Not Quite Normal Multiball II (Game Over)

[Morning Tweet]

Klick has TRed me for a while, actually.
The reason why I said that NKing Klick would seem better was because FL was for either Mena or Nashville being last Werewolf. Keeping FL alive would be helpful in getting Nashville elimmed.
I think that the next Night phase is what Nashville was describing as a gamble. It is that FL suddenly decides that I'm a Werewolf and that he should NK me over your slot.
But if you look at FL's 11529, he shows little to no doubts that I'm Town.

Yes, basically if scum shoot town, they lose in a 2 v 1 v 1 because of no draw. But if they shoot each other, town win. If wolves shoot Flavor, the game is in their own hands. That strictly benefits Freedom as FL was townreading us.

These are conflicting.

Nashville and/or anyone, who did FL most strongly suspect to be the werewolf?

[Freedom]

Klick has TRed me for a while, actually.
The reason why I said that NKing Klick would seem better was because FL was for either Mena or Nashville being last Werewolf. Keeping FL alive would be helpful in getting Nashville elimmed.
I think that the next Night phase is what Nashville was describing as a gamble. It is that FL suddenly decides that I'm a Werewolf and that he should NK me over your slot.
But if you look at FL's 11529, he shows little to no doubts that I'm Town.

Yes, basically if scum shoot town, they lose in a 2 v 1 v 1 because of no draw. But if they shoot each other, town win. If wolves shoot Flavor, the game is in their own hands. That strictly benefits Freedom as FL was townreading us.

These are conflicting.

Nashville and/or anyone, who did FL most strongly suspect to be the werewolf?

FL suspeected Mena, followed by Nashville, followed by our slots.

[Morning Tweet]

Conversely, Nashville, what do you mean when you say "Freedom has to gamble on FL not shooting him because of no draw rules"?

Wolves always kill FL. If Wolves leave FL alive, then the game would become a 2 v 1 v 1 (if FL missed last night). If FL shot town, then Freedom could win. If FL shoots Freedom he loses. Why take the chance when he could kill mafia and miseliminate me?

Killing Flavour Leaf seemed like something that you as a wolf always had to do. Freedom could have killed FL too, yes. But Freedom as a wolf had the extra choice to go to 2v1v1 and hope FL shoots you, no? Who does FL shoot in the 2v1v1 scenario most of the time?

[Morning Tweet]

I don't really have an opinion on how this play looks from Sword!town perspective
I do know Sword's play makes zero sense coming from scum

I also know FL is actively trying to pander to Sword with basically every post at the moment

This is not alignment specific.

Sword is correct in town reading me, and without Sword, I’d have been dead by now.

Freedom-Sword-Myself have essentially been a town block for days now, so Idk why you’re acting like this is new.

I have defended Sword as well as pondered if they could be scum.

@Wolf that isn’t TicTac, so one of Freedom, Nashville, Sword.

I am Mafia. I will shoot Menalque tonight. If Menalque is Wolf, they just shoot me, town victory.



Shoot one of the other townies. Tomorrow, it will be 4 people alive.
1 Maf, 1 wolf, 2 townies.

Force a No Fade by never voting.

Kill off the 2 townies.

I don’t see how this doesn’t draw, tbh.


Now, here’s the thing, wolf.

You shoot me, I’m lying about being Mafia here. ;)

Right before FL dies he seems to favour Freedom as being part of his daylong townblock of [Sword/Freedom/FL] -- no mention of Nash. He knows the werewolf is in Freedom/Nash/Sword but doesn't really really differentiate the three.

[Morning Tweet]

@Sword / Freedom - You wanna just kill Nashville? TicTac voting there means they think they're Mafia or they're a wolf buddy and they're distancing.

Then I just get shot if Nash is a wolf, or I'm cleared if they're Mafia.

I am a bit worried about Nashville potentially being Town but then if both Mena and SoD are Town, then maybe Nashville is scum.
But then, SoD is null for me.

If you, me, and Sword are all town, Nash has to be scum.

TicTac changes right after the Nashville wagon got close to range :lol:

I was just abt to go but i saw these, seems like he favoured Nash although not to the point he couldn't change his mind of course.

From what I've seen it seems like wolf!Nash kills FL 99% of the time, wolf!Freedom kills FL maybe like 75% of the time. If I were a mafia chess engine, i'd rate it as the best kill for either player

But Nash seems more or less locked into it whereas Freedom had the choice to kill Klick and yeet FL next day, whereas i think FL would have had the edge over Nash if Nash spared FL.

