Mafia 87 - New Age Mafia - Game Over!

[Der Hammer]

Yes, completely sarcastic. The original comment I made was completely sincere, and mere commentary on the start of the game since I was in a rush, and just wanted to post my first post of the game before people accused me of lurking. I reacted badly to your initial misjudging of my statement and acted childishly. It end of esuclated from there really, and its interesting to see who has jumped on my bandwagon..

So at what point were you not being sarcastic anymore? Were these legit posts or just more childish acting?

I'm not linked with Sheh in anyway, just a lowly vanilla. Look elsewhere good sirs and madams.

There is nothing behind it. He's deluded. Clear scumtells

There's a few things I want to say about Scheherazade, but that's going to take a while. To be honest, I've only skimmed through his last few posts, so I want to make sure it's not things that have been already addressed.

Those two quoted were pretty much childish sarasm, mixed with half-truths. I was reacting to some pretty embarassing "amazing" analysis from a couple of people who jumped on my initial comment with rapid quickness.

So you are saying that you are town who has had a bad day. Therefore we should lynch Sche, completely forgive everything you have said during Day 1 and accept you as town after the lynch and concentrate on who targetted you?
)

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Glad someone agrees with me.

[Jazzmyn]

It was not intended for that to lead to more setup discussion. I had just not worded it properly and the question was misinterpretted.

Fair enough.

Regards,
Jazz

[Juls]

Unvote: Vote Derhammer

I do NOT agree with you.

[al4xz]

Don't give bullshit. Even though this is internet, I can obviously discern the disgust in Juls tone of voice of said quote. If you can't, I don't trust a single action you make any more, unless it's something you can't screw up.

Vote: Derhammer

[al4xz]

EBWOP or whatever the hell the abrievation is, I can never remember it:

Unvote, Vote Derhammer

[iamausername]

good start with the goon being killed.

My new #2 scum suspect. Sheh + Der = scumpair.

Hmm, thats exactly the sort of reaction I was probing for.

Your my new #4 scum suspect.

Der Hammer, was the bolded sentence in this post serious or not?

I'd much rather No Lynch than Quick-And-Thoughtless lynch.

I wouldn't. I mean, Careful Well Thought Out Lynch would obviously be the optimum, but Quick And Thoughtless Lynch beats No Lynch for sure.

[Der Hammer]

good start with the goon being killed.

My new #2 scum suspect. Sheh + Der = scumpair.

Hmm, thats exactly the sort of reaction I was probing for.

Your my new #4 scum suspect.

Der Hammer, was the bolded sentence in this post serious or not?

No

[Caboose]

That's not ad hominem.

Yes it is.

It was a statement of fact borne out by what transpired.

I don't care what it was borne out of, it's still ad hom. You're arguing that Percy is not worth arguing with because of the sort of person he is. That's an ad hom attack.

You pretty much are proving Jazzmyn's point here. Instead of just coming out and saying, "OK, it's ad hom, I shouldn't have used that" you sit and insist that it's not ad hom when it most definitely is.

Lastly, the "anti-town factions" I referred to in my opening post were the serial killer and possible sub-divisions of the mafia element. You're right, I never talked about an anti-town doctor and I'm not sure why you are now.

Yes, you did talk about it in this post:

So, if you think it's role-fishing to speculate about the setup of the anti-town factions and to point out that there might be an

anti-town doctor

, then I guess I deserve your vote.

You never made mention of an anti-town doc early in the game and in this post, you try to make it out like you were. That's just misleading.

Vote: Scheherazade

That being said, I think my wagon is too good to pass up for the mafia, so I doubt it was a complete waste.

So now you're trying to make yourself a martyr?

Mod: Please probe the following (the inactivity is annoying and we have a deadline approaching)

Caboose - No Posts since Wednesday
DerHammer - No posts since Tuesday
Jazzmyn - No posts since Wednesday
TAX - No posts since Monday
BobHiggs - I think you are replacing?

