LOST (Game Over)

[butterflies]

were scum that comfortable with rodens reads..?

does roden even have reads? all i remember was him defending drap.

I've had scum reads but pretty much all of them already flipped or did something to turn my read around on them. For instance, I also was paranoid about Pooky, and thought maybe him and OTH made a big brain play by intentionally getting Luke killed and then revealing that Luke enabled the scum Venge kill to clear themselves of any suspicion. Because why would scum intentionally kill off a player that granted them a huge advantage and then reveal that advantage to everyone later?

But uh, then Pooky died before me...so that's kinda impossible now...

Though I do find it interesting that Pooky was killed so late into the game, and after my Mason partner too.

Gonna be reading over some stuff but I think we just kill Johnny today, Pooky's death kinda heavily incriminates him

But like, let's not rush the vote this time

does it? i really want johnny to be town honestly, to the point that its not even logical. but like i think any kill could be framed as "oh that incriminates johnny"
like has anyone here townread the dude for the past five days? litearlly anyone could die and you could find a post calling johnny scum
like could he be scum? yeah, but this isnt the reason.

For the most part, enough people have been town reading him and been against voting him out for the last five days. I didn't even have a good reason to want to keep him around, I just thought that he was fun to play with and liked his vibes.

The reason I think Pooky's death implicates scum!Johnny is because Pooky was a Cop who had a lot of good reasons to be town read by everyone, and most of the suspicion against him was paranoia that he was still alive really late into the game and that he was making pushes on mis-elims. But the moment he seems ready to take out Johnny next, he dies. You also have to take into account that he was probably the most influential player left in the game, so killing Pooky is the most logical choice for scum!Johnny.

And if Johnny is town...why doesn't scum just leave Pooky alive to lead another mis-elim on town!Johnny? Taking Pooky into ELO after that + all of the paranoia building in the background around him would've made him the ideal scapegoat.

These are all extremely good points, except for one, who is who is Johnny’s buddy? And you’re right. Pooky kill does look horrible for Johnny but you need to think why Pooky and not you?

BB, Pooky, OtH and myself were set on limming Johnny today, so how does killing Pooky actually help him? Am I really overthinking this? It just seems so fucking stupid if he’s scum here. If there was only one scum left, I’d probably just say, Johhny lim probably wins us the game but we know he has a buddy and that’s why getting this vote correct is such a big deal.

If I can be convinced on Johnny!scum I’ll revote him obviously but if he’s town, I think we likely lose, so I just really want this vote to really be thought through. I just don’t want us to miselim whomever.

[butterflies]

johnny why do u even think im scum lol
i thought u would be more wary considering the mini normal : 3

If you think Johnny is town than why are you still voting him?

[butterflies]

johnny why do u even think im scum lol
i thought u would be more wary considering the mini normal : 3

If you think Johnny is town than why are you still voting him?

[butterflies]

Stupid MS is being buggy again. :/

[Off The Hook]

Heya
I’m keeping up, I don’t know if it’s 100% needed rn but I have what I would call a good reason to write us off as possible scum
Also, when it comes to possible Johnny partners, I don’t think there’s anyone directly connected to him but out of butterflies/Noraa/MLB I think MLB is the most likely scum
I think it’s a bit odd the the pair of MLB+ND39 (she’s the constant in that slot) has gone untouched especially with butterflies being a generally uncontested TR from what I recall (Drapion being an outlier). I recall Nancy saying Klick was towny in their hood so maybe she’s been kept for being pocketed

~GE

[Noraa]

god i already know this is gonna be one of those games where i get behind and never get caught up again. ugh. something that just hit me in the face was a johnny-butterflies team. i fucking dont know at this point. everything is making me paranoid. hell you could probably convince me that the game is so bastard a mason is scum right now.

like butterflies backing off johnny is so weird to me. my brain just keeps screaming oh my fucking god butterflies thought johnny was doomed and wanted cred but now that johnny wagon isnt going flash, butterflies wants to keep him. but then every time im like ugh johnny might be town and if i think too hard im like no gamestate means he's probably scum so them im like huh maybe butterflies feels this way too. but then my brain goes back to the first argument and its like i solved the game! and then im like wait but what if ....? nancy can you just not reply to this for a bit btw? i need to let this float around for a bit

Why is it weird Noraa? I don’t know what Johnny’s going to flip. Are you convinced he’s scum here because I’m not and if he’s town, then we get two town and two scum tomorrow and Idk if scum’s wincon is parity or killing all the townies but in any case, we absolutely can’t afford to rush this vote - which is what you claimed to have wanted.

I’m saying I’m not confident Johnny’s scum anymore and you should realize that scum!me wouldn’t gaf about that. Like it’s almost like you want to sr me no matter what I do here.

I’m not confident on Johnny’s alignment, so I think it would be seriously fucking stupid to rush this vote.

