Mafia 87 - New Age Mafia - Game Over!

[ribwich]

/confirm

[ribwich]

Vote: Jazzmyn

because oh my god you suck.

[ribwich]

I wouldn't really call what's happening right now to be rolefishing though. It's still not helpful to the town, but as long as nobody's stupid enough to go "Okay, I won't protect anybody because you think I'm an insane doc." it shouldn't provide any help to the scum.

I've never even heard of an insane doctor, but I'm assuming that means they think they're a doctor but everyone they protect actually dies instead. So, they're basically a vigilante that thinks they're a doctor? In that case, I would think there's no chance that they know from PM about this. What would be the point in calling them a doctor then?

Using Caboose algorithm for psychoanalysis of posts, I have determined that, without a doubt, al4xz is scum.

How did I miss this?

Vote: al4xz

[ribwich]

EBWOP:

Unvote
Vote: al4xz

[ribwich]

There's also the 'CPR doctor', who protects his target if someone tries to kill them, but kills them if no one else tries to. It would actually make sense to tell that kind of doctor what they are.

That sounds like an awful role to have.

Looking at who died though, I think it's much more likely we aren't dealing with one of these kinds of doctors. It looks to me that farside22 was the mafia pick, curiouskarmadog tried protecting scum and got killed for it, and Xtoxm got killed by some third party.

Just of curiosity, if curiouskarmadog had tried to protect Xtoxm, would Xtoxm have not died then?

[ribwich]

Well obviously he wants to get you lynched since your mathematical abilities make it so that town will win automatically.

[ribwich]

I'm a little lost here. Why would discussing the possibility of serial killers and second mafia groups be unhelpful to town?

[ribwich]

Okay, that makes sense. I will quit talking about it then.

[ribwich]

And I agree with strife. The wording of Sche's comment is very interesting. Initially I did not catch it but he was interested in who killed the scum player.

I don't see where the issue is with this. There's already good odds in the favor of us knowing what happened to the other two players. Xtoxm is the only one that we're really unsure about. And like ZazieR said, the odds of it being a pro town role is very slim unless that person was playing dumb.

And why are you so afraid of putting a vote now? Votes can put pressure on people, and it's a good way to get scumtells to come out. I may be partially biased though because I've never liked using FoS, but I think votes are a much better way to get your point across.

For making what I feel are invalid claims on someone and then not even really voting for them out of fear of making a bandwagon (and to help show that votes accomplish more than FoS's)

Unvote: al4xz Vote: Juls

[ribwich]

It would be nice.

[ribwich]

I don't think what Scheherazade has done is very suspicious, but I do agree that any more talk about the setup should be ended.

[ribwich]

Not only would it be idiotic of me, town or scum, to role-fish bluntly in the first post, only someone who skims posts rather than reading them would assume that I was role-fishing.

Except you were role-fishing. You even said it yourself, you just called it "role-fishing for scum."

At first I was thinking that what you did was just an honest mistake. There's a chance I would have even made a similar post at the time since I was unaware of how it could be bad for town. (Although now I can very easily see why it is.) But, for you to even deny that what you did was role-fishing makes me more suspicious of you.

Unvote: Juls
Vote: Scheherazade

[ribwich]

1. Scheh is a skilled Mafia player who did a good job hiding his true intentions behind the mask of a Townie. Scum.
2. Inexperienced player to Mafia. Town/Scum. - Out of the question, he's claimed experience. And if he denies that, he's a liar. LAL! Cept for doc liars.
3. Slip-up made by a skilled mafia player, but was read differently from what he ment to convey. Town.

If the first were the case, I wouldn't exactly say he did a good job at it.

[ribwich]

L-3 isn't a big deal either. If scum is actually dumb enough to turn that into a quicklynch, they might as well paint targets on their heads.

[ribwich]

Percy made very many valid points in his post, and your refusal to even try to defend yourself against them just makes you look more suspicious.

[ribwich]

I was looking for a over-the-rooftops explosion from Juls, or something along those lines. Something involving attention shifting from Juls. Seeing as I didn't get any reaction (or very little), I decided to call off my little bluff.

