Large Normal 240: Baileyposting [game over]

[Vivax]

VOTE: Unsure

Likable counterwagon. The predecessor to the slot had enough scummy stuff going for themselves.

[Unsure]

I've been waiting for this Greeting, because you're probably town based on Meg's flip so I'll try to woo your confidence here. I'm not scum.

Your point above where you think me and my predecessor agree on stuff? It doesn't mean a thing. I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is scum-indicative, but it's literally just the same as having two slots say the same stance.

Reason/explanation? bugspray is sus and MT is sus and we both read the same game and we both reached the same conclusions. Crosscheck that with the other slots that have also observed the same thing that I have, and then logically deduce if it's because I have a town POV alternate to yours that others might also have.

Have you looked at the content of my posts? Do you have anything to say about it? If nothing else, I really think MT is flipping scum anyway and you're saying we can't both be scum. Suggestion: Help me flip him first, then let's come back to this and decide if you still want to have this conversation.

[Crescent]

My kitty wasn't feeling well yesterday and it took my head right out of it. Only looks like I missed 80 or so posts though?

And looking at the chart, Lee hasn't even posted once today after being prodded twice yesterday? zzzzzz

<3 All things kitty.

[Andante]

Oh no!!! I hope kitty is ok!!!

[Lowell]

Oh I just now realized unsure replaced fancy. I'd been conflating unsure and unowen in my head. Fancy was bad yesterday so I'm good with the unsure wagon if no one joins me for prince.

Probably goes without saying but I realize I didn't say it earlier, I buy bugs' claim and they're town for me. They are correct that I don't have a gun, and it's hard to imagine scum taking the chance on a fakeclaim given the likelihood of there being pro-town players with guns.

fixing pronouns ~D

[Datisi]

this is another general moderator reminder to be respectful of your fellow players and make sure to use their correct pronouns.

[Lowell]

Sorry, bugs. I should have said they are town for me and they are correct that I don't have a gun. My sincere apologies.

[Crescent]

I'm kind of thinking the reason I was townreading PookyTheMagicalBear is useless due to WIFOM.

I don't know if this was intended to be a dumbtell, but I am having trouble believing that someone who early on was reading carefully enough to be noting down interactions as non-partnered and correcting the mod on votecounts would not notice who the nightkill was.

VOTE: Fredrick

I agree with Crescent's thoughts so far for the most part. I think it's fine to trust her as town for now. I expect that she is a pretty good scum player who would be willing and able to control the game, but I think especially her frustration near the end of day yesterday at the lack of action feels uninformed. Scum would know that it could look bad in the face of an imminent scumflip. I also think that the somewhat shaky townreading of Lowell for being active near end of day is the specific brand of not quite rational play that comes from town, letting your emotional take on the game influence your reads.

I would be fine with a Malcolm wagon as well.

Depends on the playerbase and, my mood, and other factors. My last scum game, I replaced in day 1 (Not realizing I was replacing the guy who was known for always replacing out day 1 as scum at the time), and played back a bit early because I knew the replacement meta was coming right for me. My partners were a guy who hated me for being female and refused to try (There's a few such guys there), and a first-game ever newbie who was totally overwhelmed. I had to play on the backfoot for a while, and town did me a solid with a terrible early hammer on a stronger town player day 2, followed by a scan on useless inactive misogynist night 2 (You scan people who are hardest to read, not people you already think are scum. This is the common mistake scanners make, and primarily why I do not fear them when I am scum.), which was claimed right away on day 3 and effectively let me coast through the day. I killed that specific VT player on night 3, as he was the only

player

in the game I feared, effectively letting that scanner clear a town in the process. I took the game over on day 4 (despite the 3 town PRs, 2 of which were claimed) and never looked back. As far as not fearing power goes, I had a strong scanner read on someone night 1 and roleblocked them every night of the game. He was indeed a scanner, finally claimed day 5, and promptly became the game winning scumhammer.

The best way to play scum is to treat the game like chess. The player I'm effectively a protege of once had a game where, after day 1, he on a whim decided to predict every kill and every voteoff that would occur for the rest of the game, in the order they happened. The game ended on day 5, and

all

his predictions ended up correct, and he didn't even go out of his way to make the specific voteoffs happen. Oh do I sometimes wish I had that kind of swag.

By the way, if you put someone at L-1, declare it. The person who hammers won't hammer without realising that way.

Before voting, check if the player you are voting is at L-1. If they are, declare intent before hammering.

