Mini 686 - Chess Mafia (Done)

[Doomsday]

Move: Bd3

Vote: Gorrad

Part OMGUS vote
Part the fact you suggested lynching in the first place.

[Pesco47]

Move Qe2+
Vote Gorrad

Qe2 pins whatever black moves into the way when we follow up with Nd5. Black taking the pawn in response was fairly predictable, that should give us an indication of who is scum by the level of their moves.

I find Gorrad's lack of reason for voting to be scummy, I asked why you were voting yesterday. Now this 'We can't win without our queen' line strikes me as a move to undermine our play. The only people that can't win a game of chess without the queen are newbs.

A point I realised yesterday too, scum would speedmove to prevent a lynch. If we going to attempt a lynch, I think we need to unmove if a serious case starts forming.

[Pesco47]

EBWOP: The best thing about Qe2+ is that black can't do anything to counter our next move.

[Indigo Heron]

O.o Too right, Pesco. Only either people who seek to undermine White from within would say something like that, or are newbies. In chess, everything is expandable for the win (or draw), except your King.

Yes, I understand that, Pesco, about your Qe2, but perhaps it would be better off if we took the slower and steadier alternative to Qe2, which is either Bc4 or Bd3. Bc4 and Bd3, for example, initiates a kingside attack.

Currently, I favour Bd3, but I will rethink Qe2 and see where that will lead us to.

@Gorrad's suspicious activity: If this was a normal game, I'd have thought that Gorrad was a newbie. Unfortunately, this is a chess-themed mafia game, full of people who are adept at chess, and what more, people who have passed our able and judicious moderator's vetting, so yes, it really does seem like a not-so-subtle and not-well-thought-out attempt to undermine us. I still urge everyone to be patient with this, as us trying to lynch one of them means that they can assassinate one of us, not to mention that in a game like this, we can't afford to be careless. In the meantime,

FoS: Gorrad

[Goatrevolt]

I think our only real options here are Bc4 and Bd3. We have a fairly strong positional advantage right now and we should capitalize on it. Moving out the bishop:

1. Puts pressure on black's weak kingside
2. Opens us up for castling (also putting pressure on black's weak king)

Qe2 is bad. It blocks in our mobile bishop in and loses us tempo because black can easily develop and protect the king. We lose out in development (trapping the bishop), tempo (black develops at the cost of a move to us), and our positional advantage.

Bd3 seems solid, but d6 is a decent black response that both fights for control of the center and protects the f pawn. We also trap in our own d pawn, which could serve as problematic down the line.

Thus I think our best play is

Move Bc4

to put pressure on the weak black kingside and prepare for additional pressure with O-O.

Rather than check the black king with Qe2, I'd rather prepare for Re1, which is a stronger play.

As for Gorrad, I'd have to review his posts to see where people are coming from, but I don't see any benefit towards lynching people right now. I consider white to have the board advantage in this game. Lynching shouldn't even be on the table. Giving black a NK to kill off good players is a bad plan.

[Pesco47]

A bishop pin is too slow. The open column gives initiative to whoever calls check first. If black does, we'll be a move behind because we spend a move running instead of developing. I intend to follow with Nd5 next turn for more attacking power. Depending on what their response to that is, we bring the fN into the attack too or bring out the cB to open up 0-0-0.

[Goatrevolt]

Qe2 pins whatever black moves into the way when we follow up with Nd5. Black taking the pawn in response was fairly predictable, that should give us an indication of who is scum by the level of their moves

Hm...actually Qe2->Nd5 doesn't sound too bad. I'll have to reconsider that.

Black really doesn't have any solutions for getting rid of that knight at d5. Then again, by trapping in our bishop, we don't have a whole lot of options for putting on additional pressure either...

I still think Bc4 is probably best, because we can always still do Qe2 (or Re1 depending on how things go) and follow with Nd5 later on, but we get our bishop out first.

[Goatrevolt]

A bishop pin is too slow. The open column gives initiative to whoever calls check first. If black does, we'll be a move behind because we spend a move running instead of developing. I intend to follow with Nd5 next turn for more attacking power. Depending on what their response to that is, we bring the fN into the attack too or bring out the cB to open up 0-0-0.

I think we have some good responses to Qe7 if black decides to do that. That play doesn't really worry me much.

Unmove

I'm going to give Qe2 more consideration.

[SensFan]

Qe2 pins whatever black moves into the way when we follow up with Nd5. Black taking the pawn in response was fairly predictable, that should give us an indication of who is scum by the level of their moves

Hm...actually Qe2->Nd5 doesn't sound too bad. I'll have to reconsider that.

Black really doesn't have any solutions for getting rid of that knight at d5. Then again, by trapping in our bishop, we don't have a whole lot of options for putting on additional pressure either...

I still think Bc4 is probably best, because we can always still do Qe2 (or Re1 depending on how things go) and follow with Nd5 later on, but we get our bishop out first.

If they trade Queens, then we don't need to worry about out Bishop being stuck. If they place a Bishop there, I don't think Qe3 is too much to play at some point, for the sake on keeping their Bishop unpinned abd liberating ours.

[Pesco47]

In the event of black answering Qe2+ with Qe7, a trade on our side of the board is far more favourable.

