Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[gorilla]

VOTE: Meuh

There is no world whatsoever in which she is town. None. I will stake the game on this.

[fireisredsir]

i just don't think they're paired

and why can’t we both be town?
Like I get thinking we’re not S/S but I’m not following your logic

my logic was about why you're not likely to be S/S. ruling out pairings at this stage of the game when there's a narrow poe is v useful. i didn't conclude that exactly one of you is scum. most teams that im considering do have one of you on them, though, but it is possible you're both town

[Meuh]

I think Cakez’ play near EoD was pretty townie so I was kinda surprised at the invictus shot but also it’s not a terrible hero shot so whatever
I think Dunn or Fey was a better shot though

Also @Gorilla I just didn’t want day to end early
I wanted to push Dunn again later but Fire was ruling him out in that one list and I wanted some sort of compromise so I voted somewhere else. I think I made it pretty clear I just wanted some sort of unity and if you look at the game fmpov I don’t really see why this doesn’t reason with you
Can’t say I’m really that torn up about Enchant being limmed either way

Pedit: Okay, you’re either scum or forever tunnelled on me, I don’t think there’s a point in engaging with you about my own alignment at this point
I by no means have played well this game so ig I can’t fault you if you’re town but this just feels sad
Tbh I think I’m more frustrated at myself than at anyone else at this point because I feel like I’ve been on the right track several times this game and just ended up off course and it’s infuriating

@Fire Oh with the last sentence before that made me think you thought we were T/S and that was more iffy to me. Makes more sense

[gorilla]

I think if anything Meuh/Dunn seems likely, based on her terrible progression on him and the way she immediately tried and succeeded in getting a counterwagon going instead. But I don't want to get ahead of myself.

You're going to have to find one town in Fey/Dunn/Gamma/Fire. I don't think that's going to be easy.

[gorilla]

You should probably be a little less blasé about my read seeing as the game is on the line. Is "whatever ur tunneled" your response to a potentially game-losing read if I'm town? Also I thought you were certain on me being scum?

[gorilla]

I think if Dunn is scum, I would pick Gammagooey as most likely to be town out of those names, seeing as he was on Dunn's tail from Day 1.

[gorilla]

I wanted to push Dunn again later but Fire was ruling him out in that one list and I wanted some sort of compromise so I voted somewhere else. I think I made it pretty clear I just wanted some sort of unity and if you look at the game fmpov I don’t really see why this doesn’t reason with you

All of this just reads like whiny scum excuses. Why couldn't you push him yourself? What nonsense.

[Kovu]

Gorilla is locktown. If you disagree with that statement, I'd love to see the case for why it is wrong.

[gorilla]

Cool. So now that we've established that VP Balter is wrong and bad, let's focus on the current game.

LOL

dying

my first reaction to this post was "well, dunn is town" but tbh showing up only after people start pushing on him means i proooobably shouldn't let him off that easy, even though i want to. idk

[gorilla]

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Are the only posts fire has made about or in response to dunn. Feel like fire is just trying to push me without actually engaging with the Dunn wagon, and his posts about Dunn consist of things like "teehee what if I townread dunn for a bad reason"

ive already said (maybe it was in the hood? idr) that i like dunn/dwlee as being the main wagons. idk why you would expect me to engage heavily with the dunn wagon here? i don't have very strong feelings on it

personally i think he's felt tonally very similar to his spring fling play, including the way that he's reacted to some of the pushes on him. bell i believe in that game said that he often responds to things in a sassy/snarky way as town and i felt a lot of that here. there is some lack of proactivity and scumhunting, though, so im not opposed to the wagon. my gut could be wrong on him, so im not like gonna fight the people scumreading him, i just think you're much more likely to be scum

[gorilla]

Maybe I'm too wrapped up in OMGUSing Meuh. I don't know. I skimmed fire's iso with regard to marci and dunn (again admittedly doing preflipping here) and it is really not great at all.