[Klick]

Yeeting FL today would never have been an option. 2-1-1 is never a scenario in which town would eliminate anyone.

I think FL legitimately thought Menalque was the wolf and didn't really differentiate between Nashville and Freedom.

[Klick]

Nashville and Freedom have also both generally townread each other prior to this endgame.

[Morning Tweet]

Oh, I didn't really consider FL thinking Mena was the wolf. I suppose it makes more sense to shoot your wolf guess rather than deal with the no elim -> standoff

[Morning Tweet]

Kinda forgot that there's no reason to try and 1v1 during the next day cause town is too short staffed. forgot how to mafia

That does make FL's stated reads a lot less relevant.

Sooo, essentially either Nash or Freedom breached the townblock all game and one's surprised one's faking surprise.

[Morning Tweet]

Nashville, may I ask you something random?
Do you think that I'll pretend to be a VT as a Werewolf PR?
Wouldn't it be easier going along with your results?

So, i see that we have:

Werewolf Goon + Werewolf Mason + Werewolf 1-X Bookie (what is this) + last werewolf

It seems like there's a werewolf PR still left standing, probably, since this team seems weak if they're vanilla. But I don't know what a bookie is.

Isn't that a good reason to pretend to be vanilla -- to avoid claiming a PR? I dunno.

[Morning Tweet]

According to wiki, Bookies guess the following day's nightkill and get a reward (like a nightkill) for getting it correct. But it's only 1 shot, so I don't think that's a terribly strong role.

Hmm, what else. Mafia's power isn't terribly strong either (this is a very day centric setup i can tell!) -- but they still only have 1 vanilla. Intuitively I would have guessed the last werewolf is a mild PR of some kind.

I'm just going to skim through Freedom and Nashville ISOs keeping the werewolves in mind for now


=== werewolves
RCEnigma(catboi) fled N1
bnuuy exiled D6
tictac exiled D7

[Morning Tweet]

I guess if you held onto the Bookie player for a long time it could be pretty strong if it gives a nightkill

[Morning Tweet]

Oh, and Nero Cain/Wallflower/Freedom share the slot. good good

[Morning Tweet]

butterchurn - Moderate scum
Nashville Dreams (Titus & Malakittens) - Moony Town
Cat Scratch Fever - Was lean town but fell down, likely not fault of their own. Memory issue here
Save The Dragons - Strong Town Lean
Toogeloo momo - Strong Town Lean
Sword of Ducks - I personally feel scum. Gamestate town.
cassowary - Who?
Nero Cain Wallflower - Prob town
SCP 682 Tracer Bullet - Second biggest TR
The Keeper - Frustrating as hell
Dunnstral Well Done (Dunnstral & Lukewarm) - Punting but I don't like their repeating of things I already answered but this again could be gamestate.
MegAzumarill - Almost certainly scum.

catboi - Needs to flip soon.

MalcolmTucker - Viggable.

bnuuy - Goal to sort tmo.

tictac

- Likely scum with butter and possibly

catboi.

MonkeyMan576 - When I start to feel town here, they say something icky.
Klick - Need to see more than punish FL.
Enchant - Should be vigged.
mastina - Can't explain without being antitown. Lean town.
Flavor Leaf - Biggest TR
Menalque - Lean town, minor VCA problem.
Ydrasse NorwegianboyEE - Didn't like EE push on me but Ydrasse towned up the slot. Plus wagon reactions suggest Ydrasse town.

This is a near end of day one reads list, with Toog and catboi(RCE) as the first and second primary wagons respectively

[Morning Tweet]

Give me after work to make my Titus case

(as MathBlade is being eliminated)

Hm, i also saw a post where Math said he believed Titus to be off this game. That elim got rushed, although it was a townie that cut MathBlade off ultimately

I'm at day 6. Bnuuy and tictac are now under heavy heavy scrutiny and their lims are comin up

@Klick - where’s your head right now?

Sword of Ducks is very likely town
Menalque is very likely town

Wolves are in {Nashville, Nero Cain, bnuuy, tictac}

I need to look more in-depth before I'm happy to solve within those four.

Klick, I get sorting me but how can you not see that SoD vote as scummy?

Klick, I get sorting me but how can you not see that SoD vote as scummy?

Mmmm...be quiet, I might change it later.

