Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[curiouskarmadog]

so you agree with me that BA was Opportunistically jumping on wagons, he tried to deflect a wagon off of KNOWN SCUM onto KNOWN TOWN, and his is not trying to scum hunt today or yesterday, but you still think I am the better lynch today because I hammered someone that you yourself had your vote on?

CKD: Yes your the best person for me to vote on.

just want to put both of these posts together..so if something should happen to me tonight(or today), someone will follow up with this later.

Sek, I think i have gotten all the clarification I am going to get out of Emp...he agrees with my case on BA, but thinks I am scummer.

New question Emp....lets say the town agrees with you (and EA) at Days end and lynches me. When I flip town..will you pursue my case tomorrow on BA, or will you continue ignoring it?

[ShadowGirl]

Okay, I think that we're getting back into an argument about the definition of "cleared". I said on day one that I said that "cleared", to me, meant "not scummy." And, again, Empking, I was in no way trying to prove his innocence. I explained my thought process to CKD in post 340. Also, no one knew that Stef was scum on the first day, so you can't hold that against me.

His scum buddies would know. :/

Busy thanksgiving, I'll do a small reread today - I realize my posts have been a bit low content, and I apologize.

[Empking]

If their's nothing scummier then I'd follow your case.

[sekinj]

What took you so long to answer them?

So basicly half your argument was wrong?

He hasn't asked for confirmation in ages.

CKD: Yes your the best person for me to vote on.

are you kidding me.

Vote: Emking

this is OMGUS all the way. I cannot stand this attitude. i ask for clarification, he asked me basically RHETORICAL questions and then refused to be reasonable. I am pissed.

[Empking]

No in fact:

You lied, I asked a reasonable question and tried to be reasonable.

How is it OMGUS? I want proof.

[sekinj]

unvote

I will not be responding too or acknowledging empking for the rest of this game day at least.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Empking is being foolish. I'm not sure whether to chalk that up to scumminess or foolishness.

EA's dismissal of the BA case is more interesting. I'd like to hear more from him, and why in particular he thought going after cybele over a minor D1 question was worth pursuing.

[Jebus]

Well, my computer's fixed and I'm back for now. I'ma read up a bit.

For now, though, anyone have any questions for me to look into?

[curiouskarmadog]

Well, my computer's fixed and I'm back for now. I'ma read up a bit.

For now, though, anyone have any questions for me to look into?

your thoughts on my case against BA?
your thoughts on my FoS at the beginning of the day?
Your thoughts on Emp and EA's "case" against me?
your thoughts on lurkers...

[Erratus Apathos]

your reason for voting cybele was completely different from mine.

I voted her Day 1 because she attacked skitzer for unvoting but not revoting...you are voting her

Not impressed by the BA case.

Vote: Cybele

I still expect an answer to this:

It wasn't "Oops, RANDOM!", it was always a joke.

...and what exactly was funny about it?

you are voting her because you want her to explain a joke...

unless I am not understanding why you are voting her....was cybele stating that her skitzer vote was a random joke vote?

Yes you and I didn't have exactly the same reason for voting, but that's not the point. The point is that yesterday you voted Cybele for the "random" skitzer vote. Then she lurked for the rest of the day, and today you pushed BA's wagon instead. What sets off my radar is when I pressure Cybele for the things you were supposedly curious about day 1 and she never explained, you now try to draw my vote off of her like it's a bad thing. You can say "BA is a higher priority!" all you want here, but if you were legitimately suspicious towards Cybele's random revote you wouldn't have any problem with my questioning of her even if you felt BA was scummier. That you did have a problem with it, indicates to me that you don't have the townie curiosity.

[Erratus Apathos]

ok going back, it looks like EA IS indeed asking Cybele to explain her explanation for voting skitzer as a joke,, so I think i misunderstood there. But the question still stands. given all the shit that happened yesterday, you are still harping on that? Might be worth looking at it later, but it is not enough to blatantly ignore what is going on today....I think BA is a much better lynch. You said you didnt like the BA case...why? What part of it do you not like? Seems to me that his actions yesterday should be at least warranting some sort of alarms, but you just seem to ignore it. And you dont find the fact that Emp is dodging my question interesting either?