Bb5 is a horrible move. The knight is protected by 2 pawns, and a response of a6 costs us a move. That's also assuming black doesn't one-up us by calling check too.

[Lawrencelot]

I like Qe2, followed up by Nd5. We keep the advantage whatever black does.

Move: Qe2.

I'm also willing to move our bishop, but there's no need to do that right now if we can attack the king.

[Pesco47]

Lulz. I thought someone suggested Bb5. Now we all have 1 less move to consider.

[Indigo Heron]

I've been doing some thinking about Qe2, and I still stand by my disagreement to the move. The game played out in my head agree to my initial prediction of the move.

I would like to reiterate all of Goatrevolts points about Qe2, including my own, so just refer back to the posts that were made (posts #113 and #129).

[Pesco47]

I did a bit of thinking too. Bc4 I'll agree to with majority consensus. It's got more depth than Qe2+, though I still wouldn't want to castle to a side with openings. I'll need to see it on a physical board to plan out.

Bd3 however, is going to get owned by Nb4. The results there should be obvious.

[Gorrad]

You can win without your queen, but I seriously dislike doing so. Moving the bishop is going to be best here.

[sirdanilot]

vote: Bc4

Moving the queen to e2 (why is that written as Qe2+ ? What does the plus mean?) blocks our bishop so we're better off moving the bishop first, then we can consider the queen move.

Oh, just realized I'm parroting goatrevolt here. Anyway, Bc4 is the best move right now so we should do it I guess. White's doing rather well so far, in my opinion.

[SensFan]

vote: Bc4

Moving the queen to e2 (why is that written as Qe2+ ? What does the plus mean?) blocks our bishop so we're better off moving the bishop first, then we can consider the queen move.

Oh, just realized I'm parroting goatrevolt here. Anyway, Bc4 is the best move right now so we should do it I guess. White's doing rather well so far, in my opinion.

Plus symbolizes Check.

And answer me this about your issues with "blocking the Bishop".
*If 6. Qe2+ Qe7 7. Qxe7+ Bxe7, our Bishop is unblocked.
*If 6. Qe2+ Be7 7. Qe3, our Bishop is unblocked, and their is pinned.
What is wrong with either scenario? Those are literally the only answers to Qe2+.

[Indigo Heron]

@Pesco: If you do that, I'll just take the f5 pawn via Bxf5.

@sirdanilot: The '+' symbol means check.

In my head, whether it's Bd3 or Bc4, it won't really matter, since it will progress down the same road, and I wouldn't worry about the blocked d-pawn, either, since in about 3 or 4 moves, we'll move the bishop at d3 to b5.

Move: Bc4

[Indigo Heron]

@SensFan (Sorry, I was typing out my post, didn't saw yours): Unfortunately, I don't think that even Black will be as idiotic as to play 6. ...Qe7. Refer back to one of my previous posts (#113, I think).

If we DO end up pinning the bishop, which is what most probably will happen if we play Qe2, and we move Qe3, we waste tempo freeing up our lines, and Black will attempt to control the centre via d5, or move via Nb4, or Nf6 (I would've played d5 if I was Black). By then, Black is much more developed than White, and now White's Queen is in danger of attack.

[SensFan]

@SensFan (Sorry, I was typing out my post, didn't saw yours): Unfortunately, I don't think that even Black will be as idiotic as to play 6. ...Qe7. Refer back to one of my previous posts (#113, I think).

Really? I think that Black's best answer to 6. Qe2+ is 6. ...Qe7, which leads to 7. Qxe7+ Bxe7. Black would be idiotic to let us pin their Bishop imo.

[Lawrencelot]

I thought it would be good to attack with our knight after moving Qe2, but they still have 2 other pieces to defend their e7 spot, so never mind.

Unmove; move Bc4

[SensFan]

Compare the following positions, which are probably the 2 most likely lines if we play 6.Qe2+
*chess tag removed*
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Qe7
7. Qxe7 Bxe7
8. Bb5
*/chess tag removed*
*chess tag removed*
1. e4 c5
2. Nc3 Nc6
3. f4 e6
4. Nf3 f5
5. exf5 exf5
6. Qe2 Be7
7. Qe3
*/chess tag removed*
Black to move in either case. Can you really even argue that either position favours Black?

[SensFan]

That should 8. Bc4 in the first board.

[Indigo Heron]

Really? I think that Black's best answer to 6. Qe2+ is 6. ...Qe7, which leads to 7. Qxe7+ Bxe7. Black would be idiotic to let us pin their Bishop imo.

EH...thanks to you, I saw another route for White to take. If Black plays Qe7, White plays Nb5 (not take their Queen), which could be dangerous for Black. However, Black could simply play Kd8...so once again, I'm still got my mind made up on this one.

Now, back to the question at hand...

Scenario 1 is slightly better for Black. Black has a good chance of equalising the game, thanks to our suicidal queen. It has brought Black's bishop out, leading to better freedom of movement compared to White, which still needs to castle (what I'd do) to attack.

Scenario 2 is no good for White. Black has an even better chance of equalising, since White has lost tempo to regain freedom of movement for its pawn.

[Indigo Heron]

EBWOP: I mean bishop, not pawn.