Mini 666 - This Could Be Mafia - MOD ABANDONED

[Muerrto]

No, I mean his vehemence and insults instead of simply saying 'that was a retarded reason to vote me' or 'how does my asking for your prod make me scum'? Also, town would've most likely said 'oops didn't see you just posted' instead of trying to pursue the crappy case on me.

Being abrasive or tact-less is not a scumtell.

Agreed. Your(Tajo's not yours) defense being 'I'm town and if you don't think so then you're obv scum' is in fact a definite scum tell. Especially since he's been doing it for like 20 pages now.

[populartajo]

Do I have to prove why this last statement isnt true?
Here are some quotes for you:

Nhat: Although he was the first attacking me I can understand the point of his attacks. Doesnt agree with my logic but uses good reasoning and so far has reacted protown to the happenings. Slightly protown.

Shadowgirl: Still dont know if this girl is scum or isnt just paying attention. Joins the group of thinking Timeter asking a replacement is null tell. Joins the attackers of my case. Low posting. Neutral.

Shadowgirl and Vivian are very far to think Im town.
But I dont think any of them are scum.
So, FAIL!
Yes, I have a bad attitude and I get frustrated when I am attacked for WEAK resoning and no one seems to get my point. Shadowgirl can prove this.
I already apologized for that behavior.
So cut the crap, dude. Seriously. You're looking worst and worst with each post. Stop avoiding my posts. Kay?

[pickemgenius]

SHIT GETTING THIS IN MY WATCHED GAMES LIST NOW. BEEN ACTUALLY P BUSY RECENTLY TOMORROW IS A FREE DAY (CEPT IM VOTING)...

[competentpsycho]

Love how you attack me and my way of playing mafia and not my arguments. Love it.
Yes. I'm pissed today so I should stop posting before you all lynch me.
See ya tomorrow.

this was another one of your "if you are not with me, you are against me" tactics. Like I said, nothing had occured to sway me from my vote. Can you provide anything that I should pay closer attention to (in your arguements) that should be enough to prove your innocence and sway anyones vote?

Grimmy
looking for proof in the pudding

Interesting post Grimmy. He said nothing about you being scum, or you not being with him in that post. He just stated that you are attacking his playstyle rather than his reasoning. This is an extreme strawman to the point of stupidity. I have arrived at the conclusion that you play stupidly, which makes telling if you are scum really hard. You don't even seem to read the posts you quote, just inject your argument that doesn't fit in.

Also, how can anyone prove their innocence really here. You need to have some proof that he IS scum to be voting. All you have for an argument is a playstyle that you and Muerrto keep saying that he has used all game long. He just posted proof that there are people against him that he does not think are scum. Unlike you and Muerrto who have used strawmen, faulty logic, and shitty reasoning, I really don't see what the case on tajo is. Can someone who is voting for him please post a list of things that prove (or point toward) him being scum?

[Muerrto]

Interesting post Grimmy. He said nothing about you being scum, or you not being with him in that post. He just stated that you are attacking his playstyle rather than his reasoning. This is an extreme strawman to the point of stupidity. I have arrived at the conclusion that you play stupidly, which makes telling if you are scum really hard. You don't even seem to read the posts you quote, just inject your argument that doesn't fit in.

Also, how can anyone prove their innocence really here. You need to have some proof that he IS scum to be voting. All you have for an argument is a playstyle that you and Muerrto keep saying that he has used all game long. He just posted proof that there are people against him that he does not think are scum. Unlike you and Muerrto who have used strawmen, faulty logic, and shitty reasoning, I really don't see what the case on tajo is. Can someone who is voting for him please post a list of things that prove (or point toward) him being scum?

You do realise CP that you've been defending him all game long and that if he DOES flip scum you'll be lynched immediately. See, as town, you don't know his role. So unless you're claiming mason, I'd back down a tad.

As for proving he's scum? No. Everyone starts in the middle and tips either town or scum. If you start everyone at town you'll never lynch anyone.

