Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[Dunnstral]

It kind of is because you were scum reading me at end of D1 and nothing really happened D2 that should have changed that

Happy to vote you if it comes to it. Kenny and his replacement have both continued to look bad whereas your interventions today have been marginally better.

Can you point out how I have continued to look bad?

[Dunnstral]

For that matter how has Kenny looked bad?

[Lowell]

Sure. All of your posts are either “excuse me can you tell me why I’m scum” like that one, or thin halfhearted “hmm let’s think about this” without taking any kind of stand. Your previous (to this) post of 1653 being as good an example as any. Here you’re saying it’s “notable” that the two scum didn’t vote for me (out of 12 players?) for… what reason? Previous post to that is a bunch of color-coded nonsense nominally designed to look like you’re analyzing votecounts. There’s others if I need go on. Honestly your whole vibe is “oh shucks why you suspicious of little old me” while trying to keep various different pots cooking on low. You’re hoping a better positioned player will save you.

[Confidently Wrong]

Kenny was pushing both Loft and Shoshin early day 1 so by the same logic used to townread Lowell one would also townread Kenny.

Dunns what's your view now on the gamestate? I want you to do some work yourself if you please, like some interpretations or analysis

[Dunnstral]

I think the poe is probably fine, even if I get eliminated. I do think avoiding to eliminate the people at the top of your reads is enough to win this (I also don't think it is irrelephant)

[Confidently Wrong]

Whats the PoE according to you though, its a hot debate on some people.

[Dunnstral]

Enchant
Irrelephant
Eira

I think leaving out these 3 names gets us the win, and I don't think the last mafia can kill them all fast enough.

Don't really think it is you but your name seems relevant this game so far

[Confidently Wrong]

Enchant
Irrelephant
Eira

I think leaving out these 3 names gets us the win, and I don't think the last mafia can kill them all fast enough.

Don't really think it is you but your name seems relevant this game so far

Listen...................

[Confidently Wrong]

Get me a 3 person PoE by clearing more slots. The more you show work the more it should ease scumreads against you.

[Confidently Wrong]

Also i know i haven't commented on it but i have this feeling lowell now with pressure is trying to mimic what im doing to nullify the towniness of it to save themselves idk how to explain it just feels out of the blue plus none of the posts actually explained how several of his reads moved with no reason for them to move between those points.

[Lowell]

CW: post more please

Also CW: hmmm you posted more. SUSPICIOUS!

[Confidently Wrong]

CW: post more please

Also CW: hmmm you posted more. SUSPICIOUS!

its about the content of your posts. bud. you didnt explain any thing that was asked to be explained. you chose to position yourself in a way that was clearly being perceived as towny by others.

[Irrelephant11]

Lowell pretend you think BBT’s tone is null instead of towny and tell me how you read his alignment and why

Consider it an exercise in helping me get my head on straight

[Confidently Wrong]

I'm going to do an exercise and try to go through lowell's ISO and find reasons to townread them and make a list. I ask people who are townreading the slot to do a similar exercise and look for reasons to scumread them. Its an exercise called "trustfalls" and "distrustfallls" I've learned from my home site of epicmafia that has helped reeval. I'm also rechecking malcom because we haven't heard from them in a while and their posts this phase were .. unimpressive. I am like 90% sure that I did this earlier and found them spewed town but I'm going to dig deeper and see if it was definitely the case because I am seeing some town things peeking thru on Lowell but I want to be .. sure. Dunns kinda not doing work I'm asking them to properly is not helping because I wanted them to narrow down the PoE as much as possible and show what they thought about people, like explain what they saw that spews X person townie, etc. rather than just whatever it is they did. I'm still confident on BBT town though I think theyre kinda obvtown in a way that is hard to explain this day phase and I lowkey think theyre one of the townier slots despite their anti town plays in the game.

[Confidently Wrong]

If you're town lowell, this is exactly what I meant when I said I was one of the best reevaluators on this site. I do not simply stick to a conclusion always, I may be hesitant to abandon one, but when I see something new happen I make sure I double check things. Well this is addressed even if you are scum but its an appeal to a town lowell.

I don't just sit down and do nothing even if I think the game is solved because I play to win very seriously as this is my primary hobby after all and I take pride in it.

I'm going to try to metadive Kenny slot too if i can. Here's a to do list that I ask people to hold me accountable for:

1. Trustfall Lowell(find reasons to townread him and make a list of them)
2. Reread Malcom and reeval if they're really town or not.
3. Look through Kenny meta and compare it to this game. Also maybe look at Dunn meta as well.

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: kenny. It's him or CW and I'm tired of arguing with CW.

@KittyTacky I think Lowell is voting for Dunnstral?