I'm not ignoring BA. I came right out and said that I don't find him suspicious, I'd think that would imply that I'm paying attention to him.

Once you get past BA's misuse of the word "clear", the main argument against him boils down to "he linked tajo to Stef". Which is true, but his reasons for linking them, and for attacking tajo rather than Stef, made sense at the time. Am I really supposed to believe that a townie couldn't read tajo's "give Stef some slack because he has a South Park avatar" bullshit and draw a connection? That makes sense to me.

Unless the wagon on BA is

because

he misused the word "clear", in which case I should EBWOP a few million "really"s onto my "not impressed" post.

What question did Empking dodge? I don't see it.

[Electra]

This is just the first part of one post, I have to go now, but if I don't post it, I will lose it.

armlx - attacks Stef for WIFOM, votes stef after ooba has meta, pursues Stef for a little bit, but then votes P-T after a while; scummyrelation level: low
blakadder - random votes Stef(!!scum partner random vote?), finds P-T and Stef suspicious, the infamous "Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town. " which I don't find to be much of a read unless BlakAdder is newbie scum. (is he?) a lot of stuff about how he wasn't defending Stef. scummyrelation level: midhigh
CKD - calls stef out for too much random voting (cautioning partner?), pursues BlakAdder a lot, scummyrelation level: medium
Cybele - votes blakadder for seeming like stef's scumbuddy, but never addresses stef? level: midhigh
Empking - likes the pt bandwagon more, does not address stef. a bit too obvious for a scumbuddy? level: midlow
Erratus - does not address stef, level: medium
Ghostwriter - does not address stef or post, level:medium
Haschel - does not find stef suspicious due to small sample size, level: medium
Jebus - does not address stef, level: medium
Ku_F - random votes stef(!!) is also random voted by stef (!!), does not address stef otherwise. level:midhigh
massive - does not address stef, level: medium
ooba - pursues stef a lot, uses meta against him, etc. shifts to pt later, but still, level: low
Rush - does not address stef, level: medium
sekinj - defends stef a little bit, attacks PT, doesn't really mean much, although the amount of defense is the amount that scum would do. level: medium
Seraphim - does not address stef, level: medium
Shadowgirl - does not address stef, level: medium
Sierra - says that pressure on stef is good but does not go any further, asks stef about his experience, is pressured about his semi-support of the wagon, level: medium
skitzer - tells stef that people on the site are commonly insulted and that he should adapt, level: medium
Tarhalinder - votes stef because he has a problem with questions? (why would he do this?) jumps to Sierra because of his defense-ish of stef, but then stops caring about stef very soon after, lists stef with pt and sierra (rule of three?), level: midhigh

[curiouskarmadog]

ok going back, it looks like EA IS indeed asking Cybele to explain her explanation for voting skitzer as a joke,, so I think i misunderstood there. But the question still stands. given all the shit that happened yesterday, you are still harping on that? Might be worth looking at it later, but it is not enough to blatantly ignore what is going on today....I think BA is a much better lynch. You said you didnt like the BA case...why? What part of it do you not like? Seems to me that his actions yesterday should be at least warranting some sort of alarms, but you just seem to ignore it. And you dont find the fact that Emp is dodging my question interesting either?

I'm not ignoring BA. I came right out and said that I don't find him suspicious, I'd think that would imply that I'm paying attention to him.

Once you get past BA's misuse of the word "clear", the main argument against him boils down to "he linked tajo to Stef". Which is true, but his reasons for linking them, and for attacking tajo rather than Stef, made sense at the time. Am I really supposed to believe that a townie couldn't read tajo's "give Stef some slack because he has a South Park avatar" bullshit and draw a connection? That makes sense to me.

