Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
- Survivor
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- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
I think NM still plays to win con or they would have been banned a while ago, me thinks.In post 1689, DArby wrote:
I'm aware of how NM plays. I'd imagine it'd carry over to ELo?In post 1685, LicketyQuickety wrote:
I may have said NM would hammer to bait you. Sorry about that.In post 1679, DArby wrote:NM would probably hammer.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Huh. Well I guess that proves NM/me aren’t s/s.In post 1701, LicketyQuickety wrote:
I think NM still plays to win con or they would have been banned a while ago, me thinks.In post 1689, DArby wrote:
I'm aware of how NM plays. I'd imagine it'd carry over to ELo?In post 1685, LicketyQuickety wrote:
I may have said NM would hammer to bait you. Sorry about that.In post 1679, DArby wrote:NM would probably hammer.-
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Egix96 he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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viewtopic.php?p=12766682#p12766682In post 1696, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Can you show me where you have done this before? Please and thank you.In post 1693, Egix96 wrote:
I just feel it's redundant to include nulls in a reads list.In post 1672, Save The Dragons wrote:i don't think it's unreasonable to leave off the two slots he did (why/N_M, you) because neither really had content at that point but it is weird they aren't just null
This was a town list rather than a complete reads list but that's only because I didn't have a confident sr at that point.
viewtopic.php?p=12939319#p12939319
I only mentioned the people I had reads on, plus those I just wanted to see if they would post anything.
viewtopic.php?p=12302983#p12302983
Not sure if you would count this but that was just me saying the only reads I had at the time.
I could go further back through my ego but I would rather concentrate on re-reading the game we're in right now and you can always do your own searching if you really want to.-
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Egix96 he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Darby being town is what I'm most confident on. I thought so even before the claim even though I obviously can't prove that now.In post 1700, LicketyQuickety wrote:Egix, could you drop some reads? Please and thank you.
I feel like the Enchant kill more likely comes from someone who is outside PoE, which makes me lean you scum over NM. (Dragons had just been taken out of the PoE by Koba at that point iirc but eh, I'm not confident on this)-
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Egix96 he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Considering that Gamma later switched to you in 698 I'm not so sure.In post 1594, Save The Dragons wrote:
this doesn't feel like scum theatreIn post 634, Gamma Emerald wrote:
VOTE: LicketyQuicketyIn post 630, LicketyQuickety wrote:
That's nice. Now engage me with the question I asked you. You're avoiding talking to me directly for some reason and IDK why.In post 628, Gamma Emerald wrote:
LMAOIn post 620, LicketyQuickety wrote:
I don't have a super-strong feeling that it is, but how else is Pan getting elimmed?In post 619, Save The Dragons wrote:why do you think it's me
I think Pan's points against you are not bad though.
Quick might be scum here if StD is town
This is scum badgering.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
Can you provide a RL with reasons? Please and thank you.In post 1705, Egix96 wrote:
Darby being town is what I'm most confident on. I thought so even before the claim even though I obviously can't prove that now.In post 1700, LicketyQuickety wrote:Egix, could you drop some reads? Please and thank you.
I feel like the Enchant kill more likely comes from someone who is outside PoE, which makes me lean you scum over NM. (Dragons had just been taken out of the PoE by Koba at that point iirc but eh, I'm not confident on this)I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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haven't thought much about this game today
would like N_M to claim soon-
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
It seems like you are assuming NM is going to claim PR. What is this based on?In post 1709, DArby wrote:I don’t think he will, and if he does I don’t see the point in trusting it.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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- Posts: 12785
- Joined: May 14, 2015
- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
Yeah, but again, you are assuming NM doesn't play to win con. Like, why do you think that?In post 1712, DArby wrote:To clarify: I don't think NM will claim. Period. And if he does I think it will be a way to throw off the game.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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I don't think he'd care enough to.In post 1713, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Yeah, but again, you are assuming NM doesn't play to win con. Like, why do you think that?In post 1712, DArby wrote:To clarify: I don't think NM will claim. Period. And if he does I think it will be a way to throw off the game.-
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LicketyQuickety Survivor
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- Location: Where the moon and the sea meet.
Yeah, but that would get him banned, don't you think?In post 1714, DArby wrote:
I don't think he'd care enough to.In post 1713, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Yeah, but again, you are assuming NM doesn't play to win con. Like, why do you think that?In post 1712, DArby wrote:To clarify: I don't think NM will claim. Period. And if he does I think it will be a way to throw off the game.I was anything worse than you! Anything worse than you was I!
You was doided teh aposit_tisopa het dedoid saw em.-
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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DArby He/HimMafia ScumHe/Him
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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I’m VTAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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would like this as well, will probably post my thoughts shortlyIn post 1707, LicketyQuickety wrote:Can you provide a RL with reasons? Please and thank you.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Not mafia hasn't said much which is a bummer but his read on me today is interesting because I would think I would be an easy shot for scum to argue.-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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does scum overnight effort to write a damning case against pan this is what i'm having the most trouble with
In post 980, DArby wrote:I’m writing this currently on a google doc the midnight before d3, and I will be so mad if I somehow end up nk’ed. The second half of d1 took me by complete surprise in pace and intensity so I wasn’t able to properly catch up as I’d like to until now. This hit me while I was about to go to sleep so here we are.
