Mini 666 - This Could Be Mafia - MOD ABANDONED

[Grimmy]

im looking forward to part 2 and hope its more filled out than part one.

See you all next week
Grimmy

[pickemgenius]

im looking forward to part 2 and hope its more filled out than part one.

See you all next week
Grimmy

the other parts are gonna be the same exact way.

I'm going to say what I want to say, and give post #'s leaving you to go back to those posts, read them and make up your own fucking mind so you don't blindly follow something.

[skitzer]

"I'm tired of this. Let's see where this mystery box to nowhere leads," and with that, fuzzylightning stepped into the Grim Replacer's box.

Suddenly, a strange object, suspended in midair, formed above the beams of green light in the middle of the circle. It was a clock shaped like a cat, but mystical in a way that it appeared the same no matter how you looked at it. It had vibrant green eyes and a long bushy tail that had parallel swinging motions, and sometimes it made cat sounds. But the strangest part of this timepiece was the interface. Instead of regular clock numbers, there was one scene at the point where the twelve should be. There were a few words (

OCTOBER 31ST, 2008

), and a picture of a line being stabbed.

The inhabitants were puzzled for a while, but soon figured out the mystery of this feline clock.

Vote Count Equations At the Moment:

populartajo = +fuzzylightning+Muerrto+Falcone+Grimmy = 4
Muerrto = +populartajo+TonyMontana+competentpsycho = 3
Grimmy = +Vivian Darkblaam+pickemgenius = 2
TonyMontana = +Battousai+ShadowGirl = 2
Falcone = +Erg0 = 1
Erg0 = = 0
Vivian Darkblaam = = 0
pickemgenius = = 0
Battousai = = 0
fuzzylightning = = 0
ShadowGirl = = 0
competentpsycho = = 0


Not Voting = -Falcone-Muerrto-pickemgenius-Battousai-fuzzylightning-Vivian Darkblaam-Erg0-ShadowGirl-competentpsycho-Grimmy-TonyMontana-populartajo = -12

FoS Count:

Falcone has pointed two fingers of suspicion at TonyMontana!
Battousai has pointed a finger of suspicion at Timeater!
Falcone has pointed a finger of suspicion at Battousai!
Battousai has pointed a finger of suspicion at TonyMontana!
Falcone has pointed a finger of suspicion at populartajo!
Muerrto has pointed a finger of suspicion at TonyMontana!
Muerrto has pointed a finger of suspicion at competentpsycho!
Muerrto has pointed a finger of suspicion at Grimmy!

Note: All player's win conditions are not the same.

[Vivian Darkblaam]

im looking forward to part 2 and hope its more filled out than part one.

See you all next week
Grimmy

the other parts are gonna be the same exact way.

I'm going to say what I want to say, and give post #'s leaving you to go back to those posts, read them and make up your own fucking mind so you don't blindly follow something.

pickem be terse, but I disagree with the reasoning. "Interesting" is good terseposting, but "bad" and "goodposting" are not. Those words are going to encourage the impressionable mind to make itself in your image just as much as reasoning would (except without the liablility)

Also,

two weeks until deadline

in case anybody missed the flavor.

[ShadowGirl]

Happy scumday tajo!

Mm, it would be a better if you did elaborate a little pickem.

[populartajo]

I asked to Muerrto this question some days ago.

Muerrto, lets do things easier for the two of us. Can you summarize why I am still scum?

This was his answer.

1. In my experience, when your defense is 'I'm town and you're stupid' you end up being scum. Every post or attack against you was answered with some version of that quote. If that's not the case, try to be more civil and build a logical defense.

I dont see the necessity to explain why this isnt a scumtell. I get extremely frustrated when nobody seems to understand what Im trying to say and being attacked for that. I think this is the way I play this game. I realize its not optimal and that I need to be more logical and less asshole in my reasonings when being attacked. I repeat that I was lynched as town for pretty much same behavior in another game. And Muerrto and others you definetely know that this isnt a scumtell.

2. Turning my agreeing that Time was acting weird/scummy into 'ALWAYS agreeing with you' and my later disagreement with you into a '180' was the biggest stretch I've seen in quite a few games. Either really over-reacting town or stretching scum. It feels more like the second definitely.

All I have to say is this. Muerrto has 10 posts before voting me.

Time's behavior actually reflects just what Popular said. He asked for a replacement, then kept posting, then was SURPRISED when he got replaced

Because if that IS the case he needs to work on that. And according to his posts I gotta agree with Popular, Time seemed to be quite taken with the game.

I agreed with Popular because he was right why do both Popular and Shadowgirl have a problem with that? I never buddied up or anything, I simply agreed.

