Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Irrelephant11]

Lowell definitely continued to push loft’s elimination *even though* momentum was shifting away from loft/the wagon was stalling. Like at one point on D1 scum!Lowell had to think “I’m bussing no matter what! I WILL kill my teammate even if an easy alternative exists!!”

[Irrelephant11]

Well scratch the “easy alternative” part because I guess Lowell was the alternative? Which is one of CW’s points.

You know what nothing tried nothing gained VOTE: Lowell

[Irrelephant11]

Wait but his D2 is so good ahhhhhhh I’m spinning in circles make it stop

[BlueBloodedToffee]

My initial D2 thoughts based on what I can remember:

Towns: Irrel, Fancy, Kenny
Nulls: BBT, Malcolm, Eira
Scums: Gamma, Mala, CW

Nevermind I see now that was Eira, not kenny. In that case I'll join the wagon, and you can reverse kenny and eira on my previous list.

unvote, vote kenny

???

[Confidently Wrong]

Wait but his D2 is so good ahhhhhhh I’m spinning in circles make it stop

Idt it was a good Day 2? it was following the same d1 formula, push both a partner and a townie. At least from my PoV. It also had 0 logical basis to tie me to Shoshin and I questioned them why they were even considering me as paired with Shoshin. Got no response, obviously.

[Confidently Wrong]

My initial D2 thoughts based on what I can remember:

Towns: Irrel, Fancy, Kenny
Nulls: BBT, Malcolm, Eira
Scums: Gamma, Mala, CW

Nevermind I see now that was Eira, not kenny. In that case I'll join the wagon, and you can reverse kenny and eira on my previous list.

unvote, vote kenny

???

also have not gotten a single answer as to why this happened fwiw.

[Confidently Wrong]

CSF wasn’t vanilla though

oh rofl. townslip haha xD

well they were essentially vanilla so wowee

[Confidently Wrong]

I'll look to see if CSF softed because if thats the case I will drop that as part of the case and the only thing that needs to be resolved is strictly Lowell's thought process.

[Confidently Wrong]

Ok I dont see a soft on my brief skim. I do see what I remember to be a lot of doubt on Lowell's alignment primarily. And lowell immediately on D2 claimed it was some sort of frame job which (lol).

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK but there were 3 scum alive at the time. Why would a Lowell scum read take precedence over a Loftwing scum read for example?

[Eiralox]

Ok Eira - let's lay out the logic here so I can show how ridiculous you are in assuming it is only scummy:

Ok? No. I'm not engaging with you before you adress my various points re: loft, shoshin, fred, irrel, toffee, all the things i've said. That's where my case is, not in arguing semantics. so no im not takin this 2 seriosuly, i've said a bit about you D1/early D2 and that's where i'm at.

You townread someone really hard. like REALLY hard. They're townier than anyone else. You dont know their alignment though, theyre a scum who is fooling you at that very moment. This can be Player A.

Oooh a hypothetical! What fun. Rn I have my townreads. If we somehow get to D4, my townreads, and yes, my Lowell read, can change. I'm not gonna hop onto your desperation wagon, your earlier comments about me having a .... conf bias .... ? Ring especially true to me of you on the chance you are town, which rn i don't care about.

There is a player you scumread really hard for what you believe are good reasons to scumread someone, we can call that Player B. That person is being pushed currently by another one of your townreads, lets call that person Player C. You are sure that person is town but you've never played with them before so you're not quite sure what they're capable of if scum. Let's remind the reader that none of the alignments are known to you at this time.

yeah whatever I'm 100% on board with lowell that it's time to cut out the bullshit. i'm not gonna peddle maybes here but push that scum is in either cw/dunn/toffee and if D4 rolls by i'll recalculate. rn Irrel Malcom and Lowell remain my townlocks, deal with it.

So Player C shifts from player B to Player A in a way that you feel was possibly with intent to dismantle a wagon on scum, and that they were just distancing and got off when it was hot.

It would then be reasonable to think that Player C is potentially mafia with Player B and not be as sure of them as town.


I hope this very simple explaination makes sense to you because I'm reaching my limit.

tl;dr i said i don't care anymore. I'll adress your lowell fluff in my own time.

And just to be clear, i never said you should scumread kenny/dunn above lowell(u said enchant in way above post, which suggests your getting ur info off vc where kittytacky i think incorrectly said lowell votes enchant? cos dunn replaced kenny. anyway....

what I noted that there was that, after you heavy defense of gamma D2, D3 you shifted back to lowelll and.... no one. only now hopping onto toffee. after u voted kenny d2. anyway, long story short, basically you seemed to only consider lowell, as now is sort the case? like sheesh at least be a little uncertain and hunt for other scum cos we have vig? maybe your heart's not in it. but this time im really leaving, gonna spend my time elsewhile, for im getting mean again.

