Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Lukewarm]

Also to be honest, I just realized that marci is a survivor playing survivor in a mafia game and we should probably just kill that even though from a meta perspective I shouldn’t.

wtf does this mean

He is saying that he thinks you are more focused on surviving then solving.

[VP Baltar]

READS I HAVE THAT ACTUALLY MATTER
Dunn - Strongly feel that they should die. gorilla's said some similar stuff to what I'm about to (I have 1473 and 1485 in my notes in particular) but have a nice new condensed version with maybe a couple bonuses, freed from the wallpost swamp of the past.
A huge chunk of his iso for today has been nitpicking and gotchas of "NEVER SAID/DID THAT" instead of actually going over his reads in any detail, and I still have basically no idea what his reads are on the vast majority of the playerlist (he has scumreads on gorilla & cakez, and maybe still on marci I think. he's commented on VPB but as far as I see, not shared a read on him.) All the poking questions day 1 with no reads from him as followups followed by this feels like trying to keep an intentionally low profile and not give useful info for when he does get elim'd/invictus'd in the future. Also I think his push on gorilla is bad and feels more performative on his part than an actual effort to convince people that gorilla is scum and should die.

I definitely agree with the nitpicky/pointless arguing point. Also, now that Luke is out with this nonsense and pairing with Dunn, I am perhaps more swayed to backing the Dunn lim today as a safety measure.

Dunn -- I would like a full reads list from you when you pop up next. Do your best to sort people, and a sentence of reasoning would be great. No need to make cases.

[gorilla]

VOTE: dwlee

I am ready to end the day and twin with Dunn.

I think tomorrow will be very enlightening

This isn't how a town PR who believes they have a strong chance of dying overnight plays the end of the day. Just an FYI.

[VP Baltar]

My town reads look like this:

I believe that Bell is a friendly neighbor so town

Malakittens/Rhyme & Reason probably town due to role as well, can look into this more later but not really interested in eliminating there

Actual town reads:

Lukewarm; Not solely due to their claim, I've liked their tone this game. Beyond that, I think a Lukewarm that shows that he is carefully considering things is likely to be town. What I mean by that is that in posts like 1606, 1106 show that he is looking into things being discussed in thread, which I believe is a town tell for Luke.

fireisredsir; The last game I played with fireisredsir was spring fling and I pretty easily came to a townread on them there, same thing here. I believe that they are out of their "scum range" which is (no offense) not very large. In this game if you open their iso they have several posts which are paragraph length and thinking things over in detail. I'm personally comparing to the League game where they were mafia that was talked about earlier as well as Spring fling where they were town.

Val89; I like the analytical style, like to read their thoughts on the game. I like that they point out when other players' posts don't make sense. I think that it is fine that they outted the Mala/R&r thing because scum have a lot more people to catch slip-ups and are additionally keeping an eye out for that by default so they likely noticed it as well, meaning only town would be confused by it.

Kovu: I think that outting the neighborhood like that and switching their read is pretty squarely Kovu as town

Lean town on VP Baltar, Meuh, and Marci. First two because I like some of what they have posted, last one because I liked Luke's recent posts about how this is town marci

and yes I see this, so sorting out the rest of your reads might be helpful if this is still where you are on town.

[Lukewarm]

when luke first partial claimed i thought it was def a vig that he was hinting at

but then as time went on i felt like the way that he played the day and played out the claim didn't really actually make sense for him to be a vigilante, bc it would be massively more beneficial for scum to not know what was coming, so i started to assume he was something else

and then he just claims vig anyway

so im kinda in agreement with gorilla there

My play around my ability has largely been built around

1) ensuring that I successfully fire, because failing to fire at all seemed like a real possibility.
and
2) liking the person that we were Invictus targetting.

Like, first I was trying to get a feel for Bell. And if I liked his scum read, great.
Then, when that wouldn't work, I realized that I could likely guess someone being on Enchant, but he is not really someone I would want to vig because he is someone who, if scum, never end games. So not a priority for me.

So, I wanted to find someone who would agree to pair with me intentionally, and that person would work with me on mutually picking a target. So, I outed the need to pair.

Now that I am scum reading gorilla, and dunn has already offered to pair with me while targetting gorilla, that seems like a good enough way to ensure both of those things happen.

[VP Baltar]

If he is scum, and I don't out, I die to his invictus.

Would scum have invictus shots? That seems to auto-punish a correct town vig.

[fireisredsir]

ok yea bell is right marci has just been floating for ages

[Lukewarm]

4. Does everyone have access to Invictus?

• It can be expected that most or all players have access to Invictus.

I am operating under the assumption that scum have Invictus as well.

[VP Baltar]

I could likely guess someone being on Enchant, but he is not really someone I would want to vig because he is someone who, if scum, never end games. So not a priority for me.

How is this a downside to shooting Enchant? You'd be saving town a day phase if he's scum.

[Lukewarm]

That is actually one of the first things that I checked once I got my role lol

[Lukewarm]

I could likely guess someone being on Enchant, but he is not really someone I would want to vig because he is someone who, if scum, never end games. So not a priority for me.

How is this a downside to shooting Enchant? You'd be saving town a day phase if he's scum.

Why would I prioritize shooting someone who will likely die to invictus at some point this game, regardless of his alignment.

Even if he some how manages to dodge invictus's as scum, he doesn't win the game as the end game scum.