Thank you.

*Slowly backs away from the mod and Juls.*

[Tom Mason]

Okay, tried my best to catch up to speed. I admit, I started that whole post-war between Sche and Percy but gave up. From the posts by those who have been playing longer than an hour, it seems I missed very little. If I need to at some point for the record, I will go back to look.

That being said, I think my wagon is too good to pass up for the mafia, so I doubt it was a complete waste.

So now you're trying to make yourself a martyr?

Not to speak for Sche, but I see his point. If he is town and enough other players are convinced to lynch him, the mafia would relish the opportunity to stand by them. I think it is obvious, it is what happens when the town make a glaring mistake that can be capitalized upon.

I do not think it is about being a martyr at all -- at least not by choice.

Where do I stand? I am looking at Der Hammer right now. When I read his early posts in the phase citing people on his suspicion list, it did not sit well with me. Most of the posts he made were to say "Hey, you are on my list too." How many people do you want to put on this list of yours without any substance?

I still have some more thought to put into everything, but right now that is where my gut tells me to place my vote. I think DH is at L-4 right now?

[Juls]

I think DH is at L-4 right now?

Both Derhammer and Sche are at L-3 from my countl

[Jazzmyn]

Yes, by my count too, it looks like 6 votes for each of Sche and DerHammer, with Vi, Sche, Tom, and Tax not presently voting.

Regards,
Jazz

[Tom Mason]

I think DH is at L-4 right now?

Both Derhammer and Sche are at L-3 from my countl

Sorry, I got mixed with my other game and was thinking 10 votes needed, not 9.

Interesting to see no vote from Sche on DH. I thought he voted for him, but must have just been an FoS. That or I am pretending to see things that do not exist.

[Vi]

Awesome, a choice between useless and more useless. I don't have enough information on Der Hammer to be convinced he is scum, but at the rate he's going all he's going to do is drag us down. I am more willing to say that Scheherazade is Town and bad at arguing than to say that Der Hammer is a contributory Townie.

I'm still waiting for Scheherazade to actually vote, scumhunt, etc. like everyone wants him to, but the minimal amount he has done up to this point is enough to put him ahead of Der Hammer.

Unvote: al4xz
Vote: Der Hammer

(L-2)

Interesting to see no vote from Sche on DH. I thought he voted for him, but must have just been an FoS. That or I am pretending to see things that do not exist.

'Vivid imagination you've got there
Scheherazade isn't voting for anyone, which is P.ing several people O.

[al4xz]

Personally speaking, this will provide us more information, and we don't need a village idiot dragging us down later on in the game (wasting a lynch now to gain some info is alright, wasting a lynch later can be disastorous). Hey, I just realzied something:

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

[Vi]

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

Suffice to say I've already tried to daykill one person for that (elsewhere; don't want to link because it's an ongoing game). Would you like to be next? ^.^

[al4xz]

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

Suffice to say I've already tried to daykill one person for that (elsewhere; don't want to link because it's an ongoing game). Would you like to be next? ^.^

*cowers at the printer*

[Scheherazade]

@Caboose: No, I used my assessment of him to explain my decision to avoid wasting town time. He made his case, I'd pointed to what I thought were the flaws, he didn't address my concern... Repeating would be wasteful, was wasteful, is wasteful.

I made a mistake and missed the post to which you were referring. I said "anti-town doctors" to mean "insane/CPR doctors." I thought my meaning was clear. If you feel that I mistyped, say so, don't blow it out of proportion. That's scummy.

Tom Mason has already made my reply to your "martyr" charge. I don't know what made you think it was anything like that.

@Vi: Why has my not casting a vote upset you?

I thought it's been pretty clear who I've suspected over the course of the game. I asked questions when I needed to. Some have been answered and some haven't. I think Jazzmyn's pretty scummy and I stand behind that. I've suspected Der Hammer's play, which seems wilfully unproductive. I suspected al4xz and ribwich, but al4xz's responses made me reconsider and my reread of ribwich changed my mind.