If a hammer without intent happens again, I'll be looking into whoever hammers.

I don't even usually vote until like 3 days are left in the day, I just found Meg's outright vanishing from the game so obnoxious that I didn't care. In 2272 I unvoted someone I had a strong scum read on with ~1 1/2-2 days left in the day just because I felt he was getting votes too fast. The difference is, he was actually active.

Honestly I feel like I feel like not much actually happened in there. Mostly it's just been people I think are probably town going in circles, primarily because...

Prince has exactly 1 post all day and it's a new vote on Fred. MT's has only 3, and they do nothing for me. Unsure has 4, and they barely do anything for me. Fred's posts do worse than nothing.

He naked votes Firebringer in #893 despite not mentioning him in a single post since post #79

. Why? The vote is completely out of context and the only post he makes after is to play game meta. He has also given no reason for claiming a townread on me despite it being in his first post of the day.

Also Dwlee doesn't even have a post and needs to be prodded... Again.

[Crescent]

Oh no!!! I hope kitty is ok!!!

She's my tiny cuddly stalker but she's also 18, so.. When it starts going downhill it could go downhill quickly.

And the fabric of my personality is gonna implode for a while when it gets to that point. She's been sleeping in her box so far today.

[Crescent]

Actually it's worse.

Fred hasn't mentioned MT in a single content post

the entire game

He is once again leading a baseless wagon against the top train while avoiding talking about the top train in any capacity. It's a repeat of the exact behavior I scumread him for yesterday.

[MalcolmTucker]

By the way, if you put someone at L-1, declare it.

The person who hammers won't hammer without realising that way.

Before voting, check if the player you are voting is at L-1. If they are, declare intent before hammering.

If a hammer without intent happens again, I'll be looking into whoever hammers.

To be fair, was my bad, I should have checked. But all worked out in the end.

[MalcolmTucker]

So i am going back on unsure being a buss from meg. Looks like fancy was wrong town. I could still see it being scum but leaving it at the door. Calling unsure town for now

Bugspray was a counter. Seems like a designated misyeet. Claiming gunsmith out of nowhere. Who cares.

Fred is a weird one.

I still don't understand why fred continues to get traction and everyone sees slot as scum or gets in lists everywhere. I am not saying ohh fred town, i am going "I don't know why this slot gets so much attention".

I should dig into it to get a big brain opinion.


Anyways if i was yeeting someone at this moment it would be Prince

This is a bit of an odd post. I don't necessarily completely SR Fred but the case for them so far seems pretty clear.

This reads like a weak attempt at defending Fred that can't necessarily find a proper reason to TR them so tries to shade the case entirely without explaining why we shouldn't SR Fred.

Really? This accusation is scummy. And you should be able to see his point from how many peeps tried to murder Fred D1.

Do you disagree with Owen that Firebringer is cleared from Meg flip then?

Taken another look at Firebringer's slot and yes, almost certainly town. Hadn't paid much attention to them but reads on Meg were pretty solid and consistent from early on in the game - enough consistency for me that it's unlikely to be a bus or an attempt at distancing.

[MalcolmTucker]

Nevermind I see it.

VOTE: meg

This is an ISO read of someone who wanted to have a fun game but is disappointed to have drawn scum.

Malcolm also a good vote. Chipping at the edges of ideas without ideas.

Wasn't too keen on Lowell D1 but also almost close to confirmed town for me from the info we have now.

[MalcolmTucker]

Actually it's worse.

Fred hasn't mentioned MT in a single content post

the entire game

He is once again leading a baseless wagon against the top train while avoiding talking about the top train in any capacity. It's a repeat of the exact behavior I scumread him for yesterday.

I'm very much not scum although appreciate I don't look particularly good here. Fred very much could be mafia though but wouldn't there be better places to push than Firebringer? As has been pointed out above, it's not a good place to push given they're almost certainly not going to get voted out following Meg's flip.

[Crescent]

The problem is more Fred has a consistent pattern of avoiding top votes for no good reason. He either doesn't want to bus, or doesn't want to be caught voting off town. Either way, it's inherently very scum slanted to be doing this, especially as a pattern. Fred is not hunting for scum. Fred has not hunted for scum all game. What he's doing is

avoiding

the people who actually are.

[Crescent]

Reminder: He attempted to lead 4 baseless countertrains against Meg yesterday, but never actually gave a read on Meg himself as he was doing this. Now he has a random baseless vote, but is not giving any read of you.

