Open 838 – ISITMAINAC [Endgame]

[Nathann]

Hm. Based on the sluggishness of the wagons at the end of the day, and based on the fact that Galron was voting Scorpious, I think Scorpious is likely not groupscum. Will try to look at associates later when I have the time.

I skimmed Galron's ISO. Not much worth mentioning, guy's interactions were pretty bland and there's nothing I'd feel confident pointing out as strongly SvS or TvS. Except for the game-long vote on

Scorpious*

, I only now realized he was parked there the entire Day 1. I think that that is very unlikely to come from a partner. I'd assume that, if scum were deciding to RVS their buddy, they'd look for an opportunity to jump off as soon as possible, because if it happened that their buddy actually started getting votes, and they were to jump off

then

, they'd look absolutely horrible. Coupled with the fact that the wagons at EoD1 gave me a strong not-SvT gut feeling, I'm decently confident in saying Scorpious is not groupscum.

I ctrl+F'ed "Scorp" in Galron's ISO, and he did end up suspecting him throughout of Day 1 in a way that I don't think is common for scum to do to their partners. What's the endgame here, tunnel your partner throughout the whole game and do nothing else? I don't find it likely.

Then vote Scorpius. Look at how Day 1 ended, that was not a town-driven elimination.

I will need some serious explanation for this.

A Dreary Saturday Evening

(7) [HAMMER]: Nathann,

Cupcake Butterfly

,

RCEnigma

, RH9, Greeting, Scorpious,

Not_Mafia

Scorpious (5) [E-2]:

Galron

, Save The Dragons, Three,

A Dreary Saturday Evening

Save The Dragons (1): StrangeMatter

I coloured in the flips and the IC. Judging by your 425 (because I don't think you've said otherwise), you have a townread on both me and Greeting. Assuming you're correct, that's 5/7 people on that wagon town from your PoV, with the first 3 being town. On the contrary, the only flipped scum was firmly on the Scorpious wagon. By what logic did you come to the conclusion that the ADSE wagon was the one that was scum-driven? Or that it wasn't town-driven?

From what I saw of VCA, Scorpious looked unaligned with Galron to me, could you expand on that? Or link to where you have if you have.

For the record, I did read the posts before deadline. And the conclusion I had come to was that Scorpious was not groupscum, because it took so much dragging to actually get ADSE's wagon over the line, with at least one groupscum already on Scorpious. And if Scorpious was really part of the gang, they wouldn't have even gotten to that point.

[Nathann]

please elaborate on my strong anti-associates with flipped mafia.

Scorpious, no offense, but have you been reading my posts? I've said

so many times

by this point that I think you're not aligned with Galron, that's literally my strongest associative-based read. Do you really think I would be saying it for like the 7th time again?

[Nathann]

What is the scum motivation I was exhibiting and where did I slip on Day 2? You still have not answered that.

[Scorpious]

please elaborate on my strong anti-associates with flipped mafia.

Scorpious, no offense, but have you been reading my posts? I've said

so many times

by this point that I think you're not aligned with Galron, that's literally my strongest associative-based read. Do you really think I would be saying it for like the 7th time again?

Yes, I've been reading your posts, that's why I think you are mafia.

Now put it together for me in how that makes me SK.

And, no. I'm not telling you where you slipped.

[Nathann]

Now put it together for me in how that makes me SK.

That

doesn't make you SK, don't twist it. Your "read" on me here reads like garbage because I have seen zero reason to believe that you're not just pulling things out of your ass about "seeing scum motivation from me" or "me slipping on Day 2". I know I'm not scum, so I know you're wrong. I can't tell whether you are genuinely wrong or if you're just trying to shitpush me because you think it's gonna look townie. I don't think you're mafia, so either you're SK trying to appear townie by spouting nonsense or you're a stubborn VT who's gonna lose us the game.

[Save The Dragons]

And, no. I'm not telling you where you slipped.

why

[Scorpious]

Now put it together for me in how that makes me SK.

That

doesn't make you SK, don't twist it. Your "read" on me here reads like garbage because I have seen zero reason to believe that you're not just pulling things out of your ass about "seeing scum motivation from me" or "me slipping on Day 2". I know I'm not scum, so I know you're wrong. I can't tell whether you are genuinely wrong or if you're just trying to shitpush me because you think it's gonna look townie. I don't think you're mafia, so either you're SK trying to appear townie by spouting nonsense or

you're a stubborn VT who's gonna lose us the game.

there is that concerned townie "us" again..

[Scorpious]

And, no. I'm not telling you where you slipped.

why

not yet

[Nathann]

Only mafia ever refers to themselves as town, you heard it here first, folks.

[RCEnigma]

I think you guys are putting more stock into Galron spewing Scorpius town than I am. That said I'm fine with flipping jacket today.

[Scorpious]

As requested. Some of Nathann's scumminess

Spoiler:

You both did, and I didn’t say it %100 made you snicklefritz, it’s just something that i wanted to question.

You are coming off a little sensitive, though.

I mean, sure. I question negative reads on my slot that don't make sense to me. Call it sensitive if you want.