Fixed.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

CW is giving off serious LAMIST vibes right now

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Lowell you didn't answer my last post!

Dunn refusing to put work in. How fun.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry been busy, will catch up on recent posts.

[Eiralox]

Sorry been busy, will catch up on recent posts.

lovely hope to hear from u soon

[Lowell]

Lowell pretend you think BBT’s tone is null instead of towny and tell me how you read his alignment and why

Consider it an exercise in helping me get my head on straight

Mostly null, really. In ISO there's not much there, and in general I think he inserts himself in more-or-less beneficial ways. In particular his reactions to the loft claim don't seem like they came from someone who helped coordinate the loft claim. WIFOM, I suppose. Not at all married to this read but I'd probably lean town. Dunn looks worse for me still, and perhaps CW or Malcom.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry been busy, will catch up on recent posts.

lovely hope to hear from u soon

I think your case on CW a few pages back is pretty solid to be honest, it's given me more confidence in where I was before after some doubts.

I don't think Lowell's responses have been pretty great - I'd have liked to have seen a more proactive effort from them to towncase themselves, but I also feel like scum Lowell would perhaps be more pushed to make said towncase if they were scum given I'd likely be on their side.

I also appreciate the risk of getting too actively involved in an argument with CW where it ends up just taking up pages and pages without the game progressing and nothing happening expect lots of doubt being sowed.

VOTE: Confidently Wrong

[MalcolmTucker]

Eira im going to be brutally honest. you are not a player who as far as I can tell is some sort of mafia prodigy who has way better reads than other people.

If you're along on your island you are probably wrong. Just like how I was wrong alone on my island on Loftwing. You won't listen to that because it's coming from your super duper confident scumread of yours but its the fucking truth lmao and its extremely frustrating to argue with you because like i mentioned before you are both confbiasing your conclusion and working backwards and also refusing to acknowledge logic that opposes your view.

Posts like this are a massive red flag for me, for example. Note that none of this is actually an evidence-based attempt to change Eira's mind based on the state of the game - it's solely an attempt from CW at making themselves look like the only player who can confidently read the game so that other townies are either wary to scumread them as a result, or feel silly for doing so in the first place.

I think with a larger scum team still remaining CW would perhaps be more conciliatory in an attempt to genuinely get townies onside, but some of these posts reek of frustration in what has undoubtedly been a very frustrating game for scum, and a forceful last ditch effort to stay in the game at all costs is perhaps now a more viable approach for CW than playing a more methodical game.

[MalcolmTucker]

I'm going to do an exercise and try to go through lowell's ISO and find reasons to townread them and make a list. I ask people who are townreading the slot to do a similar exercise and look for reasons to scumread them. Its an exercise called "trustfalls" and "distrustfallls" I've learned from my home site of epicmafia that has helped reeval. I'm also rechecking malcom because we haven't heard from them in a while and their posts this phase were .. unimpressive.

I am like 90% sure that I did this earlier and found them spewed town but I'm going to dig deeper and see if it was definitely the case because I am seeing some town things peeking thru on Lowell but I want to be .. sure.

Dunns kinda not doing work I'm asking them to properly is not helping because I wanted them to narrow down the PoE as much as possible and show what they thought about people, like explain what they saw that spews X person townie, etc. rather than just whatever it is they did. I'm still confident on BBT town though I think theyre kinda obvtown in a way that is hard to explain this day phase and I lowkey think theyre one of the townier slots despite their anti town plays in the game.

I've had a busy few days and been a bit disengaged so apologies for that, I appreciate I've not contributed as much as I'd have hoped to on this turn.

I'm not sure how you'd be able to read my ISOs/interactions and come back with anything other than solid town. I was the first player Shoshin pushed. I then pushed back at Shoshin and hinted they might be scum because it was a lazy and incoherent push. I then later pushed Loftwing. We know Gamma/Shoshin bussed on Loftwing's slot when it came to the vote. A scumteam of Loftwing/Gamma+Shoshin/myself would basically rely on all three scumteam members regularly pushing each other.

[MalcolmTucker]

Lowell definitely continued to push loft’s elimination *even though* momentum was shifting away from loft/the wagon was stalling. Like at one point on D1 scum!Lowell had to think “I’m bussing no matter what! I WILL kill my teammate even if an easy alternative exists!!”

You were completely right here before switching onto the vote for Lowell. Lowell not only wanted to vote for Loftwing but actively encouraged us to finalise the hammer at one point. That moves from bussing to active self-sabotage for me given the clear, eventual scum plan was for Lowell to claim a role. Lowell's play as scum only makes sense if there'd been a fairly weak vote which either remained there without much comment, or a vote that was quickly removed.