Choose Carefully Mafia: (Game Over)


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Post Post #550 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:38 am

Post by bird1111 »

Vote Count:
Santos (6): ZazieR, Moses le fou, Save the Dragon, ZTR, hp [leaves], Sineish, Battle Mage
Save the Dragons (2): Riceballtail, Santos
Battle Mage (1): SocioPath
ZTR (1): Empking

Not voting (5): Thunder, armlx, ribwich, oEJo, CarnCarn

With 16 alive it is 9 to lynch.

Lynch Method Vote Count:
Gun (10): hp [leaves], oEJo, ribwich, SocioPath, Battle Mage, armlx, Sineish, CarnCarn, Riceballtail, Santos
Rope (5): Save the Dragons, Empking, Moses le fou, ZazieR, ZTR


Not voting for a lynch method (1): Thunder

If a lynch were to happen without any change in lynch method votes, the Gun would be used.
Last edited by bird1111 on Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #551 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:50 am

Post by ribwich »

Alright, first off I'm going to apologize for not delivering on the post by post analysis I had previously promised. I was working on it, but it was just taking way too long to do.

Regarding the neighbor roles, I don't think we should go too much into it. There's just too many possibilites for what could happen even with 3 groups (And I have suspicions that there could be a fourth group as well.)

1. T-T T-S1 T-S2
2. T-T T-T S1-S2
3. T-T T-T T-T
4. T-S1 T-S2 T-SK
5. T-S1 T-S2 S1-S2

There's some that are much more likely than others, but in the end it turns into a matter of outguessing the mod. Where I do think this will come in handy though is in trying to figure out which lynch method to use later on in the game. Once we have somebody that is confirmed scum, if we suspect another person in the neighbor groups, we can use the symmetry to find out what they're immune to. I don't think we should use the symmetry to find out WHO to target, but instead should use it to figure out HOW to target them.

I don't think there's anything that we can get out of the mod edits. The mod has made other mistakes in the vote count, and I think trying to analyze what caused his mistake will lead us nowhere.

I do believe Santos is scum for many of the other reasons people have brought up. There is one post he has made though that everyone else seemed to have disliked for an entirely different reason than me though.
Santos wrote:I have been examining Riceballtail's play and I am impressed with his performance. I'm not sure whether I want to follow it or not. There is nothing ambiguous at all in his posting skills. Its either a very good scum poster, or a very careful power role. I aspire to play this way :p
Other people commented on how this looks like Santos is just trying to buddy up to Riceball, but to me it looks like subtle rolefishing. If it was rolefishing, I don't think it did a very good job, because there didn't seem to be any reactions from Riceball to imply that he has a powerrole. But it does look to me that this was Santos's intentions: To get Riceball to slip about having a power role.

As for which lynch method to use, I believe the gun would be the best option. Santos's initial vote was most likely little more than a random vote. But his vote for rope later on seemed like he was trying to trick everybody into thinking that only rope will kill scum. Of course, WIFOM is involved, but I honestly think he was not thinking that far ahead. His post to me looked like he saw pressure was being put on him, so he attempted to find whatever reason he could to get people to vote for rope.

Vote: Santos
Vote: Gun
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Post Post #552 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:44 pm

Post by CarnCarn »

ribwich wrote:Other people commented on how this looks like Santos is just trying to buddy up to Riceball, but to me it looks like subtle rolefishing. If it was rolefishing, I don't think it did a very good job, because there didn't seem to be any reactions from Riceball to imply that he has a powerrole. But it does look to me that this was Santos's intentions: To get Riceball to slip about having a power role.

As for which lynch method to use, I believe the gun would be the best option. Santos's initial vote was most likely little more than a random vote. But his vote for rope later on seemed like he was trying to trick everybody into thinking that only rope will kill scum. Of course, WIFOM is involved, but I honestly think he was not thinking that far ahead. His post to me looked like he saw pressure was being put on him, so he attempted to find whatever reason he could to get people to vote for rope.