[competentpsycho]

You don't need to quote my whole post if you are replying right after it. And the chances of me getting lynched if he flips scum are probably about the same as you getting lynched if he flips town. I would say I am on the safe side there since the majority of people must be town right now.

I am not saying tajo isn't scum, just that there are much better choices at the moment (IMO anyway). If no townie ever defended anyone against stupid cases when they thought other people were scummier, the scum would make up retarded reasons to vote for someone and get them lynched on it every time.

And you seem to be avoiding my question. Post some things that point toward him being scum, besides this playstyle that you don't like so much. The only thing I have seen from you (that you haven't taken back as a reason) is the fact that he reacted to your shitty vote on him angrily. I would be angry if someone voted me for asking for a prod also. I have seen OMGUS from both of you, which is basically your only stated reason ATM for voting for him. How does that make him more scummy than you? What other reasons make you think he is scum?

[Grimmy]

Some questions ABOUT Tajo, mainly for CP
Why did he make his claim so early in the game?
Why did he stall in answering questions posed to him? AHEM


Im asking this to you because these were some of the reasons for my vote, and you seem to have dismissed them as "playing stupidly"

Note: if you want to see me REALLY play haphazardly, check my postings on the clockworkstorybook.net website in the players mafia game. Fifty posts of nothing but jokes. No meaningful contributions WHATSOEVER. it remains one of my proudest moments.

question for you CP
since you feel that I "play stupidly" does this move me further up or down your suspicion list (you stated earlier that I was your number 2 suspect)

Grimmy
no offense taken

[competentpsycho]

Thank you. You have moved to the edge of my radar. My main reason for suspecting you was a lack of scumhunting and what seemed to be playing stupidly. I see what you are doing now. No one seemed to be stating any good reasons recently to lynch him, especially Muerrto. The reason I asked that was to eliminate or confirm a suspect. I was hoping Muerrto would reply first and further incriminate himself with shitty reasoning. This is almost as good. I have known there were a couple GOOD reasons to vote for tajo, it just struck me as odd that nobody that was voting him seemed to mention any of them recently, especially Muerrto, who has had quite a few scummy actions also.

As for your 2 questions - how the hell should I know his reasoning? If you want my thoughts on possibilities for his actions:

1) You word this weird - early in his wagon is what I would assume you mean. The only thing I can think of is he panicked thinking he was going to get quick lynched. It is retarded for town to do this, I agree. If he is town, he just pointed out a power role for scum. But it seems just as premature for scum to do. For now I am attributing this to just panicking, but there could be something I am not seeing. Did you mean early in the wagon or the game?

2) Which questions exactly do you mean?

[populartajo]

I assume some questions I didnt answer for:
a)not understanding them properly since English is not my first language. (It is Spanish, FYI)
b)lack of time in horrible weeks.
c)my dumb thinking that town can understand everything I post.

[TonyMontana]

V/LA, going hiking in the mountains...

[Muerrto]

And you seem to be avoiding my question. Post some things that point toward him being scum, besides this playstyle that you don't like so much. The only thing I have seen from you (that you haven't taken back as a reason) is the fact that he reacted to your shitty vote on him angrily. I would be angry if someone voted me for asking for a prod also. I have seen OMGUS from both of you, which is basically your only stated reason ATM for voting for him. How does that make him more scummy than you? What other reasons make you think he is scum?

He reacted that way to EVERYONE that attacked him though. His defense all game has been 'I'm town'. My case has been posted multiple times.

MIA per my sig. I'll try and check tomorrow morning if needed.

[Battousai]

You do realise CP that you've been defending him all game long and that if he DOES flip scum you'll be lynched immediately. See, as town, you don't know his role. So unless you're claiming mason, I'd back down a tad.

SFOS: Muerrto

This just sounds like you're threatening CP in order for him to stop helping save tajo.

[ShadowGirl]

I am not saying tajo isn't scum, just that there are much better choices at the moment (IMO anyway).

Who is your top choice?