Also, Johnny supposedly kills Pooky why? to avoid getting run up? But Pooky died and Johhny still got put up to e-1, so if Johnny!scum actually killed Pooky, how did it help him?

Also, Johhny made me question an assumption I had that scum was obviously going to bus Johnny but I realized from my scumgames that I would only bus if my buddy was dead in the water scum, so I think that it’s suboptimal for scum to bus here if Johnny is in fact scum. It’s entirely possible that I’m also wrong but I have enough doubt to think that I could very possibly be right and as idiotic as Drap’s read on me was, he was right on Rad and yeah, I think it’s possible that Johhny could possibly be a miselim here.

my point was if you were scum with johnny, you wouldn't want him dead. i never said rush this vote

i literally auhhh you're listing the reasons i think you're scum as reasons that you are town. i really cant explain how much your posts make my scumdar go off. im trying so damn hard to just think like ok what would town nancy do? probably the same thing; ok then this isnt ai but i literally i just cant. like
scum wants to bus johnny. yes, thats why your extremely confident push on johnny that opened this day looks weird now that you've retracted it since no one has hammered.
i mention keeping the thread open a bit longer and you immediately unvote. i just dont feel like you would unvote as town. i dont feel like you would backtrack as town. his recent posts shouldn't result in a backtrack from one of your tunnels. I don't think I've ever seen you backtrack a tunnel before as town. The fact that this came right after i said hey guys slow down makes me feel like I gave you a reason to back track. And then the fact that you're not offering reads and basically just asking people to give suggestions for a new elimination just make my scumdar jump up and down and scream.

sigh. and then after writing all this, im like fuck if im scumreading nancy this much nancy is town right. i hate it here.

[butterflies]

I am town Noraa and why wouldn’t I unvote if I have doubts on if Johnny’s actually scum here. I’m still not convinced either way.

Can you give an opinion on other people’s posts? I already know I’m town so it would really help for you to help me solve other slots. Thanks.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Why is it weird Noraa? I don’t know what Johnny’s going to flip. Are you convinced he’s scum here because I’m not and if he’s town, then we get two town and two scum tomorrow and Idk if scum’s wincon is parity or killing all the townies but in any case, we absolutely can’t afford to rush this vote - which is what you claimed to have wanted.

So. I was thinking about this post and realized you just miscounted the players? Or do you know something I don't?

[butterflies]

Why is it weird Noraa? I don’t know what Johnny’s going to flip. Are you convinced he’s scum here because I’m not and if he’s town, then we get two town and two scum tomorrow and Idk if scum’s wincon is parity or killing all the townies but in any case, we absolutely can’t afford to rush this vote - which is what you claimed to have wanted.

So. I was thinking about this post and realized you just miscounted the players? Or do you know something I don't?

Aren’t there six of us left? Us, Roden, you, Noraa, BB, OtH. Yeah that’s six, so after an elim, 5 right? Then an bk, 4, so that’s why I say, it’s important to get this right.

Oh wait, MB is 7. I’m an idiot.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Lol here's my best town leader:


AHEM

Does anyone think Hook is town? Furthermore, does anyone have any thoughts on whether or not BB and Hook are partners? Because I think that's our answer.

[Noraa]

I dont have thoughts on Hook or BB which is strange since i normally SR gamma and marcistar. could just be that ive been preoccupied with butterflies. idk about bb since idk if they're an alt or what.

[JohnnyFarrar]

It's penguin

[Best Bird]

tbf I’m cephenguinwarm, but Luke checked out because he started to contemplate whether or not I was scum since all of his scum reads flipped town + has a bias toward hard scum reading noraa and has scum read every posts she’s made so far. So as he said “I’m dead.”

[butterflies]

I dont have thoughts on Hook or BB which is strange since i normally SR gamma and marcistar. could just be that ive been preoccupied with butterflies. idk about bb since idk if they're an alt or what.

Well. it would really help me if you did because I think you’re town and that’s another thing I’m liking about Johnny because I trust Roden the most obviously followed by you and MB and Johnny seems to be mindmelding with me on that.

[Noraa]

why does everyone think im a she? best bird is a hydra???? also yeah lukewarm is ass at reading me.

[Noraa]

I dont have thoughts on Hook or BB which is strange since i normally SR gamma and marcistar. could just be that ive been preoccupied with butterflies. idk about bb since idk if they're an alt or what.

Well. it would really help me if you did because I think you’re town and that’s another thing I’m liking about Johnny because I trust Roden the most obviously followed by you and MB and Johnny seems to be mindmelding with me on that.

so you think the scum team is bb/hook? you used to hard townread hook. i hope you understand why im finding your 360s suspicious as hell

[butterflies]

I don’t know Noraa, I’m asking you YOUR opinion. I’m trying to figure this out, which is why I want to know what YOU think.