Vote: Santos
Vote: Gun
I don't know why you think that is rolefishing at all. He wasn't making a serious accusation, and it's not like RBT is going to just come out and state his role because Santos mentioned that he could possibly be a power role.

And, if you think Santos is scum, you do realize that he is voting Gun now? And that's it's way ahead of Rope? If Santos is scum, it's probably the Rope that will work.

Although I don't really see a definate scum tell, the Santos case is probably the strongest. The strange thing is how he keeps following RBT. Just recently, RBT decided to vote STD and Gun, saying:
Riceballtail wrote:
UNVOTE; Vote:STD; Vote:Gun


Let's see where this wagon goes.
And guess what Santos decides to do:
Santos wrote:
Unvote: whoever

Unvote: Rope

Vote: Save the Dragons

Vote: Gun
I don't know if such blatant buddying is really a tell, but I'm definately looking for an explanation from Santos.
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Post Post #553 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:39 pm

Post by ribwich »

Like I said, I don't think it was a very good rolefish. But I do think that is what he was trying to do.

And yes, I know he's voting gun. However, didn't he also claim that he'll just vote for whatever the majority is on now?
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Post Post #554 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:14 pm

Post by Santos »

I thought I was actually following your lead, CarnCarn. I have no explanation except to say that I am glad someone focused on someone who was trying to lead the town which is either what a scum falls into doing, or a vanilla townie will do. Power roles usually stay dormant or lurk like a mafia godfather.
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Post Post #555 (ISO) » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:12 pm

Post by Moses le fou »

I doubt there's an SK. How would it work exactly? He'd have to choose whether his kill works on townies, Sicilians OR Corsicans? And what would kill him at night? Or lynch him for that matter? I guess it's in the realm of possibility, but I think an SK (or any third-party role) would make the game too convoluted
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Post Post #556 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:34 am

Post by bird1111 »

Looking for a Thunder replacement.
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Post Post #557 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:25 am

Post by Riceballtail »

I agree that an SK would feel really out of place in this game, but at the same time, I would easily see it being put in as someone who can kill anyone every night.
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Post Post #558 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:36 am

Post by ribwich »

Speculating on a SK probably won't get us very far, but I do agree it seems unlikely in a game like this.
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Post Post #559 (ISO) » Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:29 pm

Post by Santos »

Carn?
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Post Post #560 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:06 am

Post by Battle Mage »

bird1111 wrote:Vote Count:
Santos (6): ZazieR, Moses le fou, Save the Dragon, ZTR, hp [leaves], Sineish, Battle Mage
Save the Dragons (2): Riceballtail, Santos
Battle Mage (1): SocioPath
Riceballtail (1): Battle Mage
ZTR (1): Empking
Yay, i have 2 votes!

Unvote: Santos, Vote: RBT

Unvote: Gun

Bird wrote: Lynch Method Vote Count:
Gun (10): hp [leaves], oEJo, ribwich, SocioPath, Battle Mage, armlx, Sineish, CarnCarn, Riceballtail, Santos
Rope (5): Save the Dragons, Empking, Moses le fou, ZazieR, ZTR


Not voting for a lynch method (1): Thunder

If a lynch were to happen without any change in lynch method votes, the
Rope
would be used.
WTF? 0.o

BM

Mistakes in vote count fixed, along with the tags in this post.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #561 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:07 am

Post by Battle Mage »

argh, my tags suck...