VOTE: Dunnstral

[Meuh]

At this point we have 3 lims and 2 Invictus shots right?
Maybe killing me sooner rather than later is better because I feel like my mere existence is gonna derail us
But also 75% accuracy after that is not something I expect to happen
Blegh
Are we just doomed

Pedit: Idk if you’re scum anymore I have no clue
Rber would make the setup more balanced considering the roles we have confirmed
I’d rather not be mislimmed but idk what you want me to do
Like you haven’t engaged with anything I’ve said to defend myself iirc so it doesn’t really feel like you’re actually trying to sort me
But also maybe you’re just painfully tunnelled town
Bg claim is kinda nonsensical for scum to make

Spoiler: Don’t read this if you want to be in a good mood

Why didn’t I push him myself?? What nonsense???
HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO LEAD A WAGON???? WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD ANYBODY FOLLOW ME??? HUH???? WE WERE CLOSE TO DEADLINE AND I LISTENED TO THE ONE PERSON WHO COULD BE A TOWN LEADER WHO ACTUALLY HAD ANY INPUT ON WHERE TO VOTE?? WOW WANTING TO NARROW THE LIMPOOL IS SO TERRIBLE. LIKE WOW I’M SO SCUMMY FOR TRYING TO CREATE SOME SEMBLANCE OF UNITY??? I WAS TRYING TO YOU KNOW, “HEY GUYS THERE’S NOT MUCH TIME LEFT MAYBE ONE OF THE 4 PEOPLE THAT MOST TOWNREAD SHOULD PUSH SOMEWHERE” CAUSE NOTHING WAS HAPPENING??? WHAT’S THE POINT OF ME PUSHING ANYWHERE WHEN I DON’T HAVE MANY PEOPLE’S TRUST AND PEOPLE ARE SO VEHEMENTLY DEFENDING EVERYONE IN THE LIMPOOL, AS YOU EVEN SAID YOURSELF. YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT THE PROBLEM OF EVERYONE SHIELDING SCUM AND WHEN I TRY TO INCITE SOME TRUSTWORTHY PERSON TO DO SOMETHING WHICH WOULD SOLVE THAT PROBLEM YOU CALL ME SCUM OVER IT????

Okay yes VOTE: Dunn here you go let’s vote for scum

[gorilla]

Meuh, I'm going to give you a chance here. Hopefully I haven't annoyed you too much with my ranting and you're still willing to accept an olive branch.

I'm not going to talk about you or your read on me. These are obvious dead ends.


What are your reads on other players in the game? I don't care if you think I'm 100% confirmed scum, I want to hear what you think about other people.

[gorilla]

lmao, I'm sorry, if you're town I probably deserve that rant

[Gammagooey]

Gorilla is locktown. If you disagree with that statement, I'd love to see the case for why it is wrong.

locktown is dumb when scum had a bodyguard in the last game and gorilla's posting in the 2nd half of yesterday was very mediocre
having said that I still think his day 1 play in particular was great so if you wanna have a regular-ass townread on him that's fine

I'm prob not voting until everyone shows up at least once today unless there's a very good reason to do so btw, R&R thoughts and what Fey+Dunn think given the Cakez flip both seem nice to have at this point

[Meuh]

Meuh, I'm going to give you a chance here. Hopefully I haven't annoyed you too much with my ranting and you're still willing to accept an olive branch.

I'm not going to talk about you or your read on me. These are obvious dead ends.


What are your reads on other players in the game? I don't care if you think I'm 100% confirmed scum, I want to hear what you think about other people.

Okay don’t click on the spoiler tag then <3
I’m also willing to work with you because I feel like you’re just tunnelled

Pedit: NOOO I FEEL BAD NOW
It’s ok it’s ok
I really needed to get that out of my system though

As for reads:
I see no reason to scumread Gamma here, but also I don’t strongly townread him. Fey is a big ? and tbh I would do anything just for a sliver of insight from the almighty R&R.
Dunn is scum just in like every way and if he isn’t I need to find a new career
Kovu is the towniest townie to ever town
I’ve started feeling mild doubts about Fire I don’t remember exactly when? Like somewhere between mid day 2 and the start of this day. Which sounds terrible considering the shade you’ve just cast upon him but meh
Before then I’ve just kinda been defaulting to “oh but 1500 post neighbourhood” which like fair but where tf else is scum??
Who else is in the game
Bell is Bell

Wait is that really it???
Ig it’s Dun and then 2 people in {Fey, Fire, Gamma, you}
I’d default to Dun/Fey/Fire at the moment tbh
The idea of neither of you or Fire being scum seems kind of insane to me at this point
Dun/Fey/Gamma does not really make sense
Maybe Dun/Gamma/Fire
Any way you cut it I think Dun’s scum so let’s please just finally lim him

[Fey]

I just don't have the motivation this game me sorry.

I wasn't pointing my Invictus shot at Cakez last night I will Say That.

[gorilla]

Meuh, I'm going to give you a chance here. Hopefully I haven't annoyed you too much with my ranting and you're still willing to accept an olive branch.