Sorry, haven't been checking in much. x_x

[Muerrto]

You do realise CP that you've been defending him all game long and that if he DOES flip scum you'll be lynched immediately. See, as town, you don't know his role. So unless you're claiming mason, I'd back down a tad.

SFOS: Muerrto

This just sounds like you're threatening CP in order for him to stop helping save tajo.

No, I'm telling him to stop defending Tajo like he knows Tajo's role. And to his credit, CP admitted he was doing it, admitted it was a bad idea, and admitted he was defending someone against bad arguments.

So he's not defnding Tajo so much as he's attacking my case. Huge difference and helps my opinion of CP a bit. Still very dangerous to stick your neck out that far for someone when you're not sposed to know whether they're scum or not.

[pickemgenius]

#251(fuzzy) strkies me a tad weird
#255(tajo) is a bit weird
Tajo on page 11 is kinda crazy.
#275 &276 (tony/fuzzy) seem odd
#277 strikes me even more weird (shadow)
I really don't feel like reading Tajo's general BS on page 12 either.
and fuzzy continues to do pianful things in #282 and 284... what a complete flip flop.
shadow in 286 is also more meh
Blah blah blah between tony/shadow on page 13.
dislike Falcones #327
Muerrto discussed his vote in 333 and in 334 we see tajo revote him...
Tony and Falcone take a different stance in 338/339
353 by tajo strikes me as way odd.
lotsa fluff for D1 on 15

[competentpsycho]

Still very dangerous to stick your neck out that far for someone when you're not sposed to know whether they're scum or not.

I always play kind of overeagerly. Sorry if that makes you think I may be scum but eventually every game someone is going to suspect you. I just rather that I would have drudged up information leading to the lynch of scum if I do get lynched than sitting back just to survive not helping at all. Sorta goes along with the whole "lynch for information" thing. I win if the town wins even if I am dead. Therefore the more information I can make available the better off we will be. Surviving is pointless if you are just a slave to the suggestions of the scum. Which is why I hate lurkers.

Speaking of which,

MOD: did Ergo respond to his last prod and not post or just ignore it completely?

He responded to his very first prod by PM, but he has not picked up his most recent post.

Who is your top choice?

Hasn't changed - still Muerrto ATM. Grimmy has moved down. Falcone and tajo are tied just behind Grimmy now. But it is D1 and we have no previous information to go off of, so this whole lineup will probably change depending on the circumstances of the lynch and what happens during the night.

[ShadowGirl]

I think Falcone may have dissapeared. x_x

CP: What do you think of Tony? Who has dissapeared just a tad, once again...

[Muerrto]

I always play kind of overeagerly. Sorry if that makes you think I may be scum but eventually every game someone is going to suspect you. I just rather that I would have drudged up information leading to the lynch of scum if I do get lynched than sitting back just to survive not helping at all.

Lol you've read my posts, right? I agree completely about being agressive, not sitting back, etc. but it's the fact your constant defense of someone you just put third on your scum list that is definitely strange.

[competentpsycho]

Yeah - notice I never say he is town, or even for that matter that I agree with him about much of anything - just pick at shitty arguments against him. As you touched on before, I am not so much defending his actions as looking at arguments against him suspiciously, and with good reason. Often my aggressive play earns me a fairly popular wagon (surprised it hasn't here), and many people see my attacks on shitty arguments as simply OMGUS, just because I concentrate on the people attacking me. Here is proof that it isn't OMGUS, in case I attack my attackers' cases later this game - don't dismiss it as such without reading my posts first.

I don't really mind getting attention, it usually helps me find scum better when the conversation doesn't slow to a crawl. Popular wagons almost always have scum on them, whether its the person being suspected or one of the people attacking them. I usually look at the people doing the attacking if the case isn't very strong. It's D1, so the case isn't strong but that's about all we have to go on. Hence he is on my list, but I am still suspecting the attackers. I can't really trust anyone right now, but I am not going to sit back and do nothing just because I suspect people on both sides. Yes he is third on my list, it just happens that much of the reasoning being put forth is against him, therefore much of the shitty reasoning is against him.

