LOST (Game Over)

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m not interested in hzving a convo with anyone who tells me I need to quit playing mafia. Do you seriously not get how extremely offensive that is to me?

[Gamma Emerald]

I said that part rhetorically, okay!?
I feel like there’s something I’m not getting here so I’m trying to get to the bottom of it

[JohnnyFarrar]

Let me put this another way:
What DO you find fun about this game? For me, I enjoy the social connections I get to make, and I also sometimes enjoy getting to embrace my inner thespian and play a role (not in the power role sense)

~GE

I think If Nancy got as worked up as their posts

appeared to

they would have popped a few blood vessels by now. Nancy's been playing this game a while and I trust them to regulate their own emotional health. I'd say don't assume she's not having a good time, i know things can get dramatic (especially this game for some reason) but remember you can't read emotion over text. If the issue here is Nancys causing YOU to have a bad time maybe avoid paying with them for a while.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Also sorry if I come off as condescending, I spend most of my time with my four kids and that makes it hard to step out of dad mode sometimes

[butterflies]

Thank you Johnny. <3

[Best Bird]

I am extremely NOT happy with being bullied by both BB and you for using common sense and refusing to continue to be a sheeple. I no longer think Johnny’s scum here, deal with it.

i...am not bullying you at all?

dear god get me the fuck off this island.

[Save The Dragons]

Flavor

Vote Count 11.3

2 JohnnyFarrar (Best Bird, Off the Hook)
2 Off The Hook (JohnnyFarrar, Mislim Bait)
1 Best Bird (butterflies)

Not Voting (Noraa, Roden, JohnnyFarrar)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-09-23 19:50:44)

Mod Notes

Mafia is a game first and foremost. Please remember that as you post in the near future and try to take the temperature down a little. Mafia is difficult emotionally for everyone and having each other's backs as we make ourselves vulnerable emotionally playing this game makes the game and the community more fun. This is not directed at any one person, just my thoughts in general.

Link to combined mod ISO

[Noraa]

i have to go to work. i'll be back in uh 8 hours ish or maybe not at all until tomorrow after work. anyways if yall end the day, i'll catch up overnight. if not, i'll catch up during the day. toodles

[Roden]

FTR I don't think Nancy is scum here, and I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point. Mislim is also very likely town but I'm not 100% confident. I think it could just be Johnny + OTH and we're freaking out over nothing here, with Nora as a secondary choice since I trust Luke's read.

[Roden]

Let me reword that. Luke's reads hold weight to me, due to being flipped town and being generally pretty good at this game.

[butterflies]

FTR I don't think Nancy is scum here, and I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point. Mislim is also very likely town but I'm not 100% confident. I think it could just be Johnny + OTH and we're freaking out over nothing here, with Nora as a secondary choice since I trust Luke's read.

I don’t know why you’re trusting in Luke’s reads since the only trs he’s been right about were I think DNA and Drap but he’s wrongly sr RAD, furtive and Pooky and wrongly tr Malcolm. If there’s a dead town who probably would had good reads, it was Frogs.

The same reasoning for why it makes 0 sense for me to ever kill Pooky likewise applies to Noraa. Neither of us were anywhere in his PoE.

I also think it’s extremely suboptimal to bus here if Johnny is indeed scum and I would think that if Johhny was aligned with OtH, OtH would have probably unvoted him by now.

It really doesn’t make sense for scum here to bus unless their buddy is actually unsavavable. Pooky taught me that in my tm game. He pointed out that why does scum!Norwee kill RAM to make things unnecessarily difficult for himself, when RAM’s strongest sr in that game was FL? That’s the same reasoning for why scum!Pooky killed Mastina > Cakez because Cakez in Pokemon Battles, because Cakez wrongly lockedtowned him for vigging his buddy (name escapes me) but point stands. It’s occams razor. Johnny’s being pretty damn townie since my unvote, so why would his hypothetical buddy try to make their wincon unnecessarily more difficult than it needs to be?

Plus, I hated both OtH’s and BB’s reaction to my Johnny unvote.

[Noraa]

I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point

I don't think best bird is more likely town for being all "ok kill me, get me out of here"

[Noraa]

Let me reword that. Luke's reads hold weight to me, due to being flipped town and being generally pretty good at this game.

luke literally doesnt have a single brain cell that is able to townread me present in his head.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point

I don't think best bird is more likely town for being all "ok kill me, get me out of here"

+1

I kept reading and rereading Roden's post because this also didn't make sense to me

[Roden]

I'm not settling on town!Bird because they got annoyed with Nancy, I don't think I even implied that.

Also I don't think discrediting Luke is the way to go here? Scum didn't kill him early on for fun, they obviously saw him as a threat and have the biggest reason to not want him to influence the game even after his death.

[Roden]

FTR I don't think Nancy is scum here, and I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point. Mislim is also very likely town but I'm not 100% confident. I think it could just be Johnny + OTH and we're freaking out over nothing here, with Nora as a secondary choice since I trust Luke's read.