I'm not going to talk about you or your read on me. These are obvious dead ends.


What are your reads on other players in the game? I don't care if you think I'm 100% confirmed scum, I want to hear what you think about other people.

Okay don’t click on the spoiler tag then <3
I’m also willing to work with you because I feel like you’re just tunnelled

Pedit: NOOO I FEEL BAD NOW
It’s ok it’s ok
I really needed to get that out of my system though

As for reads:
I see no reason to scumread Gamma here, but also I don’t strongly townread him. Fey is a big ? and tbh I would do anything just for a sliver of insight from the almighty R&R.
Dunn is scum just in like every way and if he isn’t I need to find a new career
Kovu is the towniest townie to ever town
I’ve started feeling mild doubts about Fire I don’t remember exactly when? Like somewhere between mid day 2 and the start of this day. Which sounds terrible considering the shade you’ve just cast upon him but meh
Before then I’ve just kinda been defaulting to “oh but 1500 post neighbourhood” which like fair but where tf else is scum??
Who else is in the game
Bell is Bell

Wait is that really it???
Ig it’s Dun and then 2 people in {Fey, Fire, Gamma, you}
I’d default to Dun/Fey/Fire at the moment tbh
The idea of neither of you or Fire being scum seems kind of insane to me at this point
Dun/Fey/Gamma does not really make sense
Maybe Dun/Gamma/Fire
Any way you cut it I think Dun’s scum so let’s please just finally lim him

No it's fine, I don't take it personally, really, and it's okay to go off on me for that, I probably deserve it. Will get to addressing reads stuff in a bit.

It's important because if you're town then we...probably need to get the exact team right. And that's more useful than back and forth bickering. If you're scum you still have to give reads on your partners here that can be potentially incriminating. It's harder for scum to win as the last one standing in this setup than to hope that town messes up twice in a row here. So either way, it's beneficial to discuss these things.

[Kovu]

Gorilla is locktown. If you disagree with that statement, I'd love to see the case for why it is wrong.

locktown is dumb when scum had a bodyguard in the last game and gorilla's posting in the 2nd half of yesterday was very mediocre
having said that I still think his day 1 play in particular was great so if you wanna have a regular-ass townread on him that's fine

I'm prob not voting until everyone shows up at least once today unless there's a very good reason to do so btw, R&R thoughts and what Fey+Dunn think given the Cakez flip both seem nice to have at this point

hmm a regular tr? that's not as exciting as LOCKTOWN though...

Gamma, I want to figure you out. part of me has thought you've been maf this entire game, so if you're town, ideally I'll just TR you and yeah.

I think most of this is just like, I can't remember you doing much of anything this whole game except that pivot to enchant while I was trying to push a dwlee wagon... although, just saying it now, it's like why would maf do that? Town competing over Lava/Dwlee, maf has 0 need to introduce another option... so that would probably make you town...

but we're addressing ALL concerns of mine, I need to know without a doubt if you're town

Question 1) Why did you ask gorilla who he guarded last night(2850) and like not follow it up with anything? like, usually when people ask questions there's thoughts to whatever the answer is

Reading this ISO it's not as bad as I had in my mind. hmm

2611 you call me maf.. call me the "deepwolf" and talk about how 1 scum is putting in all this effort to avoid invictus shots..
Question 2) what had you thinking only 1 maf was trying super hard? like, by that point, none of the invictus shots were on maf, it's not like a single mafia has died this game... so if I had to guess, maf would be sitting fairly comfortably sure.. but what exactly makes fire or I a deep wolf? like, have we been left alive for people to start casting paranoia our way? At this point idk if this is even a question, this is just where my doubt is. like, you say fire or I is the 3rd deepwolf, but you don't cite anything scummy thus far to back up the claim. Like, just cause we're in a hood? like.. why do WE have to be the deepwolf? plus the claim that only 1 maf is trying hard? I mean, I think it's more that town just isn't trying or doing a whole lot to make themselves known and the "consensus poe" has basically just been the VT claims... like... yeah idk, I have lots of thoughts but we'll end there..


I guess we'll just go with those 2 things for now, my issue is, everyone keeps saying I'm town, but I'm just like, why am I still alive then? like, where are my reads wrong? But then like, I come into today deadset Val and gorilla are maf... val flips town, I don't even reconsider, then a very wise person was like "hey... gorilla being framed" and I was like, yeah... that makes a lot of sense, and like gorilla was saying some stuff that was just way out there and I was TRing that cause again, why would maf say some stuff like that, and the comment like "2k posts is just implausible" like, I laughed and was like, scum probably doesn't say that, scum probably starts asking what they're about or something else, and uhhh yeah all that together is kinda how I arrived at gorilla lock town.