Why do you want me to go ahead and vote? To hurry the lynch? To give you something to read? What is it?

[ribwich]

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Glad someone agrees with me.

Comments like this make me wonder if you're even trying at this game. You're either horrible at detecting sarcasm, or you're actually encouraging anti-town behavior. My vote on you is staying.

Village idiot: Abbreviation: Vi! o.O

Somebody clearly didn't read Vi's wiki page.

[Vi]

@Vi: Why has my not casting a vote upset you?

I thought it's been pretty clear who I've suspected over the course of the game. I asked questions when I needed to. Some have been answered and some haven't. I think Jazzmyn's pretty scummy and I stand behind that. I've suspected Der Hammer's play, which seems wilfully unproductive. I suspected al4xz and ribwich, but al4xz's responses made me reconsider and my reread of ribwich changed my mind.

Why do you want me to go ahead and vote? To hurry the lynch? To give you something to read? What is it?

No, it hasn't been clear, because almost all of your posts have been defensive. Posts 15 and 21 are the only ones where you've actually acted on your own suspicions and asked questions. And you've only barely mentioned Der Hammer once before now, in passing.

Your sarcastic questions at the end make me want to post SHUT UP in really large letters. I'll give you reasons. You think Jazzmyn's scummy? Really? I don't believe it, because you're not

VOTING

to stake your bloody

REPUTATION

on it. Clearly you don't

really

believe Jazzmyn is scummy or even the best choice IYO for a lynch, because you're not willing to put her one - single - step

out of 9

to the noose.

Take a stand in what you believe in,

instead of wallflowering until it's convenient to vote.

Incidentally, Jazzmyn made a decent-sized post since you last expressed suspicion of her. 'Thoughts on it?

(Jeesh, forbiddanlight is rubbing off on me.)

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count #8 of Day 1

Der Hammer (7) -- iamausername, ZazieR, ribwich, strife220, Juls, al4xz, Vi
Scheherazade (6) -- Gerrendus, Percy, Jazzmyn, DoomCow, Der Hammer, Caboose

Not Voting (3) -- Scheherazade, Tom Mason, TAX

With 16 alive, it takes 9 votes to lynch!

[Jazzmyn]

Awesome, a choice between useless and more useless.

Sadly, I cannot disagree with that.

Where we

may

disagree is about which one is more useless, and it is entirely possible that I am allowing my disdain for Sche's rude, obnoxious, condescending play style to cloud my judgement in this regard. Yet, I still get more of a scum-vibe from Sche than I do from DerHammer, so I feel compelled to leave my vote where it is at present.

Regards,
Jazz

[al4xz]

Alright, back to serious gaming. I guess it's pretty much decided that we will lynch either DerHammer or Scheh, right? So I guess we might as well do a reread, then decide between the two, unless some magical fairy pops up and saves their ass.

From my point of view, Scheh is coming up to be a defensive lurker. He posts only when attacked and doesn't really express his views or attempt to scumhunt, OR even attack someone. This makes me think he's either
A) scared Mafia
B) asshole townie
C) a survivor
Now that I have expressed this view, I actually think... we should lynch him.

Unvote, Vote: Scheh

Derhammer comes across to me as a village idiot, so we can either A) lynch him now for information, or B) talk shit later on in the game going, "Oh! But what if DH is scum?" Personally, I'd rather kill him now but a Scheh lynch is too compelling.

[Scheherazade]

@Vi: First off, they were honest questions. You're giving me a lot of orders, I want to know all of your thinking.

Regarding Jazzmyn, it would be nice if she'd answered my questions directly. She only really helped answer one.

Regarding Percy, it is possible that he was rabble rousing against Sche but I happen to agree with him about Sche
and I think he made several valid points, so I cannot interpret this as scummy. I am not, however, enamoured
of his playing the newbie card in a couple of his posts.

