Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[Skillit]

vote:crazy

for being

juuuust

crazy enough to work...

for the mafia

!!!

[Skillit]

Electra = Mohinder Suresh lrofl

[Skillit]

Sthar8 you should post your idea on a fake myspace and make it a blog or something obscure so we know you had the theory

now

when we see it later and that you are not just retroactively creating the theory. just remind us to have you link us

then

to the page/blog post you can make

now

.

oh i reread again today because i thought there was something

'odd'

about what electra said:

1) People with roles - if they are boosted, then they get an additional night choice, or night kill immunity, or something like that
2) People without roles - if they are boosted, they acquire a night choice, or NK immunity, or gain some piece of information or something
3) Mafia - if we boost them, they probably get things like investigation immunity or an extra night kill, or a NK that overrides doc/boosted NK immunity

people with, people without, and mafia.

Electra if the mafia aren't people, what are they?

There are likely either only 2 categories, or 4. it seems presumptuous to assume that all mafia members would be in one category when everyone else falls into one of 2. I agree that people either have or do not have roles, but to assume that either all or no mafia have roles seems like it would require some extra information to assert. you don't...have extra information about the specifics of the mafia members powers...

do you?

If im being confusing on this just tell me, i get a lot of sass for that.

BTW - im patting myself on the back for my odd lil pun.

[Skillit]

Why did you immediately accept Electra's claim?

umm i was making a joke.

Mohinder Suresh is a character from the show Heroes who basically injected himself with a serum that was unsafe because he wanted a superpower so badly.

I was saying that Electra just wants to be special

[Skillit]

Should Banesh Hoffmann have allowed Al to make

his

proofs unverifiable???

I think we would all agree that he would not, sir...i think we all agree that he would

indeed

not.

[Skillit]

if you're saying that you think Electra just wants to be special...then doesn't that imply that you believe her vanilla claim?

The logic of my jesting @ her for being like the guy on Heroes who threw caution to the wind to get a 'boost of power' implying that i accepted her claim is pretty convoluted. But are you implying that when i said "she just wants to be special" I meant that "she just wants some kind of power" and that that statement, when coupled with her flawed assumption* (see below) that only town would have no power but could potentially get one - this would imply that my thinking that her wanting a power implied that i believed her as town?

If not then i dont understand how my joke about her being rash in her lust for power implies anything.

if so, then my response would be:
no not at all.
1) i didnt really think about it that much before i posted it, her post just seemed like motive #1 was to get that boost.
2) Scum would want to boosted as much (if not more so) as town...I don't see how reading her as just wanting to be boosted requires her to be vanilla or is any way indicative of acceptance of the claim. I see her wanting to get boosted as just wanting to get boosted.
for example:I could argue to you many reasons why you should give me some crack cocaine, but you dont have to agree with my reasons or with anything i say to just think that im just a junkie out to score myself some smack. and i simply think she just wants

some crack

to be boosted.

Having thought

further

on this i now realize that there is no reason to believe that there is an odd number of potential categories. I think Electra's basic assumption was inherently flawed in that there would likely be an even number of categories, most likely 4 (Mafia with no power but the potential to acquire one).

*Electra's assumption was that everyone fell into 1 of 3 categories. Anyone who got boosted got some kind of power, either in the form of an augmentation of an

existing

power, the

addition

of a power, or the

augmentation of a mafia

power.Electra

illogically

assumes 3 possibilities. If her theory assumes 2 sides (scum and town) and includes her 2 categories (w/ and w/o power) the obvious conclusion is 4 possibilities, not 3. Its odd (heh get it? odd?? ehh??) to me that she omitted the category of scum w/ no power but the potential to gain one as it logically and mathematically seems as self evident as the town version.

TL;DR version /conclusion

-it was just a joke, and no i never accepted her claim.
I just think she just wants to be boosted, and i now think that her 3 categories theory is fundamentally flawed in that it skips over the possibility that scum could have no power but gain one from boosts. To exclude this to me implies either
1) hasty judgment - which implies a thirst for power
2) hasty scum judgment- with implies a thirst for power and blood

[Skillit]

how is it reaching? and what could it even be reaching

towards

? Im just pointing out that logically her theory requires a 4th category.

This might be easier to explain w/ a visual.

Electra's theory- 3 categories with 2 alignments and 2 possibilities. 2 x 2 = 3
[mrow] Ele[col]With Power[col] Without Power Town[col] X [col]X Scum[col] X

My statement - 2 alignments 2 possibilities. 2x2=4
[mrow] Skl[col]With Power[col] Without Power Town[col] X [col]X Scum[col] X[col] x

to say that there are only 3 possibilities is just illogical.

[Skillit]

Jahudo - i had an answer all typed up but i got some kind of popup and lost everything and now in too angry to retype. >_<

the gist of it was that i was not trying to imply any kind of slant either way about E and that i was just trying to make sure that, if we were going to use her theory to frame the discussion about boosting, that it should be as accurate as possible.

[Skillit]

HOLY CRAP - how many times in life do you get back a lost paper/post? Well i will tell you. Its like NEVER. apparently i had a popup that somehow became mafiascum and just looked like i had lost my post. when i closed my browser i had a second one. woo! no work lost!

But you have a very thorough follow up so are you leaning to any serious conclusions on Electra yet?

- i am just a generally thorough person who sometimes has too much time on his hands. I just cant help myself. Ask just about anyone and they would tell you that im overly thorough, but i am working on it. (thats why i try to TLDR just about every post). I am really trying hard to be less so, and to make my posts more readable, but i am but a flawed man.