Unless the wagon on BA is

because

he misused the word "clear", in which case I should EBWOP a few million "really"s onto my "not impressed" post.

What question did Empking dodge? I don't see it.

I dont think you understand my case against BA...the fact that he used the word "cleared"...or "not scummy"..or what has little to do with it. the fact that he was trying to do it in the first place is ONE of my problems with BA. It is the action not the words. The others, i stated YESTERDAY and restated today...(ex: only voting the wagon of the hour and lack of scum hunting)...

also, you really dont see the what questions EMp has been dodging? Are you really going to make me go back and repost the whole back and forth? I assume you think i am just making it up?

[curiouskarmadog]

Electra....the only people you have that are "low" (meaning you are leaning town) is armlx and ooba (who is a dead cult recruiter)..I take it you havent really read the game yet?

I appreciate the fact that you are taking a stance (sort of) on people, but how much stock should we put into your ratings?

[Ku_F]

So someone thinks I was protecting Stef with my smiley post comment.
The other thinks I'm suspicious as I random voted Stef and he me.
Anyone else with a different reason?

First of all, I didn't protect Stef with that post. I didn't knew that smiley's could also indicate scum. But now I know. I thought it was a strange reason to start an attack, but now that it's proven that it works, I won't make any comments about it anymore. Besides, later on Stef does strike me as scummy. But Skitzer caught my attention as well.

I know that scum random votes each other sometimes. But sometimes isn't everytime. It's interesting that you make me a midhigh level. It's also done sometimes that scum don't mention each other in their posts when one of the scum is in danger. Does that make all the players suspicious who didn't mention Stef? To me, not.
I think you're using every excuse to make players connect with Stef.
Besides, you're using the too scummy argument to 'clear' Empking and Shadowgirl also randomvoted Stef.
And why are players who 'defended' Stef of level medium?

I wonder what part 2 will bring us.

[Empking]

What question did Empking dodge? I don't see it.

Its the one in CKD's and Sekinj's heads.

[Erratus Apathos]

ok going back, it looks like EA IS indeed asking Cybele to explain her explanation for voting skitzer as a joke,, so I think i misunderstood there. But the question still stands. given all the shit that happened yesterday, you are still harping on that? Might be worth looking at it later, but it is not enough to blatantly ignore what is going on today....I think BA is a much better lynch. You said you didnt like the BA case...why? What part of it do you not like? Seems to me that his actions yesterday should be at least warranting some sort of alarms, but you just seem to ignore it. And you dont find the fact that Emp is dodging my question interesting either?

I'm not ignoring BA. I came right out and said that I don't find him suspicious, I'd think that would imply that I'm paying attention to him.

Once you get past BA's misuse of the word "clear", the main argument against him boils down to "he linked tajo to Stef". Which is true, but his reasons for linking them, and for attacking tajo rather than Stef, made sense at the time. Am I really supposed to believe that a townie couldn't read tajo's "give Stef some slack because he has a South Park avatar" bullshit and draw a connection? That makes sense to me.

Unless the wagon on BA is

because

he misused the word "clear", in which case I should EBWOP a few million "really"s onto my "not impressed" post.

What question did Empking dodge? I don't see it.

I dont think you understand my case against BA...the fact that he used the word "cleared"...or "not scummy"..or what has little to do with it. the fact that he was trying to do it in the first place is ONE of my problems with BA. It is the action not the words. The others, i stated YESTERDAY and restated today...(ex: only voting the wagon of the hour and lack of scum hunting)...

I wasn't talking about your case, I was talking about the wagon in general.

In any event, I don't think having jumped on two wagons is sufficient evidence that he's just trying to blend in, and I don't see how he hasn't been scum hunting when there's been so much focus on his attack on Tajo/Stef.

also, you really dont see the what questions EMp has been dodging? Are you really going to make me go back and repost the whole back and forth? I assume you think i am just making it up?

