Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[T3]

Menalque died in the night. He was a Mafia Goon.
scamper died in the night. He was a Town Mason.

[T3]

VC 5.1
Not voting (9): Datisi, Titus, Dannflor, fireisredsir, GuiltyLion, Thestatusquo, Frogsterking, DeasVail, Ausuka
Day 5 will end in (expired on 2022-10-19 11:56:00). With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

[Datisi]

hey friends, i'm a little busy irl so quick word from me:

scamper and i reread most of the game together last night, and while we did have a few disagreements, we agreed on a poe of {mena, shea, frogs, fire}, with preference for the first two.

when i get home in a few hours, i can summarise our thoughts and why we consider every other player clear - but the current tldr version is

i reread 212 pages of this game last night, and i once again came to the strong conclusion that shea/gamma are nowhere near clearing for shea and i will very very likely not rest until shea is dead today

[Ausuka]

am interested in hearing your thoughts on shea, fire and dv in particular

maybe i'm just confbiased but i do still think it's fire here

i have been townreading relly/shea slot all game and have not really felt like he's been scummy at any point?

and dv is like ... not really sure why he's being cleared here? i dont like hard scumread him but did A Little Rereading overnight and i think his associatives with baltar are kinda worse than i remembered

my reads kinda suck so i'm not going to start a shitfight over anything but zzz

[Ausuka]

i think the 5 goons idea is probably correct. i guess the last scum could also be some sort of pr, not sure how much it matters at this point without any way of verifying

4 goons + sk is possible but like, seems a bit mean for the scum and also i think in that case we just win? so probably not worth bothering with

[Datisi]

4 goons + sk is possible but like, seems a bit mean for the scum and also i think in that case we just win? so probably not worth bothering with

well if titus doesn't die by f3, we'll know

[Dannflor]

Oh my god I’m so mad at myself that obscure slot didn’t die like days ago

[Dannflor]

I still kinda lean Frogster here but I’m interested in hearing your case Datisi

[Titus]

This brings me to the precise problem here. It's uber rare but it might be in my best interest to prod dodge after getting a mass claim.

Scum can attempt to use me for their advantage, if they think I'll shoot town. But if they think I shoot scum, then they kill me.

I would like Datisi at EoD to make two readwalls depending on shea's alignment. I do feel shea is a misvig I had to bait in case scum had to bait given the unknown possibility of a scum doctor/rb.

P.S. an sk shoots n1 most likely.

[Ausuka]

Btw I don't know if i would go as far as clearing dannflor but i do think the menalque flip looks very good for him and am not really scumreading him rn

[Datisi]

titus, you think we should be massclaiming here?

[fireisredsir]

i don't think the shea/gamma interactions are clearing but i kinda thought the shea/obscure ones are? especially both of them together?? so like with mena flipping scum i don't think that would be where i'd want to go first

i think its frog, would like to look at dv again now that im not thinking it's GL

which btw i don't think it is anymore bc i don't really think the issues i had with his pushing for wagoning obscure to get the HEM shot away from his partner really make sense at all with HEM being scum

[fireisredsir]

i guess it's not impossible reading it again but idk seems p unlikely to me

[Frogsterking]

If Titus thinks Shea is a misvig then it's probably fire. I'm probably going to continue lurking, it seems like chiming in periodically is an effective playstyle for me once the early game is complete.

VOTE: fire

[Datisi]

ok, i'm finally HOME, i have COFFEE, time to paraphrase 5 pages worth of mason dialouge

hang tight

[Frogsterking]

If Titus thinks Shea is a misvig then it's probably fire. I'm probably going to continue lurking, it seems like chiming in periodically is an effective playstyle for me once the early game is complete.

VOTE: fire

I don't get it, am I supposed to vote Shea or not? I think I misread Titus's post.

VOTE: Shea

[Titus]

titus, you think we should be massclaiming here?

Yes. If it's 3 remaining scum with 9 alive that means 2 miseliminations left. 2 conftown left. No conftown to guide elo.

[Datisi]

how in the everloving fuck would there be 3 scum remaining

i was counting on there being one left

[Ausuka]

hardclaim Informed Townie, there are 7 scum in the game. you're welcome

[Dannflor]

Is there a specific order people want

[Ausuka]

I don't think there needs to be a massclaim today but I guess if people really want to we can?

[fireisredsir]

i assume she meant 2 bc otherwise the math doesn't check out but still, that would be a lot

[Frogsterking]

hardclaim Informed Townie, there are 7 scum in the game. you're welcome

What the fuck? How are we ever supposed to beat that? Like I know we got vigs, but triple masons and informed townie vs 7 groupscum?? That makes me not even want to play anymore.