I do know that neither OtH’s nor BB’s reaction is what I expected from either of them. I expected both to hardpush Johnny but neither has really commented at all on that. I find that curious considering both are still voting him. What do YOU make of it?

I am not going to continue to argue with you about your read on me because it’s not really helping me at all. I’m trying to figure out who the last two scums are and since I already know it’s not me. continuing to beat this dead hotse with you is pointless.

I want yours and MB’s reads on both of them. The only one who’s actually helping me with that is Roden.

I do believe that BB is being truthful about Luke however, which tells us really nothing otherwise.

[butterflies]

I also didn’t expect Drap to flip town after lying about DNA and insanely deathtunnelling me the way he did and I was also paranoiaing on Pooky, which MB can validate because I posted in my hood post-Drap flip that I thought it was Pooky/Johnny but the more Johnny posts, the less confident I feel in him being scum, so do you not seriously expect me to not try to reacess?

I was wrong on Drap and my Pooky paranoia was obviously wrong, would you seriously not expect me to question my reads? I’m slightly paranoid on EVERYONE here except Roden and that includes you but I think the reasons I hard tr Taly still hold and you do sound like you’re genuinely trying to solve me but that doesn’t change the fact that you continuing to focus only on me isn’t frustrating as hell because all it tells me is that and I need reads from EVERYONE on players who are NOT ME, in order to figure this out.

So please stop talking about me and give me an opinion on everyone other than Roden please. Thank you.

[butterflies]

I was in a recent game where I hard tr Aristeia and sr RR and pretty much did three other confitowns. That turned out to be completely wrong. It was in fact RR, one of my strongest sr in that game who wound up being town and Ari who flipped scum in that.

I can’t lock in reads when it makes logical sense to question them and I honestly don’t know why you or anyone else for that matter would seriously consider that as “suspicious as hell”.

Like it’s beyond hella stupid not to question everything when your reads turn out to be wrong but I’m probably kicking myself the most for furtive and DNA although I couldn’t understand why any townie would outright fake a guilty like that, so meh.

[butterflies]

my brain right now: flipflopflpfopflipfopfipflipflopslfoppfloopp

Nornor tldr me where your reads at?

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

@OtH, @BB, Roden, Johnny and Noraa have all commented one way or another on my questioning my Johnny read. Do either of you have any thoughts on that?

[Mislim Bait]

VOTE: OTH

These are Malcolm's posts regarding Johnny

Malcolm.
Can you explain your SRs on CSF and BB?
I don't get them, especially on CSF who hasn't been doing scummy things as of late.
-Guanine

Outlined beforehand I liked the possibility of a CSF/Bella team, their interactions with each other felt like it could check out as scum teammates - some soft TR's with the occasional null read thrown in there just to create a little bit of distance. Beyond that I don't think CSF's pushes have been great as of late and feel like they could be coming from scum trying to defend teammates and implicate other players I read as town.

Is is not interesting, eg, that Cat continually pushes Johnny, who I think is looking really townie, and then as the day wears on a whole bunch of votes start to pile onto Johnny again?

I see.
Though, I think that CSF's push on Johnny is NAI because it could be due to her not wanting to vote you or Mala and Johnny being her SR.
On the other hand, why is Johnny a TR? He's still null for me.
-Guanine

I don't see Johnny/Math being scum together on the basis of their interactions before Math was eliminated. I scumread Johnny early on but have very much flipped on that and have made that clear. I'm aware I could have some incorrect reads myself, but I very much feel like we've mindmelded a bit and I think his pushes and reads have gotten increasingly solid as the game goes on.

I'd also argue that my reevaluation of Johnny in itself is pretty townie and shows a decent degree of flexibility

given my continued push for Rad in the last day or two which hasn't really gone away despite my willingness to compromise at the moment. Mala/Johnny are the two main alternatives to me but I've not particularly pushed either of them too strongly because I'm not convinced they're scum, albeit I am willing to compromise on Mala because I'm not certain enough on the slot to fight for saving it when my elimination is the likely alternative.

I believed BBT was town and little has changed that since. I believe Johnny is very likely town and wasn't interested in going there either

I kind of think your Johnny read is incoherent

I'm not sure why you think this.

I've stated several times Johnny's interactions with scum didn't strike me as aligned. I also increasingly mindmelded with them in a way I felt was unlikely to be scum.

Also, if I'm scum, what's my motive for suddenly going from scum to town on Johnny? It's a slot I could've pushed reasonably as scum continually, no? Suspicion has remained there and it'd have been a viable alternative if I wanted to divert away from Mala at any point. I'm not sure what I particularly gain from backing off Johnny as scum?

My read there is a perfectly natural development where I've reassessed a player as the game has gone on.

