Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

[Nordom]

Ircher's whole play-by-play just smells of opportunistic scum to me. (Post 119) "This is a pretty convincing case actually" "This implies to me yadda yadda yadda". "Nordom asked me blah blah blah". I wish I remembered how to quote and single out player posts lol. (If somebody could hand-hold me and tell me, I would love them forever)

Roden ignored my post when I talked about their "fused role comment whatever" and ignored pretty much all my comments from then on. But their "don't elim me" comment gave me a bit of pause. Is this a player who would appeal to emotion so early on at page 4-5 or whatever?

[Nordom]

UNVOTE: Roden

VOTE: Ircher

I don't mind that either, but I don't want to switch before I'm satisfied with the answer. I do not want to go round and round in circles all day, so I'm taking things one case at a time.

You think I trust you, Monkey? You think you going to try to pocket me here?

[Nordom]

UNVOTE: Ircher

VOTE: Almost50

Read Almost's post 122 and decide if that was a genuine town post.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Radical Rat

Serious vote. RR

was online

at the time this thread was open (check my post #9. They didn't bother dropping by to say hi even and now they're gone. I don't like that and have a feeling they are scum who checked in in the scum PT and decided to avoid the main thread.

If I want to stretch it I'd suggest Ircher has rolled scum once more The early massclaim only serves to give the scum ideas about what to fake claim.

Knowing who's madding the game I can't tell if there's a standard 10-3 distribution or not. Anything is possible with Meg, so I'll just leave it at that

Still reading, but just want to make it clear that I was NOT online at the time you posted that. I have no idea why the site said I was, but I promise I wasn't.

[Roden]

Ircher's whole play-by-play just smells of opportunistic scum to me. (Post 119) "This is a pretty convincing case actually" "This implies to me yadda yadda yadda". "Nordom asked me blah blah blah". I wish I remembered how to quote and single out player posts lol. (If somebody could hand-hold me and tell me, I would love them forever)

Roden ignored my post when I talked about their "fused role comment whatever" and ignored pretty much all my comments from then on. But their "don't elim me" comment gave me a bit of pause. Is this a player who would appeal to emotion so early on at page 4-5 or whatever?

Where did I ignore your post or comments?

[Ircher]

A50 literally just asked me a question. He's definitely around.

Unless you can prove he was around for 100% of the time between when he made his initial case and when you made the post I referenced, this isn't a counterargument.

[Ircher]

To make it clearer: my point was and still is that people do not respond instantaneously and expecting such a response in only an hour's time is unreasonable.

[Radical Rat]

A50 Town, Roden Scum, Ircher... Not sure, leaning Town.

Everyone else null

[Roden]

A50 literally just asked me a question. He's definitely around.

Unless you can prove he was around for 100% of the time between when he made his initial case and when you made the post I referenced, this isn't a counterargument.

Ircher...A50 is still posting...dear god...

[Radical Rat]

We should probably NOT massclaim our submissions.

Scum already know somewhere between 3-6 of the possible "material" roles, but I'd rather them not know the rest. Also since our submissions are still tied to our final role, if anyone submitted a particularly strong/useful PR, they'd be forced to out themselves

[Roden]

A50 literally just asked me a question. He's definitely around.

I'm on and off, yes (but I will be off after this post). I laid a case, people decided I am likely correct. You made your defense. People are entitled to decide whether they are convinced/satisfied. It's not like I am a 7x voter. I also made cases on both RR and Ircher. If you are town you should be more concerned about analyzing your wagon and deciding who is more likely to be scum sheeping town on town. I am not 100% in you (or anyone else this early) but I think I got something. If I misunderstood your words then try to explain them better.. not to me but to all of us who think that was s cum slip that you are now trying to remedy.

Let me direct you to where the problem started even before that "slip":

Are you a fusion of Miller and Godfather?

I may be, I don't know what I am a fusion of.

This is a lie but that's fine because you're probably town.

Uh, my role PM did not tell me what my pick was fused with. Yours did?

It's in my role name and ability description. The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with.