[Datisi]

okay, so i'm gonna separate the thoughts we had on each player, then add whatever else is there into ~notes~

as i said before, we believed the correct poe to be {mena, shea, frog, fire}, vaguely in that order, with everyone else being townie enough to not be immediately considered

also, some notes will have (s) or (d) at the end. meaning the point was brought up by either scamper or me (and some maybe repeat bc we were doing our rereads at different times)

guiltylion

- he is townie because he was one of the rare people that actually seriously considered scamper's scumread on hem on d2 (3940, 3964, 4005) (s)
- 1202 and the posts surrounding it are probably not s/s, as vpb probably doesn't have great associates w the last scum either (d)
- interactions with baltar prob not scum/scum, and also scamper said he's found it easy to see where gl has been coming from in the game, so he's a bit stornger townread for scamper than for me (s)

ausuka

- vpb's interactions with his buddies should probably not be overthought, since all his interactions with flipped scum have been... very bleak. so the baltar/ausuka fight is very likely t/s (d)

dannflor

- hem has a lot of posts on day 1 that were shitpushing dannflor, to the point where they do not look s/s and where dann might just be clear off hem flip alone (1133, 1177, 1206, 1578, 1585, 1588, 1693, 2335, 2337, 2348 quickly turned into 2397) (s)
- prior to the vc in 4314, which had s/s gamma/hem wagons, he voted gamma. scum is less likely to vote the lesser scum wagon in this scenario (same as deasvail) (s)
- 987 and 1144 don't feel like s/s (d)
- 1438 feels opportunistic and not s/s (d)

deasvail

- around the competing wagons of hem/deas, obscure was having a really really awkward read on hem (lol, 4096), and instead tried to help push deasvail (4109) (s)
- prior to the vc in 4314, which had s/s gamma/hem wagons, he voted gamma. scum is less likely to vote the lesser scum wagon in this scenario (same as dann) (s)
- the vc in 5145 is townie for deasvail (s)
- obscure was cosistently pushing deasvail throughout the whole game, and that is probably not s/s (s)
- csf's vote on deas in 5455 and the vc in 5457 - csf knew that both her and tweetie are on borrowed time this game and would flip eventually. so csf was probably trying to push a cw to tweetie to at least get one town flip there (and she was pushing deas) (s)
- on page 33, gamma and hem are having a shitfight, that we now know is s/s - in that light, don't think deas is scum because gamma kept ignoring his vote/scumread on her (d)
- page 51 is the first time that deas interacts with scum about the read on me (reminder deas was townreadign me early, hem gamma vpb were either scumreadign me or seeing me in a negative light) (d; scamper told me this is stupid because deas was rather inactive and didn't have opportunity to react, i told him to fuck off) (we didn't actually have that conversation i would never tell him to fuck off)
- 2304 probably not a bus vote by deas (d)

fireisredsir

- 5499 is oof (s)
- fire going "maybe both wagons are right" at the time in 5145, when the wagons are obscure and deas, while he himself is pushing deas, is horrible (d)

frogsterking

- bad interactions with hem, defending him (4120, 4288) while having very few direct interactions with hem (s)
- the awkward read vpb had on frogster (d)
- 2593 is awful (s)
- hem did not interact with frogs at all (s)
- awful interactions with/around tweetie prior to her yeet - the awkward 5479, defending tweetie (5483), attacking deasvail (5504, 5509, 5514, 5520), BUT flipping back to tweetie right after scamper and dann vote her (5528) (s)
- that time scamper called out frogs for literally lying about eira's meta and nobody gave a shit (s)
- frogs being generous to tweetie/hem while not showing the same generosity to others eg. deas (s) (note: i am currently mulling over frog/mena interactions)

shea

- when i asked whether i'm insane to think he can be scum, scamper told me no. scamper said that shea should not live to endgame as there's too many odd things happening between his slot and csf's slot. also, he noted that shea's responses to pressure have felt weird when compared to everyone else's, which is something i was vaguely feeling too, since day 2.
- 2022 is like, a horrible post in retrospect (d)
- the reads given between hem and irrel are not good (s)
- 4025 is a very... brutal post (s)
- 394, with the knowledge of town-me and scum-baltar, is awful (d)
- also 400. and the quick turn onto vpb in 652 does not make any sense (d)
- i compared shea's "i'm never scum with gamma!!!" to my yelling in open 857, where i was scum and i knew we were fucked but i kept very loudly and very persistently saying that my associated with flipped scum make no sense to be s/s
- 4050 is yikes (d)

miscellaneous

- 3481 fire/shea not s/s (d)
- page 162 is not s/s for fire/shea because it doesn't make sense that fire would be doing a lazy busvote on hem while shea would be doing a godwaful defense of hem (d)

[Frogsterking]

I'm tracker, Shea or fire killed whoever died last night.