Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins

[Not_Mafia]

Not mafia hasn't said much which is a bummer but his read on me today is interesting because I would think I would be an easy shot for scum to argue.

What more would I have to say tbh, I’ve given my reads and the reasons for them

[Not_Mafia]

Is traitor confirmed or was that just Koba’s opinion?

[Save The Dragons]

traitor is not confirmed i think that was just assumed based on "informed"

[Save The Dragons]

and balance

[Not_Mafia]

Why does informed imply traitor?

[Not_Mafia]

The balance angle I can see, even if Darby’s fake claim were real

[Save The Dragons]

isn't that something mafia could be informed about?

i don't really know if it's been done before or not i just assumed that "you know there's a traitor in this game" could count as informed

[Egix96]

I think cookie was Town. Good thought process and logical mindset. Didn't sense a motive and I buy his RT.

Has read on cookie that hasn't aged well, when asked to elaborate further he says...

because you found town!them on day 2 similarly to myself rather than d1

I fail to see your point.

my point is to figure out if you're finding cool cookie as town via TMI - can you elaborate where you saw cookie's towny posts?

I'd have to go back and look granted I can remember. I read the thread last night before I went to bed because I figured I would probably get the slot.

I already gave you a reason for the read. Deal with that if you want. I'm not incapable of making these kinds of reads. I've made accurate reads on P1 (but I usually change my reads as the game progresses because I'm just bad at sticking to initial impressions).

Response suggests to me that he was trying to defend a partner without having properly thought it through.

Pan, why is Cookie Scum?

Indirectly defending the slot.

VOTE: cookie
Sure

Another bad take. And no reasoning attatched.

Self-explanatory.

That's nice. Now engage me with the question I asked you. You're avoiding talking to me directly for some reason and IDK why.

(Click through to see context)
Admittedly this is one interaction that gives me pause, since to me this does feel like something that scum partners would be unwilling to point out as they would see it as something that would make them look partnered. Then again, as I type this line, I realise this could be levelled.

because quick understands its NAI for me

I mean, kinda, yeah. But like, that's why I propose chopping you if StD flips Town.

Of course, that means you have to vote Gamma here, which isn't a good look honestly.

Looking bad for voting scum?? Imagine that.

VOTE: StD
I actually like that LQ had the guts to vote Pan

I have evolved again. I would evolve into Quick as I evolved into LQ but this is more of a silent evolution.

VOTE: StD

It should be self-explanatory how partnery this looks. Btw gamma's pivot, shown nested here, is part of why I think Dragons is less likely scum than Quick.

StD Pan LQ
T3 Darby
NM Egix Enchant
Gamma Meg

Okay, Gamma is just Scum here.

To me this does not look like a towny approach, more like TMI. No consideration shown of the Ben kill being a frame/successful PR hunt.

***

why the heck are people voting cookie

I'm aware that this also exists, but Dragons's interactions with the Gamma slot are few so there's not much I can conclude there. Fwiw tho he does give a null read in 446.

NM has practically nothing between himself and the Gamma slot. Ftr I am not regarding Gamma's vote on NM as indicative because... well, I mean this in the nicest possible terms, but voting NM as a distancing tactic should not be seen as surprising.

I am regarding Darby's claim as Occam's Razor town since everyone else has claimed VT and imo it makes sense from a balance perspective for his role to exist if there are two scum left.
However, if by any chance we hit town today but the game doesn't end, it is likely bunk.

[Egix96]

isn't that something mafia could be informed about?

i don't really know if it's been done before or not i just assumed that "you know there's a traitor in this game" could count as informed

I thought koba already established that that would be separate?

[Egix96]

why

I thought overnight wall cases were generally regarded as NAI.
Idk about darby but I don't see why Quick can't do it, based on what I have seen of his playstyle

[LicketyQuickety]

Egix being the only person SRing me makes me pause. Do they really think they can Lim me here?

Like, yeah, my association with Gamma on D1 was bad, but I voted Gamma for something they did D2 which I never outed and it had to do with their approach to something. Let me try and find it.

It was this:

NAR dictates that if a CL is killed that their action from that night isn't counted. CLs can't exist in normal games but the same NAR principles apply
so depending on where "neighborize" sits in NAR should dictate what happens, actually

Because I was only half serious in my push on Pan not being Neighborized (to a point). When Gamma was still pushing that angle, I knew they were Scum. But I still don't know what CL is, I just knew I smelled some funny business from Gamma. And after I voted Gamma, they self hammered. That's an exceptionally weird play if we are both Scum here.