@shadow - tony has recently been active lurking. He didn't disappear, he posted yesterday. He hasn't posted content really since I came into the game. I want to do a reread on him sometime in the near future, but I don't have time right now. I will have a better answer then, along with a few other people that have stopped posting much. As for right now I would say neutral leaning pretty good to the scum side, but that is premature until I get a reread in. I'll get a good list together after my reread of the order of precedence if you would like.

[Battousai]

Is falcone getting prodded? If not,

Mod: could you prod Falcone

I do find it interesting that Tony just seems to disappear for a bit when he and sometimes Tajo aren't being put on the chopping block.

[ShadowGirl]

@CP: Well, I meant other then that post saying he was going on V/LA. And yes, a list would be nice.

@Batt: My thoughts exactly. :/
I hope nothing bad has happened to Falcone.

And I shall do a mini reread of the past few pages to catch myself up.

[TonyMontana]

I do find it interesting that Tony just seems to disappear for a bit when he and sometimes Tajo aren't being put on the chopping block.

I do find this accusation to be without merit.

[competentpsycho]

Ok, did a quick reread of Tony's posts only from this game. A couple things come to mind.

I am 99.99% sure Tony and tajo are not both scum. Tony pretty much says what I am thinking in 351.

The other possibility is that Tony is scum and tajo isn't. I didn't see anything in Tony's posts that made me think he was scum, and coming out and saying that it matched his win condition word for word wouldn't just be risky for scum, as tajo never said that was verbatim from his, but would be suicide. I don't see Tony being scum at this point. The only thing I don't like about Tony is that he doesn't post much, but there are more than a couple people that are worse at that than him. My verdict: Tony is most likely town.

I also think it would be way too risky Day 1 for someone to mention a win condition, though the way tajo worded it he could have backed out of it later since he didn't actually say that was his exact win condition. That and the fact he didn't get modkilled when this:

11.) Do not quote or fakequote your role PM. This is a modkillable offence.

was in the rules makes him suspicious. This is the rule that usually prevents town from comparing PMs and thus winning by using game mechanics rather than playing the game. I don't know why I didn't think to check for that before. That makes me think that it possibly wasn't what his PM said. It could also be that since he didn't say that was verbatim what his PM said, he was safe. Either way tajo has moved ahead of Falcone in my list and is now tied with Grimmy (for second). Would it not be for the fact that the act of trying to guess the town win condition at that point in the game would be insane and the fact that Tony had the same thing when I feel he is town, tajo would have my vote.

A side note, I have a new theory about the whole tajo claiming fairly early in his bandwagon situation. I will keep it to myself for now, since if I am right it may help to find scum if I don't tell.

[TonyMontana]

Regarding the quote rule, I was kinda weary of that at first too. It's up to the discretion of the Mod to decide what counts as violation of that rule, and I think after the whole debacle about the win condition, skitzer's chose to point out that not all win conditions are the same, and leave it at that.

Tajo didn't actually quote it, but it's a fine line. Modkills shouldn't come easy, tho, and the whole incident has stirred up alot of discussion...

[populartajo]

Competent, my win condition is definitely the same in my PM.
I didnt quote my PM. I simply posted my exact win condition. I dont think this is a modkillable offence. Something simliar, IIRC, happened in Mushroom Kingdom Mafia where we semiconfirmed some townies after a Toad (vanilla townie) also posted his win condition. The Mod also forgot to add a sample PM in the front page.
I think something similar, without intention of my part, happened here. My theory is that skitzer thought it wasnt a modkillable offence but there could be the possibility of breaking the game for town so he added the "there may be more that one win condition" and the "not every player has the same condition" notes in his vote counts.
And Im 99.99% sure Tony has the same win condition. The only possible scenario where Tony is scum is he making an incredible gambit to guess that that was my win condition, word by word. So he definitely has the same win condition in his PM. That explains his strange unvote when I was the easiest target for scum in a potential wagon.