How long was my slot considered as possible scum to you, Nashville?

votecount 6.1

Flavor Leaf (2) | bnuuy, Menalque

Nashville Dreams (1) | Sword of Ducks

Not Voting | Flavor Leaf, tictac, Freedom, Klick, Nashville Dreams

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to politely ask someone to leave.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-06-27 08:31:00).

You can ask STD to confirm that I had called TicTac scum overnight

u can ask meg or klick to confirm that i said u were my #1 scumread and that i was waiting to see if there was a singlekill night.

u say u gated by masons being alive yet u outed the masons day1 for 0 reason.
u say u also gated by 2shot making ur role overcomplicated and weird and also that is the number on concurrent scumkills. and lo there is indeed a kill missing, just like there would be if maf made the kills u claiming.
u HARD defended ench day1, and also informedly(as "informed ability") defended me, yet u voted me, making me think the "defense" of me was cover for defense of enchant.
enchant chose to dusk-kill ydr over u when u had very clearly said u were gonna shoot mastina. that doesn't make sense unless the shooting of mastina was something maf wanted, and mastina was neg-util.
and sure u given excuses and u claimed stuff in monkery all of which sounda to me like u knew which defect in ur story u would have to explain away next.

as 4 math: i don't beilieve that maf would kill conf non-wolf in this gamestate, that's just dumb. imma put zero weight on [redacted] especially when it's not clear what is pr-info and what is conjecture. (my confidence on math reasoning validly even if he does have data is not like 100%)
i get vibes of math pseudoclaiming vig last game tho, so i buy that he thinks the game should now revolve around him tho.

+ mastina using roleblock on 1 of 2 1-shot GS sclaims instead of using it on leaf, who claiming intent to shoot her.

i personally feel like the additional point wasn't needed to make things super obvious.
i have zero faith that leaf gonna be 'taken care of later'. he's gone days and days after he GOT GUILTIED TWICE ON NIGHT 1.

so
VOTE: leaf

tictac coming in with the wagon commit, full send, win attempt for the werewolves. If one townie votes FL, then the last ww can hammer it regardless of stated read.. seems like it could be interesting to see what people (namely the two suspects) say around this area

[Morning Tweet]

here is what freedom (who had just repped in for Nero) and Nash say after tictac's vote:

Based on my read through, I trust FL, Nashville, Klick and SoD.
This leaves a PoE is Menalque, bnuuy and tictac.

By the way, @tictac, could you please link the posts which detailed a guilty on FL?

I don't trust FL. Although wordy, his reads are a pile of omgus.

I do feel parts of the PoE are accurate though. I just am not as certain on SoD.

I think FL mafia, Klick conftown, Freedom probtown

PoE SoD tictac bnuuy Menalque

By the way, @tictac, could you please link the posts which detailed a guilty on FL?

Both klick and mathblade claim FL had a gun I believe

I feel like Nashville had one foot in the door to vote FL (scumreading him) but Nashville does seem to imply not wanting to vote outside of bnuuy/tictac/Mena (suspected wolves)

Mena is advocating for FL's elim but im pretty sure that's just winning for werewolves, correct me if I'm wrong? Well people are saying it's actually 4v3

However if we are limming in a pool of Menalque, bnuuy and tictac.
I would be happier if the order was bnuuy then Menalque then tictac.
With that though, I would like to wait a bit longer before casting my vote.

Why Mena second?

[Morning Tweet]

I haven't decided yet Menalque. Watch my vote if you want.

(Yes I'm conftiwn)

Okay just lmk when

I would like everyone to state their 2 biggest wolf reads.

Don’t really have wolf reads

Klick town, i town, Klick thinks ducks town for some reason so sure, you’re maf, I still think wallflower was town from D1 and that Nero was town, therefore wolves are (bnuuy, tictac, ND) by PoE but I don’t really wolfread any of them on play

I see which way Mena stood then.

[Morning Tweet]

While I agree and would likely go along with the lim of tictac Menalque or Bnnuuy, I don't like being told what to do for the record. Klick dominating today's lim makes it near impossible to investigate Sword and Freedom.

Huh? I noticed Klick advocating to go after wolves (tictac / bnuuy) rather than mafia(FL).

How's that get in the way of Sword and Freedom though

[Morning Tweet]

I would like everyone to legitimately, deeply think about these posts in the context of the rest of SoD's play and tell me what their read is on this behaviour. I'm less interested in a discussion about it influenced by others' opinions, and more interested in everyone's personal opinion on this when they look at it carefully.