I don’t know why you’re trusting in Luke’s reads since the only trs he’s been right about were I think DNA and Drap but he’s wrongly sr RAD, furtive and Pooky and wrongly tr Malcolm. If there’s a dead town who probably would had good reads, it was Frogs.

The same reasoning for why it makes 0 sense for me to ever kill Pooky likewise applies to Noraa. Neither of us were anywhere in his PoE.

I also think it’s extremely suboptimal to bus here if Johnny is indeed scum and I would think that if Johhny was aligned with OtH, OtH would have probably unvoted him by now.

It really doesn’t make sense for scum here to bus unless their buddy is actually unsavavable. Pooky taught me that in my tm game. He pointed out that why does scum!Norwee kill RAM to make things unnecessarily difficult for himself, when RAM’s strongest sr in that game was FL? That’s the same reasoning for why scum!Pooky killed Mastina > Cakez because Cakez in Pokemon Battles, because Cakez wrongly lockedtowned him for vigging his buddy (name escapes me) but point stands. It’s occams razor. Johnny’s being pretty damn townie since my unvote, so why would his hypothetical buddy try to make their wincon unnecessarily more difficult than it needs to be?

Plus, I hated both OtH’s and BB’s reaction to my Johnny unvote.

If only one of Johnny or OTH are scum, then Nora can still be scum despite not being in Pooky's PoE, because one of the scum members are still in the PoE.

And I don't think it's impossible for scum to cross vote here, if one of them flips their buddy then they'll gain town cred, that's just how it is. Johnny isn't a guaranteed elim today anymore and didn't even push out scum yet, so imagine how reluctant people would be to vote him tomorrow if he actually did vote out scum today. Who would OTH vote anyway if not Johnny? Mislim? Bird?? I don't think they have any way to move their vote without it looking awkward at this point.

[butterflies]

I'm not settling on town!Bird because they got annoyed with Nancy, I don't think I even implied that.

Also I don't think discrediting Luke is the way to go here? Scum didn't kill him early on for fun, they obviously saw him as a threat and have the biggest reason to not want him to influence the game even after his death.

BB claimed that I somehow fell for Johnny’s AtE but there was no AtE. I said his posting was good and he outright dismissed it. BB initially agreed with Pooky that Johnny/OtH solves the game but suddenly, BB has completely removed OtH from the equation. BB also insists that Johnny’s scum here, he’s not even considering the possibility he could possibly be wrong on that -

like YOU did

.

Then he comes out with these bizarre series of posts that me and Johnny are somehow suddenly aligned because Johnny changed his read on me after I unvoted him.

If BB is scum like I think he is, your argument about Luke being nk’d becomes essentially meaningless. Luke was killed because Pooky innoed him, similar to T-Bone. Are you seriously going to also argue that T-Bone’s reads
were also good?

Also, please don’t forget all of my arguments about why Toog’s 2nd post obvtowns him, look at Taly posting and most important of all: Math/Taly interactions during gladiate. They very clearly do not look SvS to me. I can once again - like I have already numerous times in this game - pull up all of those quotes but it’s extremely obvious to me that Math honestly didn’t give a fuck whether Taly or Ceph bit the dust. Their interactions do not look SvS to me in the slightest. Pooky att wrongly applied that to Frogs but it did actually did in fact, apply to Math.

[butterflies]

FTR I don't think Nancy is scum here, and I think I've fully turned around on Bird by this point. Mislim is also very likely town but I'm not 100% confident. I think it could just be Johnny + OTH and we're freaking out over nothing here, with Nora as a secondary choice since I trust Luke's read.

I don’t know why you’re trusting in Luke’s reads since the only trs he’s been right about were I think DNA and Drap but he’s wrongly sr RAD, furtive and Pooky and wrongly tr Malcolm. If there’s a dead town who probably would had good reads, it was Frogs.

The same reasoning for why it makes 0 sense for me to ever kill Pooky likewise applies to Noraa. Neither of us were anywhere in his PoE.

I also think it’s extremely suboptimal to bus here if Johnny is indeed scum and I would think that if Johhny was aligned with OtH, OtH would have probably unvoted him by now.

It really doesn’t make sense for scum here to bus unless their buddy is actually unsavavable. Pooky taught me that in my tm game. He pointed out that why does scum!Norwee kill RAM to make things unnecessarily difficult for himself, when RAM’s strongest sr in that game was FL? That’s the same reasoning for why scum!Pooky killed Mastina > Cakez because Cakez in Pokemon Battles, because Cakez wrongly lockedtowned him for vigging his buddy (name escapes me) but point stands. It’s occams razor. Johnny’s being pretty damn townie since my unvote, so why would his hypothetical buddy try to make their wincon unnecessarily more difficult than it needs to be?

Plus, I hated both OtH’s and BB’s reaction to my Johnny unvote.

If only one of Johnny or OTH are scum, then Nora can still be scum despite not being in Pooky's PoE, because one of the scum members are still in the PoE.

