Mafia 85 - Murder at the Bus Stop (game over)

[Riceballtail]

I'm still not sure how to react to this Xtoxm/Surye arguement. Something about it doesn't sit right with me though.

Mod edit
Votecount:
Surye (4): springlullaby, Riceballtail, Muerrto, Xtoxm
Xtoxm (2): Surye, armlx
Jebus (2): farside22, Shanba
Cream147 (2): Empking, BlakAdder
Sir T. (1): Wall-E

Not voting (11): Megatheory, Azuma, RestFermata, Gremwell, Alabaska J, Cream147, Jebus, Slepz, killa seven, Zazier, al4xz

With 22 alive it's 12 to lynch.

[armlx]

Why is it bad to meta yourself?

Because if you meta yourself and use said meta, its at best WIFOM with regards to your alignment.

[Xtoxm]

Not if you can back it up by proving your meta.

[armlx]

Not if you can back it up by proving your meta.

But because you know your meta, you can act appropriately to make it exist in non-accurate scenarios. The point of meta is to pick up on subconscious tells people do then use those to gain an advantage. If you know your tells, its a lot easier to control them.

[Xtoxm]

No, it's not easy to control your own tells at all. I have personal experience of this.

[armlx]

No, it's not easy to control your own tells at all. I have personal experience of this.

Depends on what the tell is.

[farside22]

As much as I don't care for xtoxm's lack of saying anything really useful when it comes to his votes I don't feel like he is scum.
xtoxm: Why do you no longer feel Jebus scum? Why do you still have a vote on surye if you don't think he is scum?

[Muerrto]

Muerrto:

Vote: Al4xz

lynching someone for lurking alone is simply bad, period

and OMG the lurker discussion KEEPS going on and on and on...

I did not like this at all. In my early games, I always pretty much fully supported any lurker lynch. And it is not a scumtell. Often scum lurk, I find.

Lynching someone for lukring alone is not simply bad, in fact i'd say it's often a very good reason on it's own.

I don't know what you're on about with your pot/kettle stuff, or why you gave out those minuses...

Pot calling the kettle black. Accusing someone of something they're doing themselves(lurking for example, barely posting, etc.). The pluses and minuses are town and scum points respectively. Al4xz and Surye came out the most negative by far with Wall a very distant 3rd and RBT a close 4th.

Lynching someone for lurking alone is a guess, period. No one anywhere will ever be able to bring enough evidence to convince me otherwise. Demon pineapple posted twice all of day 1. Was he lurking or not playing? Obv not playing since he posted to confirm and to random vote, that's it. So how do you differentiate?

I really, really hate knowing Tornado's town because his constant relying on meta of HIMSELF is soooo bad, omg ANOTHER post about your meta with link quotes to other games? dude, meta does not clear you, period.

I find meta is sometimes the best thing to form a read on. Not always, ofcourse, but sometimes.

Why is it bad to meta yourself?

I have in the past stated that i'm obvtown by my standards when i've been town.

Because as scum wouldn't you have motivation to LIE and try and meta yourself town? Meta'ing yourself is like saying 'Well I act like this as town and this as scum so since I'm acting like this I must be town.' WIFOM anyone?

This Slicey lynch is horrible. People say he acted scummy, where, quote it, people say he got people's hackles up, where, quote it, there are NO quotes in these posts people, this is bad, town should've noticed this, bad lynch

<3

plus?

Huge plus that you were about the only one who saw how bad the lynch was. I'm still waiting for my quoted day 1 'case'.

Wall-E and Al4xz both distancing Surye? Hm... maybe I wrote off Wall-E too much, but Al4xz saying it and FoS'ing him RIGHT after Wall...

Not seeing Alex scum at all. Think Wall also looks town. Surye i'm unsure about.

What makes you see either Al4xz or Wall as town? Do you start with everyone town and just haven't seen anything scummy yet? I guess I kind of start with everyone in the middle and watch which way they slide based on their actions. Wall didn't slide much to the negative but he did slide.

Al4xz and Surye fell off the other side.

bolding mine

[Wall-E]

Since I see my name popping up, what posts did you find scummy?

[Xtoxm]

Was he lurking or not playing? Obv not playing since he posted to confirm and to random vote, that's it. So how do you differentiate?