[Eiralox]

Well scratch the “easy alternative” part because I guess Lowell was the alternative? Which is one of CW’s points.

You know what nothing tried nothing gained VOTE: Lowell

unwise

[Confidently Wrong]

I think its crazy that you assume that my scenario refers to you and not Irrelephant like jesus how full of yourself can you be, and thats me saying something.

[Confidently Wrong]

well it does refer to you. you just think you're the wrong player in the scenario. that was me explaining my thought process as if my audience was 5 years old regarding my post stating i wanted to untownlock Irrelephant.

But like considering the thought process of someone believing wrong things is hard, I get it. Only assuming the worst faith thing is super easy.

I was always on Lowell all 3 days. I have been consistent.

And now you're saying I'm on BBT. Tell me - where have I called BBT scum? I have not. I have said I am unhappy with the way they are playing and that I believe it to be pro scum. Crazy, but I think that people playing pro scum don't have to be town. I think you are currently playing pro scum after playing pro town on day 1 and 2 , so there's that.

[Confidently Wrong]

@irrelephant if you want to be a GOAT townie you need to convince eira for me because they are going to bias any argument I make as scum but since youre their top townread outside of enchant, it means nothing.

I can't fucking do this alone. The way I'm playing where I'm sticking out for people I think are town is how town should be playing. Not trying to only push scumreads and nothing else. Defend your fucking townreads or at least shut down bad arguments from townies who are tunneled. I get that was what is being perceived to be done for my Lowell push - but I think I have adequately addressed the points being pushed of them being town by investigating and finding the narrative that fits. Lowell is really strictly a PoE read in that there are points where I can't actively scumread them for. But they're literally not towny over any other player. They've played Pro Town. But Like I said in my last post playing Pro Scum doesnt make you scum, on the flip side, playing Pro Town does not make you Town. Because Scum want to blend in they will naturally do Pro Town moves. Especially if they are perceived to be the one who has to go deep.


Idfk. I will try to do a reset on my reads again tomorrow if I can or this evening and redo them but this is like the 3rd time I'm doing that and I doubt my conclusions will shift.

[Lowell]

Yeah cw’s ISO is a hilarious comedy of being wrong, so again I’m not that concerned one way or the other about his tunneling me. He’s just a high volume, basically bad town player or a scum player committed to a strategy. Neither would surprise.

To believe I’m scum you have to believe I bussed way harder than any scum would have to on D1, then immediately turned around and nked the player I had been tunneling all day, then again pivoted to push the kill on gamma. My goal is to bus all my teammates during the day and then draw all attention to myself with night kills? I’m not going to tell anyone they can’t do something insane just for the lolz in a game of mafia but I’m not going to pretend to take seriously the pretzel logic that points to me.

CW, on the other hand, immediately embraced the loft claim, tried hard to “whatabout…” and stall the gamma kill, and has bullying his completely wrong views the entire game. He’s pure volume and actively trying to derail everything good that has happened. Scum or town we’re better off without him.

[Eiralox]

10/10

[Lowell]

CWs tunneling in some way points to him not being scum (I feel like scum would benefit from being cagier and keeping options open), but does make it easier for the scum to hid behind by sowing doubt where none needs to be. Like whatever irrel is doing, for example.

[Confidently Wrong]

wild how a 2nd vote made lowell post more analysis then they have all game. lets see if the trend continues.

i do believe you bussed harder than scum would have to d1 because scum were constantly on the chopping block in a world where you are scum, so have fun.

and yes scum NK players they tunnel all day all the fucking time don't try to give me that nice try tho

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell, 1803 if you could please

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW, 1809 if you could please.

[Confidently Wrong]

OK but there were 3 scum alive at the time. Why would a Lowell scum read take precedence over a Loftwing scum read for example?

i dont understand the question

[Confidently Wrong]

btw i am one of the best reevaluators on this site, if I am wrong on something, I will always eventually move to the right answer. the fact I was not in fact able to reevaulate that lowell is town, should mean that they are scum. it is one of my greatest strengths as town and it wins me games. I get killed before limlo often even if i just strongarmed a town elimination. because many players know that I will be able to properly readjust and power through and solve the game. I am very rarely wrong by the time I reach endgame.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Why does Lowell just overrule his team in terms of having to kill the person who is scum reading him. Instead of say the person who was scum reading Loft who was in a much more dangerous position of potentially being elimmed on D2.

Then, not only does he get his kill, he then starts to bus his buddy for absolutely no reason. In what world does scum!Lowell think he can get to end game here?

[Confidently Wrong]

That is to say, I may look like I am just tunneling Lowell here, but there have been moments where i have reexamined things and built upon existing arguments or scrapped old arguments and built up new ones based on new evidence. Here is where I am at now;

Enchant
Irrelephant
Eira(if vig, if not vig moves down below BBT)
BBT
MalcomTucker
Dunnstall
___
Lowell

malcom prob should be higher but recency bias