can just play moves to stall the chess game after the lynch is decided. I'm up for normal scumhunting when that time comes.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #565 (ISO) » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:54 pm

I don't see how lynching right now could possibly improve our chances of winning in any way. If we mislynch, we give black greater say in our moves, and the chance to night kill whomever is the biggest threat to them. That seems like it would pretty much end any chance of us winning on the board. Unless, of course, you're declaring that we've already lost on the board, in which case I'd have to disagree.

I think our key to winning is to make fundamentally sound moves and hope to win via black making a mistake or us simply achieving a superior position (which I guess requires black to make a mistake) and inching our way to a win. We can't really trick them, we just need to hope they screw up and then play a solid game until we win.

Goatrevolt · Post Post #566 (ISO) » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:57 pm

Also:

Indigo Heron wrote:Well, my chain of thought was 11. Qb3 d5 12. Ne5...

So...

move: Qb3

You moved Qb3 right after I just said I didn't see anything good coming from that variation. Have you looked through this line?

Pesco47 · Post Post #567 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:16 am

I think we should come to realise that winning on the board could take up to 30+ mafia game days. Lynching, although unfavourable, is far more realistic. And when black has sufficient numbers to force moves, they would have won already by being able to force lynches too anyway.

Mod: Deadline please?

veerus · Post Post #568 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:28 am

Pesco, I'm convinced you're scum. In addition to voting for moves through most of the game without much of a reason, you rarely give analysis and now you have asked for a deadline at a key junction in the game to hurry the town into making the wrong decision. This is about as anti-town as it gets.

unvote; vote: Pesco47

MafiaSSK · Post Post #569 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:57 am

Pesco47 wrote:I think we should come to realise that winning on the board could take up to 30+ mafia game days. Lynching, although unfavourable, is far more realistic. And when black has sufficient numbers to force moves, they would have won already by being able to force lynches too anyway.

Mod: Deadline please?

None as of yet.

MafiaSSK · Post Post #570 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:58 am

Moves
Bd2(2)-SensFan,Pesco47
d5(2)- The Central Scrutinizer,Lawrencelot
Be2(1)-Veerus
Qb3(1)-Indigo Heron

People
Veerus(1)-The Central Scrutinizer
Pesco47(1)-Veerus

Pesco47 · Post Post #571 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:07 am

Let's be realistic about how many mafia game days we will need to actually win a chess game. We're all sitting around with nobody budging from their moves and not reaching a clear majority. If this game is to avoid abandonment, a deadline is to be in place.

The voting record for moves is no indication of scummy or not. If you want to call me scum, then get a better case. All the reasons you've given for me being scum can be applied to the other players too and I don't see you calling them on those same points.

As an aside to the lack of activity in this game, I think it's a design flaw that some sort of chess clock system wasn't implemented to keep the players participating.

Awesome Pants · Post Post #572 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:10 am

Fine. Deadline will be January 17th.

veerus · Post Post #573 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:22 am

Pesco47 wrote:As an aside to the lack of activity in this game, I think it's a design flaw that some sort of chess clock system wasn't implemented to keep the players participating.

I'll agree with you there. I was thinking that too. The game would benefit from a clock, maybe with incremental moves (as in 2 months + 1 week for each move made or something).

sirdanilot · Post Post #574 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:38 am

As an aside to the lack of activity in this game, I think it's a design flaw that some sort of chess clock system wasn't implemented to keep the players participating.

this

Also, for some reason I got this error message: Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.

I would really like to see that people stop voting each other. I don't see the point that is being made about the amount of mafia days, does it even matter at all?