Hilarious that you dodge my question here. No, I didn't see Empking dodge questions. I've been focusing my attention on the BA wagon and my discussions with Cybele and you, so Empking was never on my radar. I don't see why you would make it up; why do you assume I think that?

[curiouskarmadog]

I will post my questions and his responses.

[sekinj]

@EA - it seems like you are saying that you arn't paying attention to anything but your case and your suspects?? dont' you think that is too tunnel visioned? shouldn't you be reading everything happening in the game if you expect to be able to catch scum?

[Electra]

@ curiouskarma dog - This isn't a list of who I find scummiest given all factors, it's a list of people in their likeliness of being scumpartners with Stef.

Also, I knew ooba was dead, but I forgot ;O But I ranked him as low, and we know that he wasn't a scumpartner

@ Ku_F - If people didn't address Stef and didn't give any other tells, then I can only rank them as medium. Also, defending Stef doesn't necessarily mean anything, because a mistaken townie is just as likely as scum to defend (since scum are sometimes more reluctant to defend in case they can be associated). It's mainly in the way Stef was defended, if it seems more like a serious defense, I'm more likely to believe it's town.

Also I missed that SGirl random voted stef, but it's not really enough to go off of considering she didn't address stef again.

Here is the rest of the post:

TheSweatpantsNinja - did not address Stef the day before, but doesn't like BlakAdder today, level: medium
Stef: addresses a few people, doesn't really give any tells as far as I can see, except he says, "Empking, Elektra, BlakAdder, Jebus, Rush: More activity and/or content from you guys! What do you think about the latest developments in the game? What are your 3 top suspects and why? " so obviously one of these five is scum (not me :p)

So anyway, ultimately, it does seem like BlakAdder is a good choice, however, it almost seems too obvious? Cybele's one move is very suspicious to me, but since he didn't do anything else, I can't say for sure. Ku_F's response is kind of weird, it seems almost like fake-indignant. Not sure if the double random vote is less or more suspicious than a single random vote. I also find Ku_F's posting to be Mafia-ish aside from interactions with Stef, no examples, just a general read. Tarhalinder's actions are very very interesting, and could definitely be a scumbuddy, but aside from stuff relating to Stef, I don't find his actions too scummy. Thoughts on these four?

[Sierra]

It's been a few days since we last heard from BlakAdder. When he shows up again, I would like to hear from him who he thinks is most suspicious at the moment. Up until now, the only accusation I've seen him make was suggesting there might be a link between Tajo and Stef, which we've seen was false. I want to hear more of his thoughts on the game, instead of only defending himself.

[Empking]

Yeah, I might rethink my vote once we hear from BA again.

I want him to post.

[armlx]

"Empking, Elektra, BlakAdder, Jebus, Rush: More activity and/or content from you guys! What do you think about the latest developments in the game? What are your 3 top suspects and why? " so obviously one of these five is scum

That's a pretty ridiculous conclusion. If anything, one of those 5 is scum just based on random statistical odds.

[curiouskarmadog]

at first he provides short answers only giving a little information...and then

my post 322

Going to need a tad bit more from you.

"The same thing I picked up on the first time and the first time I talked to BA. "

Dont understand this statement, please site posts and be specific. What was BA mistake? The fact he was trying to partially clear anyone, or the fact that he was trying to partially clear scum? I do note you questioned him on this at the time...trying to figure out what you think was his mistake, I am still confused.

What is your opinion of my case against BA? Again, address my points (you dont have to address the 1st "gut" reason) and be as specific as possible.

Emp's next post was 359

Empking: and the killing of a mafia goon wasn't a good thing?

I'd like to look closer at the BlakAdder case, as it does seem promissing.

Not as good as hitting a cult leader.

I haven't seen a townie hammer to early and I think I recall a scum hammer too early.

my next post 365

Also EMP, you are avoidng my questions now..or you just decided to answer one.

Going to need a tad bit more from you.