I'm not really surprised at all that it didn't work, but I can see what you were trying to do. The problem is that the people that did notice pretty much only saw that as you making a meaningless vote, and if Juls saw it before you explained she probably just assumed it wasn't even worth responding to.

There is nothing behind it. He's deluded. Clear scumtells

If by clear scumtells you were referring to that OMGUS you just did, plus the unprovoked vanilla townie claim and statement that we should look elsewhere, then I agree. Those do look like clear scumtells.

I still think Scheherazade is suspicious, but you look even scummier in my eyes.

Unvote: Scheherazade Vote: Der Hammer

[ribwich]

First off, can everyone please preview your posts before you submit it? Those broken quote tags are annoying.

@rib:
I feel the need to point out that his vanilla townie claim came in defense to strife's declaring him as part of a scumpair with scheh. But you are correct in that it was still unproviked.

I understand why he did it, but it was still completely unneccesary. Nobody should be claiming that early.

Yes, completely sarcastic. The original comment I made was completely sincere, and mere commentary on the start of the game since I was in a rush, and just wanted to post my first post of the game before people accused me of lurking. I reacted badly to your initial misjudging of my statement and acted childishly. It end of esuclated from there really, and its interesting to see who has jumped on my bandwagon..

So at what point were you not being sarcastic anymore? Were these legit posts or just more childish acting?

I'm not linked with Sheh in anyway, just a lowly vanilla. Look elsewhere good sirs and madams.

There is nothing behind it. He's deluded. Clear scumtells

There's a few things I want to say about Scheherazade, but that's going to take a while. To be honest, I've only skimmed through his last few posts, so I want to make sure it's not things that have been already addressed.

[ribwich]

ribwich is also sort of on my radar for changing his vote and mind so often. Obviously, I thought he had less than valid reasons to vote for me, but I think his explanation of his vote for Juls doesn't quite justify a vote. And the vote for al4xz may have been a joke, but was there any call for it? I mean, al4xz already had votes and therefore pressure on him. ribwich's comment looks like "lol, I'm bandwagoning." In six pages he's voted for four different people.

First off, I've voted for five people. If you're going to accuse me of rapid vote changing, do it right. The first two were clearly jokes. The vote on Juls was merely to prove a point that voting accomplishes more than FoS's. (And it was so I could get my vote off of a random/joke vote.) I then had my vote on you because I felt you were the most suspicious at the time. Then Hammer made some comments that made me more suspicious of him, so my voted shifted. I'm going to have my vote on whoever I feel is most suspicious at the time, and in day one that is most likely going to change quite a bit.

[ribwich]

@ribwich: Why do you suspect Der Hammer more than Scheherazade?

Well, a lot of it is going to depend on how Hammer responds to my question of how many of his posts were serious, but right now it's because I can still give the benefit of the doubt to Scheherazade. Even after all that's happened, I can understand how someone can legitmately think what he was doing would help the town. Hammer, on the otherhand, has done things that I can't understand why a townie would do. He's OMGUS'd, claimed when he was nowhere near being lynched, and told us that we should look elsewhere rather than try to find something out of his posts.

[ribwich]

al4xz, I just want to make sure I understand your reasoning. Are you suspicious of Percy because you believe the distancing between him and Schez is artificial? If yes, does this mean you would no longer be suspicious of Percy if Schez was confirmed to be town?

[ribwich]

Actually, that was a bad choice of words on my part. I meant if Schez were lynched and then the mod told us he was town.

[ribwich]

I suppose it's because it's similar to how somebody that brings up the possibility of a jester is usually scum trying to save their partner. But I don't really think bringing up the possibility of a godfather would really be detrimental to town. I think in a closed game we should be always be wary of things like godfathers and cop sanity.

[ribwich]

ROLEFISHING ROLEFISHING OMGOBVSCUMRAWR weeEEEEEEEEEOOOOOooooo

Would you mind if I used that for a signature? That is probably the best thing I've read on this site.

[ribwich]

That one was good too, but it didn't make me almost spit water out.

[ribwich]

Der Hammer, I'm still waiting on an answer. At what point were you no longer playing childishly and your posts can actually be considered serious?