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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #562 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:00 am

Post by CarnCarn »

Battle Mage wrote:
Unvote: Santos, Vote: RBT
Unvote: Gun
So, you're going back to RBT. Why the sudden shifting? The Gun unvote is also interesting.
Santos wrote:I thought I was actually following your lead, CarnCarn. I have no explanation except to say that I am glad someone focused on someone who was trying to lead the town which is either what a scum falls into doing, or a vanilla townie will do. Power roles usually stay dormant or lurk like a mafia godfather.
Well, maybe... I did unvote STD by the time you voted. I think it is a null-tell for now, but I've Got My Eye On Him.
Santos wrote:Carn?
Santos?
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Post Post #563 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:16 am

Post by ribwich »

I'd also like to hear why BM changed his votes. And why unvote the gun but not vote for rope?
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Post Post #564 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:27 am

Post by Battle Mage »

CarnCarn wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:
Unvote: Santos, Vote: RBT
Unvote: Gun
So, you're going back to RBT. Why the sudden shifting? The Gun unvote is also interesting.
Getting cold feet about the stalling of the Santos wagon. Also curious to see what happens when it begins to lose more momentum.

Unvoted Gun because im no longer certain it is the right decision if Santos is scum. I cant see how Santos scum makes logical sense, given his weapon votes, unless he is just being completely random.

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Nightkilled - 10
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Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #565 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:24 am

Post by Riceballtail »

He goes back to me because he loves me so much. :P
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Post Post #566 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:47 am

Post by Santos »

Well, Save the Dragons has seemed the most hostile towards me out of anyone, but it will probably be argued that its just an 'OMGUS' vote. However, he seemed to be leading most people to getting me lynched quick, fast and in a hurry. When CarnCarn made his points earlier, I agreed with those and probably will not change my vote at this time.
He goes back to me because he loves me so much.
Its comments like these that are pretty much waaaaay too ambiguous to ever know if he is a scum flirting with other players cutely, or a power role doing the same thing. He is definitely worth some paying attention to, IMO.
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Post Post #567 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:15 pm

Post by Save The Dragons »

armlx wrote: You sure of that?
And here's where I defy you to show me a game where scum could talk pre-game with no night 1.
Santos wrote:
Unvote: whoever

Unvote: Rope

Vote: Save the Dragons

Vote: Gun


I
really
like how someone finally compiled some evidence against this guy; not to mention it makes loads of sense now that he was leading the town to get me lynched.
I really like how this makes it look like you couldn't. And that you missed the fact that the only person to actually provide evidence retracted your vote.

Seriously. Why. are. you. not. dead.
Santos wrote:Well, Save the Dragons has seemed the most hostile towards me out of anyone, but it will probably be argued that its just an 'OMGUS' vote.
Actually, I'm curious as to why you think hostility is scummy.
Santos wrote:When CarnCarn made his points earlier, I agreed with those and probably will not change my vote at this time.
...I was under the impression that he made a lot of those points under a false assumption.

I'm sorry dude, but you fail to impress me.
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Post Post #568 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:20 pm

Post by Santos »

oh noes, i can't impress you!
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Post Post #569 (ISO) » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:00 pm

Post by armlx »

And here's where I defy you to show me a game where scum could talk pre-game with no night 1.
Polygamist mafia to start, plus any game with day talk....
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Post Post #570 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:03 am

Post by hp [leaves] »

I was V/LA for three days. Catching up
We must embrace the pain and burn it as fuel for our journey.
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Post Post #571 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:06 am

Post by Empking »

Yeah, scum talking pre-game isn't that unusual.
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #572 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:02 am

Post by oEJo »

Santos wrote:I thought I was actually following your lead, CarnCarn. I have no explanation except to say that I am glad someone focused on someone who was trying to lead the town which is either what a scum falls into doing, or a vanilla townie will do. Power roles usually stay dormant or lurk like a mafia godfather.
Why exactly are you following CarnCarn's lead?
Just call me EJ.
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Post Post #573 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:21 pm

Post by Santos »

Why exactly are you following CarnCarn's lead?
Well, after the fact that a third mason came out before my lynch I felt his notice of a town leader was sufficient enough because that person was pushing the most for me to be lynched.
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Post Post #574 (ISO) » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:22 pm

Post by Santos »

Save the Dragons just sounds really annoyed that I am not dead yet. What could be more suspect?
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