VOTE: Roden

that's one bad slip, my friend. ONLY SCUM know what their pick has been fused with.

You asked Nathann if their role was a result of a fusion between Miller and GF. They said they didn't know what the "other" role their pick was fused with is. You then both called them a liar and declared them town. Then you said "The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with."

My problemS: Nathann had already claimed their role. If you thought you can "deduce" the other role from the description you should have been able to do it yourself (to Nathann's role). You did come up with a suggestion even. BUT.. you called him a liar and asserted the Role PM made it clear. Mine doesn't and obviously many others agree theirs don't. So I took it that you were referring to the explicit mention of the other pick which only appears on Scum Role PMs and not the Town's. Furthermore; you declared Nathann a townie for no good reason UNLESS you knew it. Why does a Miller claim make Nathann town? And why did you accuse them of lying? And -if true- why is a townie lying about that specific detail?

Let me reiterate: If you came up with a guess and that's what you meant then why even expect Nathann to know better? Why are you calling them a liar? They described their role and said they didn't know because it wasn't mentioned in their role PM. It thus implies you in fact meant the explicit mention of it and wanted them to confirm the "Godfather" part. Problem is such confirmation only existed in the Scum Role PM. If that's not what you meant then you couldn't have called Nathann a liar to begin with. The why you called them town bit is a bonus.

Now if you're town please don't be impulsive. Please reread this post once more and try to comprehend each word. Once you've fully digested my train of thought then (and only then) please try to respond to my points one by one so that I may also try to see it from your PoV. If you're scum though I couldn't care less what you do or how you respond because my job is to catch scum (i.e. nothing personal).

Ability descriptions matter because they literally tell you your fusion.

Here we go again. They literally don't. You have to guess it. You yourself said you used keywords and searched the wiki which doesn't exactly sound like "literally telling you your fusion". If it literally did then why the hell would you need keywords and search?

Over.. and out for now

I'm not exaggerating when I say that this is probably the scummiest post I've ever seen you make.

You're not "casing" anyone, you're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. I gave you a rebuttal, and you ignored it and lurked while everyone else took turns pretending that the mod gave them cryptic role PMs that can't be deciphered. My "analysis" of my wagon is that you're scum who's trying to backpedal after getting caught making a shit push.

Nathann is lying because he's claiming to invest/flip as town/scum, but somehow does not know if he's a Miller/Godfather fusion or what the other half of his fusion is at all. Literally no other role would cause that effect but he's apparently completely clueless about it. This isn't a 200 IQ deduction. I think he's town because the lie likely comes from a town mind set.

There is no guessing for the ability fusions. There are only so many options it could be, and most roles are distinct enough that it's reasonable that everyone should be able to deduce the other half of their role. If you can't, then scour the wiki. However I'm pretty sure almost everyone here has plenty of experience with mafia, so no one should be seriously struggling to understand their roles.

[Galron]

The same two picks combining on two players may have different abilities, regardless of either's alignment. Players with different picks than each other combining into their respective roles may have the same abilities, regardless of alignment.

Can someone explain this to me? This is my first fusion game, and while I get why Roden is getting scumread due to the sample role PMs, I don't understand how fusion games are supposed to work I guess. I'm happy to vote Roden because it looks like a prima facie scumslip. But before I do that if someone could either distill the mechanics of a fusion game or point me to a resource, I'd appreciate it.

[Galron]

And ftr I have some empathy for Roden because he gets scumread in every game and has to fight that until he's limmed or NK'd or whatever. I have the same problem. I've either been getting NK'd Night 1 or assuming a role of bad town who lingers until I get mizzed later on. yeah, that's AtE but it's just getting annoying. The past few weeks I've just kind of given up and had fun, but I'm afraid I'm costing town games because of my play.

[Enchant]

The same two picks combining on two players may have different abilities, regardless of either's alignment. Players with different picks than each other combining into their respective roles may have the same abilities, regardless of alignment.