As far as the (3v4) issue- i was just trying to make sure that our framework for any discussion on boosting is as accurate as possible. I interpreted Electra as proposing her theory about the way the game was setup to help everyone better understand the

mechanics

of the setup and to generate discussion on the specific topic of boosts.. A more complete understanding of the reality of the mechanics cannot help but to be more accurate than an inaccurate one, and would assist in our individual and collective boost strategies and in the discussion of such strats..

As far as any conclusions about her - i dont really feel like the 3 vs 4 issue is really any kind of definitive tell. I made a snarky comment at the end of one of my posts, something like "how could you know this??" or something (not really worth looking up). It was obviously poorly placed and implemented, and was a gigantic distraction from my point, so i should point out that i was not trying to incriminate her or call out anything, i just tend to joke around a lot during the first few pages.

TL;DR

Version - i was just trying to make sure that, if we were going to use her model as the framework for a discussion on boosts (as Electra seemed to be hoping for) that that framework be as strong as possible.

Also

Boost: Incognito

for allowing me to indulge in more heroes chat. (really for making the effort to understand my point)

non game related section:

Incognito

- Mohinder

used

to be good see, but now he is kind of conflicted. He is not a good or bad guy really. its up in the air! atm, If he is one or the other, he is a total bad guy. not really game related though, so i now end the heroes talk. (Not

to be continued. . .

)

[Skillit]

(heh get it? odd?? ehh??)

"She said 3 instead of 4, i find that odd" odd as in odd numbered. it was a pun. i thought it was kinda funny /shrug

[Skillit]

I am particuarly bothered because his attack on Electra in post 21...is later justified in post 27

i did this because i was specifically asked to do so. Incog was saying that my making a joke about Electra being like Mohinder i was immediately accepting something that i wasn't and i had to explain why it didn't mean what he was saying it did. and reading it, does it really look like an attack to you?

really

? i think its pretty clear that i wasnt being aggressive towards Electra at all. i was prolly too joke-y with her, but it was honestly just joke-y ness. As electra said we had just finished a game w/ her as the traitor to the town. i don't really think that these remarks can be fairly read as an attack on electra. I think that if anything my fairly obvious tendency to be overly thorough gives more than enough reasoning to suggest it unlikely that i would be attacking anyone in this nonchalant manner. I really think its quite a stretch to take a few statements like this and truss them up to be some covert attack that is completely unlike me that makes no real points and just happens to perfectly coincide with a later justification that it was never an attack at all. occum's razor anyone? I really think that her "i want to be boosted"

Electra

- do you think i was attacking you? Being the one i was addressing, you (and sthar8) have the context behind what i said. did it seem like an attack, or something else?

a lot of post 27 has obviously been thought of after post 21. So post 27 isn't explaining the reason for the attack, it is creating reasons as to why the attack was valid after the event.

You are saying here that because part of it contains reasoning that i couldn't have had when making the initial post, the whole thing is therefore invalidated. but thats flawed thinking, and is just false. Do you think that the enumerated reasonings that i gave are really that implausible/unrealistic/contentious? There is a clear line where i depart from my initial reasonings and add what you would call 'after the fact justification, which i provided as means of further explaining subsequent points that i had made.
You guys are taking this way out of context and blowing it up way too far.

@

ilord

-You mentioned confusion. Here is the issue as i see it. i made a joke about her just wanting to get a boost right after electra made her boost post. Incog took this joke as my immediately accepting her claim. in refuting this i made some more fun about how electra was a traitor in our last game. This is being construed as a feeble attack on her. to me the basic issue is "were the remarks some feeble attempt to attack Electra or were they more likely something else?" I feel like its come down to a "this was an attack!" versus "no, it really wasnt" but there is nothing i can really say because nobody seems to even be

entertaining

the possibility that they are wrong.

[Skillit]

A lot of my posts have been defense related, but thats mostly due to the large number of posts i needed to defend from more than anything, this also puts me in danger of any point being viewed as some kind of "omgus" It is therefore ironic that i think that those who seemed to most fervently stay silent on the issue of my poor humor/attacks are the scummiest. Mostly because i think that everyone should have commented on it, and to not do so seems evasive. But at the same time there is almost certainly at least

one

scum on my wagon

RR voiced passive agreement with the campaign on me by doing a real fast 'qft' of Sthar8's post here, but hasn't since even discussed the issue (unless you count this) even after he voted for Sthar8 - this seemed odd to me, like he was trying to avoid supporting too hard a wagon he knew was off base and was instead focusing somewhere else.

Speaking of Sthar8 - Sthar8 knows me better than anyone on this site and i think he knew i was just kidding, even if nobody else did. the fact that he only spoke about the relevance of what i was saying, and never taking it either way (scum / town) seems like intentional aversion to the subject. its not at all like him to avoid topics of major discussion (which i think those from all camps can agree this was at least), so his doing so seems a little questionable.

-side note;

Electra

you asked if there was a completed game i was in that i wasnt scum, and there is, it just ended today, I replaced the claimed doc like, end of day day 3. posted a few times, got scum lynched and died that night. actually figured out and advised the rest of the town on who the other scum was but nobody listened to me /fume.
-sice note 2; Jahudo you asked before what TL;DR meant, i cant remember if anyone answered you. it means too long; didnt read.

I'm not done here, I will be back in around 3 hrs, this is just what i had typed up before I got called to go to work for a short shift.

[Skillit]

hey - this game really got away from me and my binge drinking certainly did not help. not making excuses for slacking, just trying to say that much school pressure is off and im catching up on the game now.