TBH, SoD does feel a bit confused.
This could be that they didn't read the mod posts.
However, another theory is that it could be a dumbtell.

I'm the one confused now. You sound like you're arguing for SoD possibly being town, but...

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

SoD's your strongest wolf read -- stronger than tictac here? I don't really see anything you wrote about them up to this point that would suggest that

[Freedom]

Nashville, may I ask you something random?
Do you think that I'll pretend to be a VT as a Werewolf PR?
Wouldn't it be easier going along with your results?

So, i see that we have:

Werewolf Goon + Werewolf Mason + Werewolf 1-X Bookie (what is this) + last werewolf

It seems like there's a werewolf PR still left standing, probably, since this team seems weak if they're vanilla. But I don't know what a bookie is.

Isn't that a good reason to pretend to be vanilla -- to avoid claiming a PR? I dunno.

A Bookie gets a benefit if they guess the elimination which tends to be a 1-Shot killing ability.
And I think that you're right that scum!me would pretend to be a VT to avoid claiming a PR because it makes more sense to do so.

I would like everyone to legitimately, deeply think about these posts in the context of the rest of SoD's play and tell me what their read is on this behaviour. I'm less interested in a discussion about it influenced by others' opinions, and more interested in everyone's personal opinion on this when they look at it carefully.

TBH, SoD does feel a bit confused.
This could be that they didn't read the mod posts.
However, another theory is that it could be a dumbtell.

I'm the one confused now. You sound like you're arguing for SoD possibly being town, but...

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

SoD's your strongest wolf read -- stronger than tictac here? I don't really see anything you wrote about them up to this point that would suggest that

TBH that would be as a result of my distrust of dumbtells. I thought that the confusion was a dumbtell which led directly to me placing them down as a strong SR.

[Freedom]

Mena is advocating for FL's elim but im pretty sure that's just winning for werewolves, correct me if I'm wrong? Well people are saying it's actually 4v3

However if we are limming in a pool of Menalque, bnuuy and tictac.
I would be happier if the order was bnuuy then Menalque then tictac.
With that though, I would like to wait a bit longer before casting my vote.

Why Mena second?

I think that you're right.
And as for Mena second, that was because I had liked tictac more than Mena at that time, mainly because they appeared helpful and responded to my requests like in 11273.

[Nashville Dreams]

While I agree and would likely go along with the lim of tictac Menalque or Bnnuuy, I don't like being told what to do for the record. Klick dominating today's lim makes it near impossible to investigate Sword and Freedom.

Huh? I noticed Klick advocating to go after wolves (tictac / bnuuy) rather than mafia(FL).

How's that get in the way of Sword and Freedom though

Without fear, how could we ever get a genuine reaction at all? Everyone has the same response, voting whomever Klick wanted. So why would Freedom as scum ever feel threatened about being caught when he could just spend the day distancing instead? The game doesn't end until the last scum is eliminated.

[Nashville Dreams]

How long was my slot considered as possible scum to you, Nashville?

Possible. Always. Desired elimination, not really. I checked you n1 and you were vanilla. I have said many times that I didn't want to eliminate my clear, even though it's not a 100% clear. Your name started to come up when the pool shrunk.

~Titus

[Morning Tweet]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

Why am I your lowest opinion?

Forgot to say this before but my reads on you and bnuuy are somewhat interchangeable.
I just distrust dumbtells.

I understand you distrust dumbtells but you can see how placing SoD at the bottom of the list is a bit convenient when you just need to avoid limming a werewolf. Is there a reason in particular you think dumbtells are scum indicative rather than neutral at best?

[Freedom]

Town

Klick
Nashville
Menalque
FL
tictac
bnuuy
SoD

Wolf

These are my current reads.

Why am I your lowest opinion?

Forgot to say this before but my reads on you and bnuuy are somewhat interchangeable.
I just distrust dumbtells.

I understand you distrust dumbtells but you can see how placing SoD at the bottom of the list is a bit convenient when you just need to avoid limming a werewolf. Is there a reason in particular you think dumbtells are scum indicative rather than neutral at best?

I'm not sure if you missed 11424 but it was a formatting mistake and I intended to place bnuuy and tictac at the lowest. Regarding my distrust of dumbtells, it's because in my experience, scum tends to use them to fake towiness as a result of them tending to be viewed as mistakes.