Its pretty clear that he agrees with me in the majority of his posts before the vote. I understand

totally

is not the right word but the 3 posts (of 9) above show clearly where this accusation comes from. Also, his other non-quoted posts show similarities with my theory about Timeater asking for a replacement.
Apparently there's no problem there. You just keep saying to yourself, "this guy seems to trust me too much. Remember this."
But in his very next post....

First off, just to let you know, I wasn't prodded. Second,
Unvote positive, poisitive vote : Popular
You called for my prod when I posted friday, then saturday, and I even cross posted with you? It had been less than 24 hours since my last post.
And attempting to link me with Ergo/Time?

Is there a logical reason for that vote? Where's that link?
Things get worst when you take in accoun the level of agreement Muerrto had with me before(see above). That's why I've asked all the game this:

How did I go to decent reasoner to obvious scum in so little time? And why I was scum for those weak reasons?

Interesting fact : my wagon was gaining pretty much momentum in the exact moment of his vote.

3. You have no problem with the massive buddying Tony's been giving you all game. If he's scum and you're town and you have that win condition, why would you all of a sudden take him for obv town just because he says he has it too? Your posts read like you consider him confirmed town when he could easily be scum buddying up. Either you hadn't thought of that or he's your partner. Again siding with the latter.

First, Tony isnt obvtown becuase he has the same win condition. I've been saying this all the game. He's town for HIS REACTION to my claim. I assume that he read my win condition, checked his and realized that IT WAS THE EXACT WIN CONDITION IN HIS PM. Thats why he unvoted when almost all the town was against me, a terrible play if he were scum. He was the first one to react when my claim was being analysed. Notice that Shadowgirl also reacted to my claim and that this almost confirms her as town with my same win condition, although not as much as Tony. You even then said after some time that you had the same win condition but I obviously dont believe you or others that claim to have the same win condition becuase all the town ALREADY KNOW THAT IT IS A REAL WIN CONDITION.

4. You claimed way too early and expected everyone to take it as gospel. When some didn't you became irate and began insulting/attacking them. Again, if you're not scum, you should be able to build a defense and you should expect that the town isn't going to just believe your word. This is mafia. If you're scum and you fake claim however you can fake being angry that people aren't believing you as an appeal to emotion. Again, you've played like the latter rather than the former.

Again I claimed for time/frustration reasons. This paragraph is just an extension of paragraph number 1. THAT IS NOT A SCUMTELL. And its pretty obvious I didnt fakeclaim.
So Muerrto you're going to keep pushing this weak case or are you going to acept that you're finally scum?
Peace.

[populartajo]

Happy scumday tajo!

Mm, it would be a better if you did elaborate a little pickem.

Hey thanks.
And QFT.

[Battousai]

I have a few things, to say to your last post. But I would rather wait and see what Muerrto says first.

[pickemgenius]

5-10 (you guys bicker too much for D1, also ignore everything on Voodo, as thats who im apparently replacing)

#138(grimmy) is a decent post.

#141 by Falcone is an interesting post.

#144 (nhat) seems... weird

#146 by Shadow seems like a bridge to a later vote.

#147 by fuzzy is fuzzy hopping on a wagon adding nothing really. Just hitting another "hot" bandwagon

lots of bickering that is meaningless at this juncture

@182-(viv) anger doesn't hurt your argument (atleast in my book *shrug*)

#184(falcone) is a good post.

#196(Muerrto) seems liek a shitty reason for a vote.

Falcone+Tajo arguing for like ages.

#198(tajo) will be a good look at in the future.

#203(tajo)+anger

#210(tony) hops on a fresh and sexy bandwagon!

Anger=/=Scum.... trust me.

@231(Muerrto) yo dude... umm... cursing/anger at people is part of the game. grow a set...

@240(tajo)-no comment atm


at this juncture id love to lynch Tony. no i have not read 10-20 yet so that could change.

[TonyMontana]

Keep reading.

[Muerrto]

Again I claimed for time/frustration reasons. This paragraph is just an extension of paragraph number 1. THAT IS NOT A SCUMTELL. And its pretty obvious I didnt fakeclaim.
So Muerrto you're going to keep pushing this weak case or are you going to acept that you're finally scum?
Peace.

1. Anger

can

be townie but it is usually scum that stoop to insulting other's arguments when they're not able to formulate their fake defense.

2. It's not obvious you didn't fake claim, hence my vote.

3. The agreeing thing is retarded, period. You quoted three posts of mine basically talking about the same thing. So I agree Time's reaction was stange and he looked scummy. How does that in any possible way clear you? Why would you think it's strange that even though I agree with you on Time I can also suspect you? Scenario A, you could be bussing Time. B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him. C, I could be wrong and so could you and we're both targetting some townie. Only 1 of those 3 means you're town. Why then do you find it strange that I can suspect you even after agreeing with you on something else?