[Not_Mafia]

isn't that something mafia could be informed about?

i don't really know if it's been done before or not i just assumed that "you know there's a traitor in this game" could count as informed

I assume they’d be informed when they didn’t have a full faction. Scum can be informed of a million different things, I don’t get the leap to traitor. Who was the first to suggest this? It just seems like a perspective slip

[LicketyQuickety]

isn't that something mafia could be informed about?

i don't really know if it's been done before or not i just assumed that "you know there's a traitor in this game" could count as informed

I assume they’d be informed when they didn’t have a full faction. Scum can be informed of a million different things, I don’t get the leap to traitor. Who was the first to suggest this? It just seems like a perspective slip

Normal guidelines for Traitor is Group Scum know there is a traitor in the game...

Spoiler:

[LicketyQuickety]

To me this does not look like a towny approach, more like TMI. No consideration shown of the Ben kill being a frame/successful PR hunt.

I talked about the NK a lot more than that. This looks like you are trying to frame me...

[LicketyQuickety]

my vibes currently tell me its 2 scum 1 traitor at worst and just 2 scum otherwise.

i do not think we have 3 groupscum - but i have played in a setup that was 12p 3 groupscum which was evil and also town played terribad and i was unable to unvote when there was no hammer so yep lol

Here's the first time it was seriously considered. It was by Pan, who everyone believed for some reason. But I've maintained all game Traitor hunting is a fool's errand.

[LicketyQuickety]

So, if there are just 2 Group Scum, then they are probably both a PR. In which case, I believe DArby's claim. If, on the other hand, we have 3 Group Scum, then Informed was probably Scum's only PR.

But given DArby's claim is legit, I CAN actually see a false clear on a Traitor.

In any case, we never Lim DArby here.

I'm kinda thinking Egix wouldn't have the balls to push me here if they are Scum. NM could have claimed something besides VT which would have put a monkey wrench in the mix. But they claimed VT so they are probably Town here (bad read, but I'm going with it at this point).

So I guess that just leaves StD?

StD derping on Traitor info is telling. I probably vote there.

[Egix96]

To me this does not look like a towny approach, more like TMI. No consideration shown of the Ben kill being a frame/successful PR hunt.

I talked about the NK a lot more than that. This looks like you are trying to frame me...

I must have missed that then, I was relying on ctrl-f in order to not take forever to find relevant posts

[Save The Dragons]

isn't that something mafia could be informed about?

i don't really know if it's been done before or not i just assumed that "you know there's a traitor in this game" could count as informed

I assume they’d be informed when they didn’t have a full faction. Scum can be informed of a million different things, I don’t get the leap to traitor. Who was the first to suggest this? It just seems like a perspective slip

Normal guidelines for Traitor is Group Scum know there is a traitor in the game...

Spoiler:

cite this for me please

[Save The Dragons]

StD derping on Traitor info is telling.

why

i've played with a traitor since i got back but i haven't seriously played with a traitor as a major mechanic since i was last playing mafia 5 years ago

[Egix96]

Egix being the only person SRing me makes me pause. Do they really think they can Lim me here?

Like, yeah, my association with Gamma on D1 was bad, but I voted Gamma for something they did D2

which I never outed

and it had to do with their approach to something. Let me try and find it.

It was this:

NAR dictates that if a CL is killed that their action from that night isn't counted. CLs can't exist in normal games but the same NAR principles apply
so depending on where "neighborize" sits in NAR should dictate what happens, actually

Because I was only half serious in my push on Pan not being Neighborized (to a point). When Gamma was still pushing that angle, I knew they were Scum. But I still don't know what CL is, I just knew I smelled some funny business from Gamma. And after I voted Gamma, they self hammered. That's an exceptionally weird play if we are both Scum here.

Bolded = oh how convenient /s

CL = cult leader

How exactly is it a weird play? I don't see how you mean so.

[Not_Mafia]

Why do we believe Darby's role?

Can anyone show a back-up of a limited shot role in a normal game? If you want a back-up named townie, you'd put in a back-up of a role not in the game. Not this weird, back-up of a 2-shot role half measure

[Save The Dragons]

i'm hesitant to believe darby's claim for that reason but i think his play is townie so i'm torn

[Not_Mafia]

And honestly STD's traitor confusion makes me think he's town more, Traitor is implemented a lot of different ways, especially in older site meta that STD is used to so uncertainty about traitor mechanics will be the norm to him

[Save The Dragons]

informed is also a new thing that wasn't around when i last was playing regularly

[Not_Mafia]

I'm so sure it's Darby and Egix here, I can feel it in my bones