The big question that was ignored, and I feel was done intentionally, was why was Ben specifically killed n1? That’s a really huge question. N1 kills should be reserved for the slot that is the biggest danger to scum OR gives scum the biggest long game advantage. So why Ben? What does scum get out of killing a slot with literally one scum read and a final vote on a vt?
I firmly believe it’s the latter. Specifically I am of the opinion that the nk was done to give an opportunity for scum.
Now as I’m writing this before the n2 kill happens I have no idea if this hypothesis will hold. I will be at work during the time d3 starts. I will add an addendum if necessary, however I cannot make a post in time to do this thought justice, as I truly believe time is of the essence.
Here is what I mean: I believe the Ben nk and the Gamma wagon were coordinated efforts by Pan aka Koba to control the narrative and play a long con game to secure a scum victory.
As I don’t feel like running this in a text editor, all posts referenced will not be hyperlinked.
First, the obvious, what were Ben’s stances while he was still alive d1.
Ben played by mostly producing town reads, which he reiterated multiple times. 511 where he produced the “only ones” he could form reads on and 790 where most of his reads were town or null except the d1 mislim and Gamma, who was scum. Sure, you could make the argument that since Gamma was the only other scum read he had that scum was scared he was close. Me being able to post this in d3 is proof against that theory as according to 799 I was the only person to hold a vote on Gamma until the end. Granted, my push wasn’t amazingly strong, but it was stronger than Ben’s.
So then, why Ben? What was the point of taking him out. With as how many lines were drawn during the end, surely there was a better threat to take out.
And I think that was the point. I don’t think scum could have known his role somehow during n1 before he was killed. However he was one of the most divorced players from the game (ie, being in the least amount of confrontations) while also being a player that could be taken seriously. He was projectable, and that’s how his nk was treated by Pan.
Look at 813. We cannot prove if Pan is or is not part of the neighborhood. There is no way that they can be cc’d. I believe that was quick thinking on their part. Pan has been trying to make themselves be seen an conf town since early d1 (262, 327, and 430 (which I also skimmed thru at first, thank you for your value in me, sorry my input is leading to this)). If I were scum, and a competent and trusted townie that can be projected on post mortem that also tr’s me dies, I’d milk that dry. Not to mention Ben’s only other spoken scum read, although weak, is scum (which I’d know as I am hypothetically scum). This is the perfect target.
Of course, Gamma was an informed mafia. Does that mean that scum knew directly that Gamma was scum? No. However, I still believe Pan would still want to hunt down the informed at least for the same reason as above: towncred. Assuming scum didn’t know who the informed was, they’d either know there was one or could guess. It was mentioned before (by T3 I think).
Gamma was a replacement for Cookie who was on the block mid d1, but they were on the block because of Pan. Again, if we follow this line of logic, from the start Pan is actively trying to look as town as possible and is using aggressive argument styles which would push away anything but a strong and confident read against them. If they catch scum d1, that would put their towncred through the roof. To my knowledge the only thing that stopped Pan from getting what they wanted originally was cookie repping out, StD repping in and eventually Meg being the only logical conclusion for a d1 lem.
I think I’ve made my d1 point.
D2 is where things get more interesting. Now we know Ben’s role and Pan ran with this. It’s the best possible outcome for someone who understands how roles works. They know what they’re saying doesn’t make sense for the intensity of what they’re saying. Why would Ben have a stronger read against Gamma in a PT (815) when Pan literally townread Ben for “talking to open air” in 379? That just does not make sense for someone to be open with their play style to push harder someone in private. I also don’t buy 961. It’s very, very possible for scum 1 to say kill this bitch and scum 2 say lemme roleblock them first. As long as the person killing is not also doing the roleblock, it’s not only possible but very likely to happen. But, that’s beside my point.
The point is I don’t care if Ben was or was not role blocked, I care why he was killed and how his death was used going into d2. Pan was the only one who used his death in any meaningful way to instantly control the narrative to stand next to an actual comf town. Pan wants us to believe they are a conf town in 904 because there’s no counter claim but I honestly believe they got lucky and either knew or took an educated guess that no one else could possibly cc them.
And as much as I bitch about meta, this is the same slot that had a spat with Norwee in Squid Game about needing to take time to properly find scum and yet that is a stark difference to what happened in d2 and a less than 5 page game.
I’m willing to expand on what I’m saying as I’ve made a few rough edits, but I’ll be at work during this time so please bare with me.
TL;DR Pan is scum.In post 982, LicketyQuickety wrote:
Spoiler: Nobody: Quick:
Spoiler: I’m just a poor boy from a poor family
VOTE: Pan AKA Koba
Spoiler: In Case I Am Wrong About Pan And It’s Just StD
And that about wraps up the TvS read I had between Pan v StD.
Spoiler: Gamma Spew-
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Egix96 he/himMafia Scumhe/him
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Tbh I don't think this is all that relevantIn post 1721, Save The Dragons wrote:does scum overnight effort to write a damning case against pan this is what i'm having the most trouble with
Still working on my next post-
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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Save The Dragons He/HimProtection unnecessaryHe/Him
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i mean these are huge spews by people if they're both town then it's just you and N_M if one is scum there could be a hint in them
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