Hmm what else is new... yeah I'm running out of people to make reads on.
I'd love some actual content from Fey, all my reads are just emotions based there.
Dunn thoughts on Cakez being town/who dunn thinks is maf would be pretty cool.

uhhh I'll go back to lurking in the shadows/talking in the hoods... goodbye. that is all..

[fireisredsir]

ok so ive been thinking about possible teams. RR and bell are ruled out. i think ive just accepted atp that if kovu is scum then i have lost to it, and am not considering that currently. maybe ill reconsider that at some point but i kinda doubt it. we did have a moment at start of day where we were paranoid of each other after the flips due to setup spec but tbh i kinda think thats what maf wanted by killing val. i don't think it really makes sense for kovu to nk val here.

so that leaves: gamma, gorilla, meuh, dunn, fey.

im ruling out teams with gorilla+meuh for now, based on reasoning i gave earlier and their interactions today add to that feeling. i think thats the only pairing im really ok with ruling out completely rn.

i do also think that gorilla+dunn is pretty unlikely, due to the luke situation. that one is still possible though, maybe, it might depend on the roles scum have.

that means the only really viable gorilla team fmpov is gorilla+gamma+fey. looking just at their interactions, this is actually... very possible. which is unfortunate, if it weren't viable i could feel comfortable treating gorilla as town for now. but gorilla defused the fey wagon yesterday, gamma fits well as a gorilla partner, and generally throughout the game they've been approaching the game from different angles in a way that it feels like a scum team might. gamma vs fey had a bit of a 1v1 yesterday, but both kind of backed off each other in a strange way, and i could easily see the whole thing as being a somewhat awkward distancing attempt.

gamma+meuh+dunn... eh, maybe possible?? gamma interactions with dunn don't really look paired, and that would mean both dunn partners were bussing him yesterday before the wagon dissolved, im not sure about that. dunn and meuh could easily work as a pair, im just not sure if gamma fits in there. i don't want to rule this one out but i think of these options it seems like the least viable to me

gamma+fey+dunn, slightly more possible imo. fey pushed dwlee in counter to dunn on d2, and again we have the gamma+fey pairing that just feels like it fits in a lot of ways. this would mean gamma has pushed all three of his scum partners at various points though, so eh. maybe? maybe not.

gamma+meuh+fey, very possible. they've pretty consistently been spread out across different wagons, there's no real interactions between them that feel unpartnered, the biggest thing here is fey's push on meuh d2. she wasn't ever really pushing very hard for her, though, and the scumread dropped off and disappeared after a while.

dunn+meuh+fey, hmm, kinda possible. meuh came into yesterday saying that dunn and fey looked like the most likely marci partners. i had the same conclusion, maybe she was just tmi but that feels weird to me. i think its more likely that if meuh is scum, it's with one of dunn/fey, not both. all three of these also jumped onto cakez start of yesterday which is slightly unlikely imo.

[fireisredsir]

so mostly just from looking at how those possible pairings position against each other, interact, and vote, i think a team of gamma/fey + one of meuh/gorilla fits best

this isn't really taking my individual reads into account much, but tbh at this point im not really sure how much i trust myself on those. so maybe trying for a new approach is the way to go

ik that trying for whole team solves is like... not always the smartest way to go, bc sometimes people are just good at distancing or fake clearing associatives, so i don't want to rely on it too heavily. i wanna look more closely at how the game has progressed with these pairings in mind, though

mostly im just kinda wanting to hear input from bell and RR and see what they're thinking

[Rhyme and Reason]

Inclined to say we kill in exactly dunn or meuh today

~Rhyme

[Rhyme and Reason]

Are there any reasons for fire!town aside from the hood having a lot of posts?

~Rhyme

[Fey]

I currently have my Invictus pointed squarely at Gamma and have had him in my solve since yesterday so... weird team concept.

[Dunnstral]

I guess I was wrong on sircakez.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet except by gorilla themself: If there is a roleblocker why was Bell allowed to friendly neighbor on night 1, and Luke fire their vig on night 2, and why was malakittens so quick to be eliminated by the scum team if they could roleblock there and it wasn't even certain that they were a pr at all