[competentpsycho]

Scenario A, you could be bussing Time. B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him. C, I could be wrong and so could you and we're both targetting some townie.

How does limiting choices to only those that help you prove anything?

3 of those 3 scenarios mean you are town, so do I take that as proof that you are? If you are going to present an arguments based on scenarios, you have to consider all of them. I realize that if you are town you would have eliminated those scenarios where you are scum, but for now the rest of us cannot safely do so. Even if we discount this since you are the one that wrote it, also missing is the scenario of you both being right and Time/Ergo IS scum and you both are town. That is one case that you CANNOT rule out for sure even if you are town. So you are presenting the case in a way that leaves out possibilities. If you include this, like you should have, it would be 2 of 4 scenarios tajo is scum, 2 of 4 he is town, but again this is bad logic, since the "scenarios" used depend on whether or not tajo and Time are scum. Of course it will be 50% of the scenarios tajo is scum if you are considering the scenarios as: A. You are scum B. You are not.

You seem to try to hide this with complexity by adding in the other factor of Time/Ergo being scum and wording it differently than "you are scum".

You seem to be intent on using shit argument after shit argument to justify your vote. Using shit arguments is a bit of a scumtell, especially when it is a pattern, but trying to hide the fact that your argument is crap by the way you word it is fairly obvious to me. Either you are scum or completely incompetent town. I am 95% sure its the former. I like my vote exactly where it is.


Also,

B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him.

I seem to remember you claiming that he agreed with you since you first stated suspicion on Time. I will go back and read to make sure, but don't have time to double check this for now, just putting it out for now so I remember.

[TonyMontana]

Negative vote: Tajo

In case someone missed it, deadline is in 11 days.

[Battousai]

Deadline shouldn't have been made, a diecision to lynch should have been made by now.

I was waiting for Muerrto to respond, so it wouldn't look like he is copying me. First off, you were claiming the following/ 180 turn WAY TOO SOON. If you both thought that one person was scum very early in the game, of course the majority of his posts would be similar to yours and in agreement as he believed the same way.

My votes staying on Tony, I hope the rest of you come to a decision way before deadline hits to avoid the deadline lynching excuse.

[Grimmy]

Negative vote: Tajo

In case someone missed it, deadline is in 11 days.

this just adds to my suspicion of a link between Tony and Tajo.

Grimmy
saw the link before, and sees it better now


So as a PS question to Batty

Do you see a pairing between Tajo and Tony, and if so, would this be enough to get you to vote for either or depending on who is in the lead at deadline?

[TonyMontana]

Why, because I'm using my votes to advocate the lynch I think is better?

[Grimmy]

a little tidbit from post 418 im highlighting for TonyMontana

Another suspect: Tony Montana.
you seem to be defending Tajo a little TOO much.
-if he flips town, you feel it will clear you as you attached yourself to him with your defense of him.
-If he flips scum, and you are his scum buddy, people will think that you made the mistake of buddying to scum and got fooled. This provides cover for you (I beleive someone put together a "if tajo is scum, then tony is town" arguement earlier)

Out of these three, Tajo and Tony are my top two scumspects.
----------------------

The negative vote to further protect your "buddy" pushes this further towards the pairing arguement. I am willing go to for either a tajo lynch or a TonyM lynch today, and the FOS will likely remain upon the other tomorrow.

Grimmy

[ShadowGirl]

1. Anger can be townie but it is usually scum that stoop to insulting other's arguments when they're not able to formulate their fake defense.

This becomes a tell depending on the person. Tajo seems to be the person who gets angry even as a town, so I'm not so sure if this would be a tell for him... (I'd reference, but it's an ongoing game.)

@Grimmy: Hmm... I'm starting to think it's be more subtle buddying and trying to create a link between them. Really, if Tony flips scum who would the next person be that we would take a hard look at? [At this point, anyway.] Tajo.

[TonyMontana]

The negative vote to further protect your "buddy" pushes this further towards the pairing arguement. I am willing go to for either a tajo lynch or a TonyM lynch today, and the FOS will likely remain upon the other tomorrow.

Well I certainly think it's regrettable if me being adamant about believing Tajo's claim should somehow cast suspicion on him.
I just don't see the rationality behind the argument that we're both scum because we're "buddying" up. Could you explain this rationale?

[ShadowGirl]

Prod on Falcone, please.

Zoom!

So, why the negative vote on Tajo?

