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[fireisredsir]

But I thought you already did it? Enough to not need to worry about me being scum over DV? Why would you need to dig?

i would be pulling quotes or posts probably if i wanted it to convince anyone?

OK but give us the broad strokes? It's a strong enough reason to you that you are comfortable pushing dv specifically in the same manner that you pushed frogster yesterday so surely you should be able to just give a birds eye view and give us the quotes to back that up tomorrow.

So can we get that now?

some of the main reasons are: i don't think your approach to obscure is partnered. i think in general if you entered and found yourself under a lot of suspicion then "bus harder" when p much everyone else on the team on playstyle is less likely to endgame than you, is like very rarely going to be a winning play. and you're probably not going to like me saying this but tbh it just seems like you've barely been paying attention to the game for like weeks and i just kinda doubt thats how you play this as scum. i think you would be motivated to win and stay engaged and not just let yourself get poe'd

GL im less sure on now that i think about it so maybe i should be considering there more than i am. the main reasons i remember were that he has felt uninformed at crucial points in the game, and not in a way that feels faked, but ill have to look again to see specifics on that (i felt the opposite when i thought hem was town, but obv that's changed)

[GuiltyLion]

I guess my thinking though is that at a certain point town usually realizes they're getting caught up in a haze of pedantic bullshit that is ultimately like three steps removed from stuff that they think speaks to their case or helps resolve people's feelings about them. plus they're also operating from a baseline that they're town. so there's an inherent throughline of towniness to everything you think you've done and personally it's frustrating to start getting into the theory of an argument like "here's how I could be playing as scum, but I'm not doing that for x and y reason, but also here's why I'm not playing this other way as town, etc" whereas as scum you're more prone to thinking such a debate may help you in some way or another

does that make sense? I think when I'm town I just start getting riled up and try to start simplifying the debate and hammering my main points whereas scum me has a harder time doing that, if I do it's an emulation

[fireisredsir]

why they acted how they did

i mean if anyone has any questions about why I've acted in a certain way at any point in the game feel free to ask and ill answer

i can answer those questions just as easily as scum but if you want to then go for it

[Thestatusquo]

I don't think we've been playing the same game if you think I haven't been paying attention but a little antagonism thrown in there to make it seem more carefree and less pockety is a nice touch.

[GuiltyLion]

tbh it just seems like you've barely been paying attention to the game for like weeks

yeah this seems like a wonky read, TSQ has maybe had moments of absentmindedness at late hours (mainly thinking of forgetting CSF claim thing) but also has had many other instances of paying attention to subtle points or assertions in people's posts that I've missed on first pass

[Thestatusquo]

It's an incredibly funny reason to find me townie while ostensibly pushing DV though, I'll give you that.

[fireisredsir]

you have like multiple times clearly just not read posts that I've made or seemingly missed conversations

you literally just did when you asked why i hadn't talked about reassessing my townreads on people

[fireisredsir]

idk i should go to bed

sorry for bringing it up i didn't want to go into that bc i knew it would not be received well but it is part of my read so whatever

[Thestatusquo]

you havent talked about your town reads I don't think, you just asserted that you had them.

Like you make this post

i think i feel least good about my reasons for townreading DV. i sort of preflip cleared him earlier due to his pushes on GL and frog, but they can't be scum together, so

i do still feel like a lot of the stuff with GL is kinda sus, but a big part of it also was how he handled HEM vs obscure, and that just reads as a lot more uninformed knowing that both were actually scum rather than just obscure. he'd probably be my second choice tho

ausuka i actually have had some creeping doubts about a few various points gut feeling like tmi due to a seemingly unsupported confidence but her reads are probably just a lot better than mine lol. if she's scum she has gotten way better than her previous scum game in terms of sounding believable which idk if i would really expect after not playing scum for 2 years

shea i just don't think is scum. i don't really want to get into it. ik he's next in the poe but i don't think my reasons will convince anyone not to flip him anyway so whatever

dann feels pure like all game to me now. just feels like he's constantly trying to find scum. very well played if scum

i kinda doubt it's titus bc wtf is an even night serial killer

Which is just like here is some surface level stuff, but in response to me you said

i did already talk about how i revisited everyone else and reaffirmed my reasons to townread them, yes

idk but that post doesn't really feel like you did the work to reaffirm your reads as justifications for singularly pushing dv the way you're claiming you did. Like you're making it sound like you did some work looking at everyone in order to avoid the mistake you said you would be making here.

i think my reasons to townread everyone else are good

i didn't revisit my reasons to townread dv yesterday bc i was focused on frog and that was a mistake

So I guess I should be clear here with my actual question. What are you claiming to have done to "revisit your town reads?"