I would rather shoot a strong scum read tbh.

[fireisredsir]

If he is scum, and I don't out, I die to his invictus.

Would scum have invictus shots? That seems to auto-punish a correct town vig.

maf did have invictus in the previous game fwiw

[Lukewarm]

If he is scum, and I don't out, I die to his invictus.

Would scum have invictus shots? That seems to auto-punish a correct town vig.

Just @the thread in general.

Baltar is absolutely someone who would fake townslip like this as scum. So frankly, this statement should be treated as NAI

[marcistar]

ok yea bell is right marci has just been floating for ages

i just feel so bad... im heartbroken at seeing datisi flip town..

i really wanna talk about my reads but i. not so confident anymore.. i dont wanna be wrong a clown myself again

[VP Baltar]

4. Does everyone have access to Invictus?

• It can be expected that most or all players have access to Invictus.

I am operating under the assumption that scum have Invictus as well.

ok, so the scum have invictus in the original game. However, it does not appear there is a town killing ability in that game (skimmed, so maybe I missed it). That feels a bit broken to me if we assume all the scum can invictus.

[VP Baltar]

Even if he some how manages to dodge invictus's as scum, he doesn't win the game as the end game scum

having scum!enchant in Xylo sounds fucking terrible.

[Gammagooey]

@Lukewarm I made a gorilla towncase a couple days back to R&R - I don't need a full rebuttal or anything but what did you think of that at the time? And what do you think of me this game day?

I don't have time to dig through much of your iso atm, but your 1905 is a decent jumping off point for what I want to bug you about
My view of you+gorilla around then is that gorilla thinks your Dunn read is bad and mostly unjustified, and you're scumreading gorilla b/c you think that based on what he's saying about your opinion of Dunn, you think it'd make more sense from an outside perspective that Dunn would be white-knighting you or trying to pocket you, not that you two would be partners together. Is that close to correct for you?

I get your viewpoint there I think that from what you've said that you think that if Dunn is posting specifically towards you that you'd be town he's trying to convince instead of his scumpartner. But from gorilla's POV if it seems like you're letting Dunn off the hook easily for what gorilla sees as a bad reason to townread him, is it that outlandish for him to think you're potentially scum w/ Dunn because of it? Dunn directing his posts towards you in a way that feels like it's directed towards a potential town-you I feel like is a lot easier to see from your perspective than it is an outside one.

Also let me know if the wording of the above is confusing and I can try to rephrase it, but I think I got across at least the gist of what I mean.
Also also I think you've got like...maybe 15-30 posts left for today before you hit reserves? So if you want to wait until you're responding to something else and add that in that's fine too, I would very much prefer to not have a surprise literal last day before deadline replacement to deal with.

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunn

[fireisredsir]

ok yea bell is right marci has just been floating for ages

i just feel so bad... im heartbroken at seeing datisi flip town..

i really wanna talk about my reads but i. not so confident anymore.. i dont wanna be wrong a clown myself again

i don't really get this tbh, like i feel this way sometimes but i still will at least be trying to solve even if im not confident my solve is right or pushing for people to follow me. don't really see why town would be content to just sit there doing nothing

especially if you really want to talk about your reads... just do it? what are your reads?

[gorilla]

4. Does everyone have access to Invictus?

• It can be expected that most or all players have access to Invictus.

I am operating under the assumption that scum have Invictus as well.

ok, so the scum have invictus in the original game. However, it does not appear there is a town killing ability in that game (skimmed, so maybe I missed it). That feels a bit broken to me if we assume all the scum can invictus.

There was no town killing ability in that game beyond the invictus, but there was potential for one to exist. Still, in such an instance, although that ability can function as a double-edged sword I think it tilts the number of kills in town's favor further in what is already a setup that gives town a significant amount of power.

[gorilla]

Even if he some how manages to dodge invictus's as scum, he doesn't win the game as the end game scum

having scum!enchant in Xylo sounds fucking terrible.

Scum Enchant isn't a problem there. Town Enchant is. (although again should emphasize he's never scum if Luke is)

[Lukewarm]

@Marci, will you commit to planting your invictus on gorilla overnight if Dunn dies today?

I think that Baltar's recent vote switch from dwlee to dunn is in hopes to keep me from being able to shoot there.

[Lukewarm]

Even if he some how manages to dodge invictus's as scum, he doesn't win the game as the end game scum

having scum!enchant in Xylo sounds fucking terrible.

And I think that the most likely out come for enchant this game, is that at some point someone will invictus him - regardless of his alignment.

It feels like you and I fundamentally think differently about both the use of a vigilante shot and playing with Enchant.

[fireisredsir]

@Marci, will you commit to planting your invictus on gorilla overnight if Dunn dies today?

I think that Baltar's recent vote switch from dwlee to dunn is in hopes to keep me from being able to shoot there.

are you scumreading vp now?

[gorilla]

@Marci, will you commit to planting your invictus on gorilla overnight if Dunn dies today?

I think that Baltar's recent vote switch from dwlee to dunn is in hopes to keep me from being able to shoot there.

I should emphasize: Luke's literal only concern right now is being able to kill me. He is absolutely flailing scum. A town PR in this situation would be concerned with making their perspective clear and leaving legacy reads. He is not doing that. He is playing purely reactively. It is not town motivated whatsoever.