I tend to try and stay relatively calm during games but will be immensely frustrated if my elimination as town here is partially caused by scum basically annoying some townies into giving them another day. I am not scum here and I've presented what I think is a solid and robust case as to why I'm not.

What even is the actual case against me anyway? For the most part beyond one or two people who genuinely suspect me I feel as if it boils down to vibes since I'm not officially cleared yet. It feels a bit like the recurring case against BBT earlier in the game - when it came to actually presenting proper evidence for why BBT was scum nobody was really able to do so.

Malcolm here ignores the valid reasons to scumread him and is reductive of the case. He hasn't really engaged with CSF's reasoning about how his read progression on Johnny is inconsistent, and now he is acting as if there aren't any reasons to scumread him.

I have engaged with this and I believe CSF's case re Johnny is fairly inaccurate.

What's my motivation to sort Johnny as town if I'm scum anyway? It'd have been a useful place for me to continue pushing along with Rad given there's been pressure remaining on that slot if I was scum, no?

I have engaged with this and I believe CSF's case re Johnny is fairly inaccurate. What's my motivation to sort Johnny as town if I'm scum anyway? It'd have been a useful place for me to continue pushing along with Rad given there's been pressure remaining on that slot if I was scum, no?

What is inaccurate about 13392?

I felt your claim my read on Johnny had evolved weakly or was inconsistent was inaccurate.

I've stated myself I didn't really think Mala was likely to be scum but I maintain they were a better vote than Johnny would have been - Johnny's posts had improved for me and I'll admit that was partially due to us mindmelding. I'll admit there's always a chance Johnny could be pocketing me but that seems unlikely because from my POV as town that'd involve them in all likelihood openly scumreading scum partners all to pocket a player who's been a prime elimination candidate for the past two turns.

Either way, where's the scum motive in my changed read on Johnny? It's surely a useful slot for scum Malcolm to keep pushing, no? My posts may not offer the clarity you want but I've been pretty open that my early read on Johnny was probably a partial misread based on their tone, once I got used to that tone and evaluated that slot again I began to see how they approached the game as really townie. The only motive here is surely if I'm partnered with Johnny but that seems infeasible from a scum POV - remember early in the game I was openly advocating for Johnny's elimination even when Math (I think it was Math) was trying to get us to settle on some other players.

I feel like your read on me is less based in the conviction I'm actually scum and is more centred around the fact you dislike how I've articulated my progression on another player you've scumread. But there's a world where I can be wrong and Johnny and you're right without me being scum.

I've highlighted some sentences that sounds TMI
He shaded csf for the johnny push and said it was weird that votes piled up on Johnny suddenly.
He called his read on Johnny as 'towny' for reevaluating and being flexible which is weird
He also asked multiple times about what scum motive could he have for townreading Johnny and only at the last quote did he realize that people could perhaps think that him and johnny could be partnered as scum. I think this never crossed his mind until recently because of the TMI he have on Johnny's slot.

[Noraa]

my brain right now: flipflopflpfopflipfopfipflipflopslfoppfloopp

Nornor tldr me where your reads at?

-Butterflea

I think that the scum team is somewhere around bb/hook/johnny speaking WITHOUT paranoia right now gun to my head. if both scum is in that pool, i think i'd want to take johnny out. mm idk tbh because thinking more on that, i might take bb out. hmm i could also take hook out.
i think judging off how i feel about each slot, i'd probably take johnny out.
judging off partner vibes, im not sure yet

hook doesn't townread me, i dont think? and i dont scumread them. which is a bit strange given both slots' past with me. idk if i've ever played with marci on my main, but i remember my last alt game with her, we crossed tunneled each other to death. gamma normally townreads me while i scumread the heck out of them. now that i've said this, it probably doesn't apply anymore, but meta wise the slot is null scum.

johnny i feel like he could probably do this as scum or town. i feel like scum johnny and town johnny both know this is how to look towny. you know like be chill about it, dont blow up, accept that you should die, etc. but also from past experience with him, i know town him is very chill about things even when shit is blowing up and i've tunneled him for being this way before so ugh.

and then bb being penguin doesnt really help. i cant remember anything about playing with penguin but i feel like i just havent seen the slot around much so im pretty null there.

[Noraa]

i actually dont see the tmi in actually, any of those posts. like malcolm assuming johnny is town makes sense if he thinks johnny is town, no?

[Mislim Bait]

i actually dont see the tmi in actually, any of those posts. like malcolm assuming johnny is town makes sense if he thinks johnny is town, no?

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying but it's TMI because of the way he approaches the read and thinks 'he's town'.
Johnny is like an lhf and Malcolm was banking on that fact to continously ask town what's his scum motive for defending johnny here. It's weird if Johnny is his scum partner as that would just directly implicate him if johnny flips and would lead town to make a connection between the two of them.