You can usually tell...

Because as scum wouldn't you have motivation to LIE and try and meta yourself town? Meta'ing yourself is like saying 'Well I act like this as town and this as scum so since I'm acting like this I must be town.' WIFOM anyone?

The hard part is playing to your meta. Xtoxm-Scum plays by trying to mimick Xtoxm-Town. He has a very hard time doing this, and usually fails. Have you ever looked at your on play in a game, and think, yeh, i'm obvscum here, by my meta. I have.

Huge plus that you were about the only one who saw how bad the lynch was. I'm still waiting for my quoted day 1 'case'.

Sounds like the waiting is directed at someone else, but just to confirm, you're not expecting it anyhthing from me here?

What makes you see either Al4xz or Wall as town?

Well to me they really just look like they are pro-town to be honest. I'm not sure how to explain it much better than that. And although I think Wall is misled in several areas, he does look like town imo.

Do you start with everyone town and just haven't seen anything scummy yet? I guess I kind of start with everyone in the middle and watch which way they slide based on their actions.

No, yeh I do the same thing as you really, and yeh people kinda slide one way or the other. (Except with some people such as armlx who start as scum and have to work their way out )

Al4xz and Surye fell off the other side.

Lol.

Really can't see Alex being scum, i'd be quite surprised if he was. Surye might be. Not sure about him atm. Some stuff looks ok some stuff looks dodgy.

[Xtoxm]

Although, thinking about it, Surye is giving this game a lot of attention. I'd rather go after one of the scummier lurkers personally, although for some reason people never endorse lurker lynches until, like, lylo.

[Surye]

Unvote

We've gone full circle on Xtoxm, my vote did what I needed it to, we had a full investigation of a suspicion. But by itself, the whole ambiguity of commitment statements is not really enough to keep pushing this, I don't see it necessarily being scumfinding.

[Empking]

I think Xtoxm's posts are scummy because of the posts posted here but I'm willing to believe the not-lurking is a town tell for Xtoxm.

[Surye]

Vote: Xtoxm

Mod: not counted, unvote first

I don't know if Wall-E knew he didn't unvote, so I'll assume he didn't. However, I really don't like his participation in this wagon. He voted without contributing at first, and then proceeded to attack his wagon behavior, which is fine, but he voted before much of that happened. He never seemed to agree or even understand my original case behind my vote.

It feels opportunistic.

FoS: Wall-E

[Xtoxm]

Unvote

[Wall-E]

Unvote

I'll find a new lead before I vote again.

@Surye: Nice omgus.

[Surye]

Unvote

I'll find a new lead before I vote again.

@Surye: Nice omgus.

I suggest you look up the definition of omgus.

[Wall-E]

I submit that you're scum looking for an excuse to dirty the reputation of one of your attackers.

[Surye]

I submit that you're scum looking for an excuse to dirty the reputation of one of your attackers.

Uhh... in what world would I consider you one of my attackers? I threw an FoS on you that you should and could have easily defended and supported your action, but you did this instead? Honestly?

[Wall-E]

It is what it is.

[armlx]

Unvote

I still think xtoxm-town is capable of being more coherent then this, but its possible he changed since the last coherent game I was in with him.

And is it just me, or does Emp's last post make actual negative sense?

[Wall-E]

I think Xtoxm's posts are scummy because of the posts posted here but I'm willing to believe the not-lurking is a town tell for Xtoxm.

"I think Xtoxm is scum, but if others tell me his meta for this game = town I will go along with it."

I think it makes sense in a written-by-a-schitzophrenic sorta way.

[Wall-E]

It makes sense grammatically, I mean. I'm wondering why empking trusts the consensual town meta-read over his own instincts... but maybe he's unconfident.

[armlx]

Ahh, fair nuff.

Anyways

Vote Cream

[Wall-E]

Unvote

We've gone full circle on Xtoxm, my vote did what I needed it to, we had a full investigation of a suspicion. But by itself, the whole ambiguity of commitment statements is not really enough to keep pushing this, I don't see it necessarily being scumfinding.

My vote was to pressure an infrequent poster. I would not, at the time, have advocated a lynch, though obviously saying that would have degenerated the usefulness of the vote. Later, Xtoxm's responses waxed scummy, so I pressed the attack.