This is a player who doesn't seem to even be slightly interested in actually working with the players who are trying to solve. All he does is throw votes around randomly and hope people follow. This doesn't help town solve in any conceivable way aka it's not a town mindset.

[Crescent]

And yes he did give a retroactive read on Meg much later, but this was after he'd already tried to vote 4 other people while refusing to give a read of Meg. Cleaning that up so it doesn't get nitpicked.

Anyways, he is by an

wide

margin my #1 scumread. I won't say MT votes are terrible though, as he's on my list of potential scum. I just don't find the argument there nearly as obvious.

[UNOwen]

I ignored this question before, because the answer to it is in the very post you quoted.

No it isn't, but ok.

[UNOwen]

Wasn't too keen on Lowell D1 but also almost close to confirmed town for me from the info we have now.

Is that just for the early vote, do you disagree with 866?

[UNOwen]

VOTE: Firebringer

What's your reasoning, and why not give it in this post?

[UNOwen]

Don't see the case against FancyPants/Unsure. FancyPants was a little LAMISTy, but that felt like it was his personality. The only thing that looked out of place to me was his concern over a non-elimination which could be explained as him skimming over and misreading Crescent's 449. I think his reaction to Meg's vote better fits as town reacting to a town read acting scummy than as scum reacting to a scum buddy acting scummy. He probably would have used Meg's vote against him as an opportunity to distance rather than doubling down on defending Meg if they were both scum.

[Prince of Paterson]

Don't really think that this is the approach MalcolmTucker takes to the day if he did intentionally hammer a scum partner. If he did that, he would have been expecting to get some credit for it, but here he seems almost apologetic, and I believe him that he didn't know it was the hammer. I also like the way he reassessed after reading Firebringer's ISO and took back his suspicion there. It weakens him a bit to do so, in a position where he's already vulnerable. As scum I would expect him to try to more confidently push in some chosen direction. Making a post calling someone out, experiencing some light pushback for it, and folding immediately will often be jumped on by town and scum alike, so I'm inclined to think instead that it's just the way his opinions naturally evolved because it gains him no advantages.

I don't really support the Malcolm wagon anymore and much prefer Fredrick.

[Greeting]

If

MalcolmTucker

had jumped on

Unsure

or

Frederick

right now, I would start second guessing my judgement. But this is accused townie behavior in my opinion.

[Vivax]

If

MalcolmTucker

had jumped on

Unsure

or

Frederick

right now, I would start second guessing my judgement. But this is accused townie behavior in my opinion.

Coming around to that as well. It's just hard with so many probable townies playing deliberately low info.
Pooky's LUMP legacy seems decent though idk about Lowell.

[Greeting]

I've been waiting for this Greeting, because you're probably town based on Meg's flip so I'll try to woo your confidence here. I'm not scum.

Your point above where you think me and my predecessor agree on stuff? It doesn't mean a thing. I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is scum-indicative, but it's literally just the same as having two slots say the same stance.

Reason/explanation? bugspray is sus and MT is sus and we both read the same game and we both reached the same conclusions. Crosscheck that with the other slots that have also observed the same thing that I have, and then logically deduce if it's because I have a town POV alternate to yours that others might also have.

Have you looked at the content of my posts? Do you have anything to say about it? If nothing else, I really think MT is flipping scum anyway and you're saying we can't both be scum. Suggestion: Help me flip him first, then let's come back to this and decide if you still want to have this conversation.

Quoting this post so that you know that I indeed read your posts and that I remember your earlier question. Although I think you're scum and therefore I do not trust you, there is no harm in everyone seeing all the evidence that is out there.

I can understand that taking the blame for FancyPants isn't a great situation to be in and you can do pretty much nothing about it. But let me tell you that your ISO isn't very good either. You named

Meg

a suspect in 636 and several times later, and in spite of that you never cast a vote on them. This is scum behavior - making good observations, but never acting on them. Scums do this so that in case there is a red flip, they can always bring up their past good observations and make themselves look cleaner. However, reads matter far less than actions and in reality your actions did not bring us closer to a red flip on Day 1.

Your "suspicion" of

Crescent

is a book scum tell, called trying to discredit obvtown people for bad reasons. I see no universe in which

Crescent

is mafia, and you seem to be the only player pursuing her with a flimsy explanation (769).

All this, plus stuff I mentioned earlier regarding

bugspray

and

MT

is pretty damning, and enough for me to want your flip today.