And I don't think it's impossible for scum to cross vote here, if one of them flips their buddy then they'll gain town cred, that's just how it is. Johnny isn't a guaranteed elim today anymore and didn't even push out scum yet, so imagine how reluctant people would be to vote him tomorrow if he actually did vote out scum today. Who would OTH vote anyway if not Johnny? Mislim? Bird?? I don't think they have any way to move their vote without it looking awkward at this point.

Sure it’s obviously not impossible that scum would bus for towncred but is that really optimal to do that, especially in regards to Johnny? Why would scum prefer possible “towncred” when keeping their buddy makes their wincon so much easier?

It’s far more difficult for scum to solo win here, which is why I’m arguing that unless scum is trying to make their wincon harder, it’s suboptimal to bus here -

unless your buddy is actually unsavable

- but if you honestly believe Johnny’s being bussed, then voting out one of the alldged bussers is a good move. I still think that both of their reactions to my unvote didn’t look particularly townie.

I also think that Gamma telling me I shouldn’t play mafia anymore was extremely wolfy and manipulative and definitely not how I would expect town!Gamma to react. I have other thoughts about that post but those involve my being a complete emotional wreck because of how extremely hurtful it was.

[Noraa]

Also I don't think discrediting Luke is the way to go here?

If you trust luke so much, why dont you trust him when he said i give up on reading noraa; i always scumread them.

[Noraa]

I think the best elim right now is best bird>johnny>oth.
this is in terms of threat level. i dont think we have issues eliminating scum johnny or scum oth in elo. in fact, i think im more worried about mislimming them potentially if town, so we definitely dont have the issue of not elimming them if scum. the way oth is getting heat for what i see as not being active and best bird isnt because he was all defeatist and angry for no reason makes me also think best bird has a higher likelihood of not being town here since the gamestate is almost always going to favor scum because scum is trying to seem towny whereas town doesnt try to seem towny.
i think the best course of action today is to eliminate best bird. ask luke to leave a final reads list and we'll consider it true if best bird flips town and not consider it if he doesnt. luke is definitely posting because that stuff he said about me is a literal copy of what he's always said about me, so if best bird is actually town, a final reads list with reasons from luke is very important. but i think the risk of scum best bird running away with a win is much higher than scum johnny or oth doing the same thing especially if he has luke content to just copy paste.
consider two situations:
1) we eliminate oth and oth flips town. consider scum best birds chances in elo.
2) we eliminate best bird and best bird flips town. consider scum oths chances in elo.
i dont think those are even vaguely close and the same applies to johnny.

[Noraa]

If only one of Johnny or OTH are scum, then Nora can still be scum despite not being in Pooky's PoE

you're literally maneuvering a whole puzzle to fit me into a scum team. "lukewarm said noraa is scum and since pooky said oth/johnny, if only one is scum, noraa could still be scum!!"

its really annoying that you are like an ic here and not giving us any new content to work with. like do you not have reads outside of what luke and pooky have said? im sorry that's kind of mean but like, are you reading my posts and actually thinking about them? are you interacting with me and actively trying to read me? or are you just ready to die and want to hand things off? like i feel like i understand where you are coming from, but its frustrating to be on the receiving end. i feel like i am trying to solve this game and you're just throwing around some random thing luke said. it feels like you've done zero of the research yourself and are blind trusting luke.

luke has scumread me literally every single game he's been in with me. does that say shit about my alignment? why are you blind trusting dead town? just because they're town? like your argument has no content and is based off of "luke scumreads you and luke is town" like that argument does not hold up to any logic test. that is an invalid argument. if both premises can be true and the conclusion false, the argument is invalid. ok well thats the dry cut logic and doesn't always apply in mafia. but here, it certainly does.

[Noraa]

i feel like when im an ic im always useless to town in every way possible and have the shittiest reads ever. and then scum keep me around and i just want to die. but man the receiving end sucks.

[Noraa]

anyways i need to go to work. i'll finish catching up after work.

[Mislim Bait]

I'm not settling on town!Bird because they got annoyed with Nancy, I don't think I even implied that.

Also I don't think discrediting Luke is the way to go here? Scum didn't kill him early on for fun, they obviously saw him as a threat and have the biggest reason to not want him to influence the game even after his death.

Well luke was green peeked so you could put that as one of the reason why he's dead

There's also a world where scum wanted luke out but wants his reads in the game. Luke flipping town would make his cases more credible like the one on rad.

[butterflies]

I would lim either/both of BB/OtH before Johnny because scum!FL pulled very similar crap on me in tm. FL made a very comparable post to Gamma. He also shamed me for not being a docile little miselim in that game. I believe that Gamma was essentially trying to mess with my head to make me question my reactions to getting wrongly sr, so he could easier miselim me but what was super gross to me was that he was using our friendship to do it

I am extremely difficult to miselim and a big part of that is I’m not docile and that isn’t the kind of reaction town!Gamma would have towards me. Town!Gamma gets pissed when you wrongly sr him - NOT ever if you’re mad if you’re pushed. That is never a townie Gamma thought.

Why would town!Gamma have an issue with my reaction to being sr if he’s town? Town!Gamma would be happy that I made myself readable. So long as I wasn’t toxic, which I don’t believe I was, why should have any issue with that at all?