[ribwich]

Ah, I already explained this. No matter.
Alright, here's the situation in a nutshell (or in a forum, however you wish to see it). Juls posts something kinda scummy. One or two people jump on the wagon in quick succession. I decide to join in but with a no reasoning vote so that I would appear scummy. In this way, if Juls was a scum, she might attempted to direct attention to me since I voted w/o reasoning behind it in that post.

I've seen people do these types of things all the time as townies, but I've never understood why. The biggest problem with it is how are you supposed to know if Juls is scum trying to divert a bandwagon or town that honestly thought you were acting scummy?

[ribwich]

As I already said, I was looking for a general reaction. I can't really classify anything for you. Apoligies.

And I understand that. The way you did it didn't seem that scummy, so if Juls did attack you heavily for it it would have made her look suspicious. I mainly wanted to just express why I don't like it incase anybody else thinks of doing something similar. There's one thing I was curious about though. Were you already suspicious of Juls at the time, or did you just see an opportunity to try that out and wanted to see what would happen?

[ribwich]

Thanks for the reminder on that.

Still waiting to hear from Der Hammer....

[ribwich]

I'm not sure if Der Hammer is ignoring my question or if he just keeps missing it. Maybe this will make it stand out more.

Der Hammer, at what point were your posts serious?

Ribwich is pinging my scumdar a bit for his vote hopping, and his discussion of setup long after it ought to have ceased.

Are you referring to my question to al4xz? It was not intended for that to lead to more setup discussion. I had just not worded it properly and the question was misinterpretted.

[ribwich]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Glad someone agrees with me.

Comments like this make me wonder if you're even trying at this game. You're either horrible at detecting sarcasm, or you're actually encouraging anti-town behavior. My vote on you is staying.

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

Somebody clearly didn't read Vi's wiki page.

[ribwich]

Der Hammer, what specifically is it about strife's interactions with you that make you suspicious of him? Even if it turns out that you are town, I do not believe that strife has done anything wrong. The way I look at it, you were acting scummy and strife called you out on it. And why specifically him instead of the rest of us that are voting for you? Is it just because he was the first one to accuse you?

[ribwich]

I'm pretty sure it's yours that made it nine. Either way, Der Hammer is hammered.

[ribwich]

I'm not really clear what people were getting at with the 'at least Scheh is trying, DH is just useless' argument. Scheh has made 1 constructive post through the entire game - the rest were defenses.

I'm pretty sure those were used as lesser of two evil arguments. Has DH made any constructive posts?

[ribwich]

I agree with iam. It seemed like an unnecessary comment and an attempt to "look town."

I also don't like Gerrendus's "I think Scheh is scummier but I'll vote Hammer because he's more useless" vote.

[ribwich]

To the people suspicious of Al4xz and/or Gerrendus: I'm assuming this means you are just as much if not more suspicious of Scheh? Their actions making them scum only really makes sense to me under the assumption that Scheh is also scum.

[ribwich]

How so?

If Scheh were town, I don't think they would have been making those comments. I don't even think they would have bothered changing their vote, since a lynch on either Scheh or Der would have essentially been the same. Why risk getting more attention on yourself unless you were protecting your partner?

[ribwich]

However, I think al4xz and Gerrendus have explained themselves well enough that I don't have much suspicions. I'll also want to do a reread of the previous day.

[ribwich]

Looking through the thread again, one person that sticks out to me is TAX. He hasn't really done anything other than random voting, suspecting people without actually voting, and then just dissapears until he conveniently shows up right when the day is over. Looks to me like he's trying to avoid getting noticed.

Vote: TAX

My suspicions for Scheh are pretty much the same as they were before. If he is scum, I have a good feeling at least one of the people that switched their vote to Hammer at the end are also scum.

[ribwich]

Even if Zade is town, I think they'd have an incentive to switch votes just to end the day as soon as possible, before anyone had a chance to present a decent case on anyone else and maybe stop us from limiting ourselves to two lynch candidates. If it didn't seem like anyone was particularly eager to switch from Hammer to Zade, and I think that was probably the case, then they'd have to go the other way for this to happen.

True, but I don't think the incentive was very strong since the deadline was approaching soon anyway and it looked very unlikely that anyone else was going to be a lynch candidate.