In other news, I have potentially bad reasons to think ADSE is town. The way they spew takes without any explanation or fluff added seems like they don't care too much about their image (otherwise they would've fabricated some thought process with them), which in my experience more often comes from town. This is potentially bad because this tell isn't that useful with experienced players, and they said they're an alt, so.

Also, I got some townie pings from Save The Dragons. Mostly the fact that, when I first read, I also thought Greeting's tone there is bad, and something something mindmeld. By this point, I'm not sure I still think his tone is scummy there, but Save The Dragons can stay above the null line for now.

Anyone else getting the feeling that Galron is trying to ask all the right questions and seems to be solving, but his heart just isn't in it?

I would be down for policying Not_Mafia if we decide to go in that direction.

super opportunistic.

Are we reading the same game? I can see Scorpious and Jacket being consensus townreads, but I don't remember you being townread, let alone that being consensus.

where did this change?

RCEnigma, is massclaim a good idea here? Considering the shortened deadline, we should get to it if we're planning to.

more concerned town..

I don't think there is a way to know for sure? The other kill might have gone onto the SK, saved by a Doc (we have an IC after all), or they could've doubled up.

Why do you think Scorpious is scum? I'm not gonna say I love his contributions today, far from it, but not quite confirmed scum to me.

still haven't progressed to thinking I'm scum yet..

You called him scum, obviously that's where you messed up.

I'm just annoyed because I really thought I had found some anti-associatives for Scorpious and Jacket, plus that the way the EoD wagons were playing out suggested TvT. The team would have to be exactly Looker + RH9 if I hadn't messed up anywhere there,

and that's not even thinking about the SK, which I have no clue how to look for.

but you figured it out with me?

VOTE: Scorpious

Fine, makes the job easier for me.

And here it is, supposedly not OMGUS and supposedly I'm SK..

How did we get here Nathann?

If anyone needs me to spell out why Scorpious's posts towards me are dishonest garbage, let me know. I would still like to believe my VCA theory was right and that he's the SK, but I'm not sure if it really matters at this point.

You said you had no idea how to find an SK then say I'm it based on your VCA,then.. of course.. the hedge

[Jacket]

I think you guys are putting more stock into Galron spewing Scorpius town than I am. That said I'm fine with flipping jacket today.

You shouldn't be.

[Jacket]

You should be voting Looker, or, failing that, Nathann. I' not sure about all of Scorp's case but the way he called out Galron a bit but didn't really push it does look like distancing.

[Jacket]

Still haven't heard an actual reason why RCE seems to think I'm sum beyond Three's shitty case pairing me with Scorp.

[Nathann]

Response to 1110:

Frankly, I don't even remember that happening on Day 1, but what I'm assuming happened is that I called Galron out, and nobody agreed with me. And I was more suspicious of other people. Why would I even try to get attention on him without actually voting him?

Not_Mafia was doing less than nothing, and you were calling for his head too. Don't try to make it like wanting him dead is somehow anti-town.

It changed on Day 3? What are you even trying to ask with that?

Asking the IC whether we should be claiming is "concerned town", yeah, concerned town about the short deadline and the fact this game is lurky as shit.

And for this "progression" you tried to make up about me. I didn't think you were scum at start of Day, correct. I didn't have an idea what would be SK-specific tells to look for in people, correct. Then you started acting like scum - you said you have reasons to think I'm scum, mainly the "slip" and my "motivation". You didn't show any of those. That means they're probably bullshit and don't exist. If you were town, you'd want to actually sort me, doing whatever you were doing there is not sorting. That is how we got there.

You are not SK based on my VCA.

Stop misrepresenting that I said that. I said you're

not mafia

based on my VCA. That is it. I'm saying you're not town based on the was you're playing around me, because it definitely didn't look like how town plays. So, if you're not mafia, and you're not town...

[RCEnigma]

Which part of that was Nathan's slip?

[Scorpious]

Yeah, I don’t buy any of it Nathann..

RC, there was none. I just wanted to see who would be first to ask me about it.

It was him..

This slot is scum..

[Scorpious]

It helps when you quote things. Makes it tougher to BS

I didn’t make up any progression. There was none. That’s why I said that.

[Nathann]

How is asking about where I scumslipped when I'm not scum something only scum does? What is a townie reaction, going "yeah haha, I sure scumslipped, you got me"? Am I losing my mind?

[Nathann]

You quoted some of my posts and pretended there was an illogical progression while completely ignoring the posts that actually cleared it up...

[Scorpious]

Dude you OMGUSed me.

Just come clean about it.

[Nathann]

You proclaimed me scum on reasoning that seemed very much bullshit -- and I was right about it too! -- that's not townie. Not every vote made in response to someone else voting is OMGUS.

[Scorpious]

If it wasn’t OMGUS is was a vote on me “being SK” with literally no backing.

So which was it?

[Nathann]

"Nathann scumslipped, and I will not say where."
"I'm not scum, so I can't scumslip, and the fact you don't want to say where you see the 'scumslip' makes me think you're making up reasons to vote me."
"Actually, there was never any scumslip, Nathann is scum for asking about it."

Am I seriously the only person who sees the problem with this???

[Nathann]

My "backing" was that your vote looked fake as fuck -- Which you admitted to yourself.