"The same thing I picked up on the first time and the first time I talked to BA. "

Dont understand this statement, please site posts and be specific. What was BA mistake? The fact he was trying to partially clear anyone, or the fact that he was trying to partially clear scum? I do note you questioned him on this at the time...trying to figure out what you think was his mistake, I am still confused.

What is your opinion of my case against BA? Again, address my points (you dont have to address the 1st "gut" reason) and be as specific as possible.

And so that I understand, you think my "mistake" was a fast hammer and you "cant see how a townie (me) could've made a(that) mistake", thus I must be scum. have you ever seen a townie hammer someone that you deem was "too early"...have you ever seen scum hammer someone that you deem was "too early"?

I hammered because of the claim...I didnt beleive it. A decent doc would not play that way and I felt he was lying. As it turns out I was right...he was lying. I was also right for calling out Stef for attacking me (an implication was there if you want to admit it or not). I am pretty sure I am right about BA too.

You on the other hand, I am trying to figure out if you really believe what you are saying or if you are trying to push crap.

bolded the parts you overlooked

emp's reply 367

I felt I had to answer the quote I gave and wrote the answers to your questions I remembered.

Their's nothing wrong with your case, I just think you're scummier.

we cross post on 369/370

I felt I had to answer the quote I gave and wrote the answers to your questions I remembered.

again, i am not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that you have already answered the question?..I dont feel like you have.

what was BA mistake...was it a.) the fact he was trying to partially clear ANYONE b.) that he was partially trying to clear Stef (who we later discover to be scum, or c.) something else.

What is your opinion of my case against BA? Again, address my points (you dont have to address the 1st "gut" reason) and be as specific as possible.

There is more to my case than just the clearing of Stef..please address my points, I mean you have already walked down the road of defending BA..why stop?

Emp 372

I think I've already answered your question or at least the first question.

How have I been defending BA?

me 373

I am obviously not understanding you, I dont understand your position...please quit saying you have already answered the question.

what was BA mistake...was it a.) the fact he was trying to partially clear ANYONE b.) that he was partially trying to clear Stef (who we later discover to be scum, or c.) something else.

for this question just say a, b, or c...i can not make it any easier than that. I dont want to misquote you or assume you are saying something you are not...if the answer is "c" please explain it.

What is your opinion of my case against BA? Again, address my points (you dont have to address the 1st "gut" reason) and be as specific as possible

this is the 3rd time I have had to ask this particular question..dont ignore it.

There is more to my case than just the clearing of Stef..please address my points, I mean you have already walked down the road of defending BA..why stop?

you have defended BA by saying you understand his mistake (though I still dont quite grasp what you think his exact mistake was). You have also avoided addressing my case agaist him twice.

I did miss him addressing that he didnt think anything was wrong with my BA case...I actually just caught that in the porcessing of posting this...however, it is like pulling teeth to get him to clarify anything.

I think B.

I'm not going to go point to point through any post until I find something that I disagree with.

-----

he has answered all my questions to date..but HE DID dodge the questions at first...

[BlakAdder]

In response to Sierra's request:
At the moment, CKD and Empking are the only two I find particularly scummy. CKD because he puts together a case that, to me, like tunnel vision from a slapped-together case from yesterday. Plus, many other people are following him like puppies, so I'd like to go on record saying that even if CKD is not scum, there's probably at least one scum on my wagon right now.
Empking, because of pretty much all of the idiocy that everyone has been talking about until this point. But, like TSPN said, I don't know whether that makes him scum or just careless/stupid.
I'd also like to point out the bottom of Sierra's post 396. He talks about how Empking and EA are likely to be my scumbuddies because of their "defense" against me (which looks like pretty much a mirroring of CKD's case against me), but dismisses the idea that CKD is distancing from me as "coincidence". What makes EA and Empking any more suspicious in this regard than CKD?
I don't know where I want to place my vote at the time being, so I'll

fos: CuriousKarmaDog, Empking, and Sierra