@Jazzmyn: You think that because someone presents a valid argument then it's safe to ignore suspicions about his motives and execution? You don't have to be town in order to say something true.

Regarding DerHammer, I don't find him particularly suspicious. Some have found his saying, "good start with the
scum being killed" as scummy but it didn't strike me that way, and I understood his "sarcasm" post, but I do think
he over-reacted to strife's post asking for people's opinions on the top 3 vote getters, and I don't like his early vanilla claim.

@Jazzmyn: What about his reactions to being voted? What do you think of his most recent vote and reaction to Juls' line of questioning?

Ribwich is pinging my scumdar a bit for his vote hopping, and his discussion of setup long after it ought to have ceased.

Fair enough.

@Jazzmyn: Has your suspicion of ribwich changed? It's been a while since he moved his vote. Does that have any bearing on your assessment of "vote hopping?"

[Jazzmyn]

Regarding Percy, it is possible that he was rabble rousing against Sche but I happen to agree with him about Sche
and I think he made several valid points, so I cannot interpret this as scummy. I am not, however, enamoured
of his playing the newbie card in a couple of his posts.

@Jazzmyn: You think that because someone presents a valid argument then it's safe to ignore suspicions about his motives and execution?

Kindly refrain from manufacturing strawmen out of my words, Sche. Doing so does not do anything to alleviate my suspicions about you.

For the record, though, I do not ignore suspicions about anyone, and I am suspicious of everyone at this point in the game. At any given point in a game, it is a matter of which players are

most

suspicious to me, and those are the players who my posts will perhaps concentrate on at any given time, but that does not mean that I ignore anyone or anything - I don't.

You don't have to be town in order to say something true.

Indeed. But I'm afraid I do not understand the purpose of this particular non sequitur.

Regarding DerHammer, I don't find him particularly suspicious. Some have found his saying, "good start with the
scum being killed" as scummy but it didn't strike me that way, and I understood his "sarcasm" post, but I do think
he over-reacted to strife's post asking for people's opinions on the top 3 vote getters, and I don't like his early vanilla claim.

@Jazzmyn: What about his reactions to being voted? What do you think of his most recent vote and reaction to Juls' line of questioning?

I previously mentioned that his recent vote was for a dubious reason - perhaps you missed that, even though it was in the same post of mine that you quoted from above. I think his reaction to Juls in his post #250 was pretty lame, and that was the impetus for my agreement with Vi in my post #270 that the choice at the moment, unfortunately, seems to be "between useless and more useless."

Ribwich is pinging my scumdar a bit for his vote hopping, and his discussion of setup long after it ought to have ceased.

Fair enough.

@Jazzmyn: Has your suspicion of ribwich changed? It's been a while since he moved his vote. Does that have any bearing on your assessment of "vote hopping?"

I have filed away his response to my voiced suspicion of him for future reference, and will reassess my suspicion of him as the game progresses but I am content for now with his explanation of the setup discussion point. As for vote hopping, you are quite right that he has not moved his vote for a while, and that may or may not have a bearing on my assessment later in the game, depending on how things develop. I cannot predict whether it will or not in advance of seeing how he plays and votes in the future, so again it is something filed away for future reference.


Regards,
Jazz

[Scheherazade]

@Jazzmyn: I posed it as a question because I was afraid that I had misunderstood you. It would have been a "strawman" if I tried to discredit your argument by arguing against one of my fabrication. Let me highlight the sentence:

it is possible that he was rabble rousing... but...I think he made several valid points, so I cannot interpret this as scummy.

The implications of this post are that you could interpret this as scummy but choose not to because he says something you find valid. I'm asking, are you really discarding your suspicion here based on that?

And "You don't have to be town in order to say something true" isn't a non sequitur--it's a reaction to the statement I addressed above.

I asked about Der Hammer again because you saw fit to note that he'd done something suspicious in time to revise the post where you state an opinion of him without actually revising your opinion. Are you saying that his action has absolutely no bearing on your read right now?