[ribwich]

Well, since my entire argument against TAX is that he was a useless player, since he's getting replaced anyway I'm going to go ahead and

unvote

Personally speaking, this will provide us more information, and we don't need a village idiot dragging us down later on in the game (wasting a lynch now to gain some info is alright, wasting a lynch later can be disastorous). Hey, I just realzied something:

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

You know what I just realized, there's no 'if' in that quote. You refer to DH as village idiot, without an 'if', and you're talking about wasting a lynch, without an 'if'. I have some problems with this.

I knew there was something I never liked about that post, but somehow I kept missing that. I think I was just mentally putting in the "if DH is town" part. Because really, it was a completely valid argument if that was included. But the way he wrote that, it looks like he already knew DH was going to be town.

[ribwich]

And I'm unsure how not having a 'if' on the wasting lynch part is bad.

Well, to me it implies that you already knew the lynch was going to be a waste.

[ribwich]

It's hard to see, because it looks like he forgot to italize it, but it's in 345 right after your comment about the village idiot comment.

"You know what I just realized, there's no 'if' in that quote. You refer to DH as village idiot, without an 'if', and you're talking about wasting a lynch, without an 'if'. I have some problems with this." - You

"To me, a Village Idiot is basically anyone who plays like an utter fool, whether they are town or not. And I'm unsure how not having a 'if' on the wasting lynch part is bad." - Him

[ribwich]

i think i'm the only lurker who actually WANTS people to acknowledge my existence in this game, but that apparently ain't happenin'

*runs and hides in lurkerdom again*

I just assumed you hadn't fully caught up yet since there weren't any real posts from you. Why are you trying to lurk?

[ribwich]

I can't tell you how, but I believe in some way in the english language that CAN mean 'if we waste a lynch now for information it's alright, ..." However, I suggest we take a quick vote on tihs right now. Perhaps your english grammar is better than mine. Take a vote everyone - who thinks this can mean both or can it only mean that I already knew the DH hammer was a waste?

It COULD mean that, which is why I didn't send a vote towards you right away. The question is DID it mean that, which is something we'll probably never know for sure. This is one of those times where we're at a disadvantage by playing this online instead of in person. Had I actually seen you say that, your body language would have given your intentions away.

It's not solid enough evidence for me, but it does give off the impression that it could have been a scum slip up. Right now though, it's not enough for me to vote for you. All it does is make me more suspicious of you.

[ribwich]

Understandable, since it looks like a clear attempt to say that "oh, I'm not scum because scum..." I would be suspicious of YOU if you didn't find that scummy.

Wait...so why did you say it?

[ribwich]

Damnit, it's happening again. I get so bored of reading arguments that Scheh and his opponent make that I skim through it. =.= I'll have to do a thorough analysis of the arguments..

Both Jazz and Sche need to be more concise...

You both give me a headache. All the words end up blurring.

QFT. Way too late for me to read all of that. I'll try to get to it tomorrow.

[ribwich]

i think i'm the only lurker who actually WANTS people to acknowledge my existence in this game, but that apparently ain't happenin'

*runs and hides in lurkerdom again*

I just assumed you hadn't fully caught up yet since there weren't any real posts from you. Why are you trying to lurk?

Reposted because it got ignored last time. You still haven't really contributed anything other than saying al4xz should claim. Why do you want al4xz to claim? Do you find him suspicious?

Mod, I took my vote off of TAX(Percy) a while ago.

[ribwich]

Vote: Puta Puta

Putting someone at L-1 that you don't find scummy because it's "fun and exciting" isn't pro-town.

[ribwich]

Because he is scummy?? don't question my expertise noobz

So....when I asked you if you thought he was scummy and you replied "Nope!".....that was a lie?

[ribwich]

You still haven't really contributed anything other than saying al4xz should claim. Why do you want al4xz to claim? Do you find him suspicious?

nope, claims are fun and exciting. it would be more fun if alx4z makes a riddle and the solution is his role.

[ribwich]

Is it possible however that PP did this becuase he is a symp?

Could you explain this? I don't understand what you mean.

[ribwich]

I'm here. Will get caught up soon.

[ribwich]

I am posting this in all of my games. Due to upcoming finals I will be unable to be as active as I normally am. I will try to respond to any direct questions somebody has for me, but that will be about all I can do for about a week.