[TonyMontana]

Because i can. What's the point of having negative vote powers, if you're not gonna use em to promote your intentions? -.-

[competentpsycho]

a little tidbit from post 418 im highlighting for TonyMontana

Another suspect: Tony Montana.
you seem to be defending Tajo a little TOO much.
-if he flips town, you feel it will clear you as you attached yourself to him with your defense of him.
-If he flips scum, and you are his scum buddy, people will think that you made the mistake of buddying to scum and got fooled. This provides cover for you (I beleive someone put together a "if tajo is scum, then tony is town" arguement earlier)

Out of these three, Tajo and Tony are my top two scumspects.
----------------------

What you quoted didn't sit well with me the first time around, and yet you bring it in again. You throw in how scum would rationalize the buddying, but word it as if he is already confirmed scum. I don't see any reason defending someone who stated the win condition you have as town is any sort of scum tell at all, yet you keep pushing Tony. If you were sure that tajo was scum, I could see being positive enough on Tony to vote for him, but why wouldn't you try to lynch tajo first since you KNEW it was him? Your play doesn't make any sense to me. You also are fishing with

So as a PS question to Batty

Do you see a pairing between Tajo and Tony, and if so, would this be enough to get you to vote for either or depending on who is in the lead at deadline?

. OH NO - Battousai and Grimmy are buddying up...

[Battousai]

Grimmy: I feel that they both could be scum or one of them is scum, buddying up to the other to either get them lynched after their own death or get them lynched and their innocence would make them look better. I wouldn't be too upset with a tajo lynch, but seeing as how he claimed a power role I feel that he should be given at least one night to perform his actions and tell us. That way we can get some more information.

[Vivian Darkblaam]

Deadline shouldn't have been made, a diecision to lynch should have been made by now.

I disagree. Days are the town's turf, and we need as much of them as we can get. Does that mean a scramble lynch at deadline? No. Does that mean taking as much time as possible for discussion before we come to a conclusion? Hellz yes. What have you been doing to build the consensus you want so much anyway?

1. Anger can be townie but it is usually scum that stoop to insulting other's arguments when they're not able to formulate their fake defense.

Not so fast. You're claiming here that tajo is using anger as a replacement for reasoning. That might have been true a while ago, but I think his last post was a decent defense against your summary case on tajo, and remember that tajo didn't have that post to respond to for the majority of this bru-ha-ha. He just needed something in particular to rail against.

Also, tajo's argument that Muerrto "totally agreed" (or even just "agreed") with him is somewhat weak, but the real substance of it, that Muerrto's vote for tajo was unprecedented and with weak stated reasonings still holds fairly strong.

The problem I have with Grimmy's Tajo-hearts-Tony point is that it only works if he puts WIFOM into Tony's mouth. Defending a scumbuddy is still a massive risk, and no right-thinking player will or should assume that WIFOM will protect them if things go south.

[Muerrto]

Scenario A, you could be bussing Time. B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him. C, I could be wrong and so could you and we're both targetting some townie.

How does limiting choices to only those that help you prove anything?

3 of those 3 scenarios mean you are town, so do I take that as proof that you are? If you are going to present an arguments based on scenarios, you have to consider all of them.

Um...no YOU have to consider all of them but since I know my role I don't.

You seem to be intent on using shit argument after shit argument to justify your vote. Using shit arguments is a bit of a scumtell, especially when it is a pattern, but trying to hide the fact that your argument is crap by the way you word it is fairly obvious to me. Either you are scum or completely incompetent town. I am 95% sure its the former. I like my vote exactly where it is.

Also,

B, I could be wrong and following your fabricated case on him.

I seem to remember you claiming that he agreed with you since you first stated suspicion on Time. I will go back and read to make sure, but don't have time to double check this for now, just putting it out for now so I remember.

The first paragraph is excellent posting. lots of good posting and not just random cursing and insulting cases. Insulting cases when you can't think of a good fake one is a definite scum tell.

The second paragraph is excellent as well. Except I already went back and corrected myself that Tajo did in fact mention it first but he didn't quite say the same thing I did. I simply agreed with his post.

Because i can. What's the point of having negative vote powers, if you're not gonna use em to promote your intentions? -.-

Because it was unneccesary. Kind of like unvoting someone when they're nowhere near a lynch but not voting anyone else. It's pointless. Why did you feel you needed to do it even though you hadn't all day?

Also, tajo's argument that Muerrto "totally agreed" (or even just "agreed") with him is somewhat weak, but the real substance of it, that Muerrto's vote for tajo was unprecedented and with weak stated reasonings still holds fairly strong.

I already admitted my vote was because I was ticked he tried to get me prodded when it wasn't needed. However, it's his reaction to the vote that speak volumes more.