Can someone explain this to me? This is my first fusion game, and while I get why Roden is getting scumread due to the sample role PMs, I don't understand how fusion games are supposed to work I guess. I'm happy to vote Roden because it looks like a prima facie scumslip. But before I do that if someone could either distill the mechanics of a fusion game or point me to a resource, I'd appreciate it.

It means if someone submitted MILLER and someone else submitted MILLER, then there's chance these roles can fuse with each other (there's instruction how it works), and result will still change, like you not getting pure Miller.

Mad science.

[Galron]

Hmm. Okay. I guess I'll learn by example.

[Galron]

I didn't realize you were here enchant. You run into this being scumread problem early on too I think.

[Enchant]

I didn't realize you were here enchant. You run into this being scumread problem early on too I think.

It's not scumread problem, i am just poor with defence.

Either way, Almost50 scumread is undeserved, i see it as town who believed in scumslip. In particular, i would vote Roden too for that.

[Enchant]

Are you a fusion of Miller and Godfather?

I may be, I don't know what I am a fusion of.

This is a lie but that's fine because you're probably town.

Uh, my role PM did not tell me what my pick was fused with. Yours did?

It's in my role name and ability description. The sample Role PMs also make it clear what they've been fused with.

Very unclear wording, but no, that's not scumslip.

Like, if you SUDDENLY receive Rolecop ability, then you know.... That uh... You fused with Rolecop.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: Rosen

Feeling town on a50 and Nathan

You wanna to elaborate on these fee-fees?

Also, Nathan. I'm going to assume for the moment that your vote on me was a "gut-read" or something, but could you explain your vote on me a bit?

I liked A50's gamesolving energy.

Nathan is mostly a gutread. His posts felt genuine.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think A50 just outed himself tbh.

VOTE: Almost50

Outed himself how?

As scum. He's trying to push a fast mis-elim and is ignoring anything that goes against his case.

He's only made 3 posts pushing you at this point. What makes him scum over other people on your wagon like me or Toog?

What town role can directly kill people?

What role is naturally Reflexive?

I don't think PGO is that obvious? It's reflexive

and

kills people, but the latter effect is missing.

By the same logic, the sample role PM could've easily been fused with reflexive cop, reflexive doctor, etc.

[Enchant]

He asked "NATURALLY" Reflexive.

Cops and Doctors are not Naturally Reflexive.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

The word "natural" isn't important imo.

The point is you don't know what you've fused with. Like for my role, I can narrow it down to a modifier or a couple of different roles but it's not clear cut.

[Enchant]

Lucky you...

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I also think massclaiming is a bad idea. I don't think it'll actually provide that much info to town. Not sure if Ircher is scummy for proposing it though

[Roden]

I think A50 just outed himself tbh.

VOTE: Almost50

Outed himself how?

As scum. He's trying to push a fast mis-elim and is ignoring anything that goes against his case.

He's only made 3 posts pushing you at this point. What makes him scum over other people on your wagon like me or Toog?

What town role can directly kill people?

What role is naturally Reflexive?

I don't think PGO is that obvious? It's reflexive

and

kills people, but the latter effect is missing.

By the same logic, the sample role PM could've easily been fused with reflexive cop, reflexive doctor, etc.

I made several posts explaining why I think A50 is scum. I don't have a strong reason to scum read you or Toog.

The kill effect from PGO is missing because it's a role fusion set up and not everyone can have a gun AKA game balance is a thing. The sample role PM couldn't have been fused with Reflexive [Role] because it made a point to show individual role submissions can't be [Modifier] + [Role]. Otherwise what stops people from submitting something like Disloyal Day Vig?

The word "natural" isn't important imo.

The point is you don't know what you've fused with. Like for my role, I can narrow it down to a modifier or a couple of different roles but it's not clear cut.

Yes, the word "natural" is important. If you just discount everything I say that supports my argument then what is even the point of engaging with you?

You absolutely should know what you're fused with. Unless your role name is nonsense and your ability requires a cypher to read, I don't see how that's possible, especially when the set up says you can ask the mod for clarification on what your role does.