[DeasVail]

idk i should go to bed

sorry for bringing it up i didn't want to go into that bc i knew it would not be received well but it is part of my read so whatever

I obviously don’t think you’re scum Titus, but to be completely honest I’m a bit surprised in you voting me because you’re probably the only person here that has played with scum-me. What has led you to think that this is it?

[DeasVail]

Sorry I didn’t mean to quote the fire post

[Dannflor]

omg deas is finally being wagoned!!

also i'm alive. but apparently people want to kill me because i'm busy >.> like i get it, i clearly can't keep up with the game so feel free to just off me, but i'm still a villager.

the length of the phases is just not for me

the alternative is saying that i will participate enough to figure out the mafia with certainty or something and i have a realistic view of my time.

obviously i'd prefer if we kill deas but i'm not going to be an asshole about it. i'm just a vanilla townie.

i think one of the reasons i scum read fire so much rnow is it feels very reminiscent of obscure and that tactic was like pretty effective at getting the pressure off at the time

[DeasVail]

Can we take an approach of:

Fire is okay with getting eliminated
I am not

And eliminate fire?

[Thestatusquo]

I am also not sure I find dann as pure as everyone else does, and part of it is actually in what fire said about me:

and you're probably not going to like me saying this but tbh it just seems like you've barely been paying attention to the game for like weeks and i just kinda doubt thats how you play this as scum. i think you would be motivated to win and stay engaged and not just let yourself get poe'd

and

it's also not really relevant but I think Dann is radiating towniness on these past couple of pages. past couple of day phases really, feels like he's trying the hardest out of all of us

Which is why its then weird to see fire post

it's also not really relevant but I think Dann is radiating towniness on these past couple of pages. past couple of day phases really, feels like he's trying the hardest out of all of us

strong agree

Like I get that me and dann are not in quite the same spot in the PoE, but town reading effort in one place and then saying the lack of effort in the other is townie is just a weird way to approach sorting.

[Thestatusquo]

Can we take an approach of:

Fire is okay with getting eliminated
I am not

And eliminate fire?

Do you think that approach is more likely to find scum in a vacuum? I kind of doubt it.

[DeasVail]

The stakes do not quite feel high enough, nor is the game whittled down enough for me to go into ultra solvey mode. I really am at the point where I feel like S_S is a good enough elim.

now would be a good time

Also this post feels especially like meaningless snark what with fire’s changed tune of “I was tunnelled on Frogster and that was wrong” when Day 5 I had put quite a bit of thought into my reads including a lot of consideration into my Frogster townread.

PEdit:

Re: Dannflor I did have the thought that if I were solo scum here needing to survive to the end, I would be wanting to appear as pure and collaborative and pro-town as possible. Which has caused me slight paranoia, but I don’t pick up on Dannflor’s efforts being manipulative as I find fire’s to be.

PEdit:

I do not, and it was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but if it gets Fire eliminated…

[Thestatusquo]

I guess part of why I'm paranoid of Dann is that the way he approached frogster yesterday, he made really strong points about how frogsters posts felt super townie with how he and I were real timing and how he felt it was a proactive reason to town read frogster and then that kind of just went away when the frogster push started happening. The reason I don't know if that's a super strong reason to be suspicious is that obviously I was strongly convinced frogster was scum at the end of day yesterday too, so idk.

But its not the first time this game where I've felt like dann was very fixated on a point where it supported a narrative that would be beneficial to him but it completely went away never to be mentioned again later. The best example of this was at the end of day with me forgetting CSFs claim he seemed very interested in saying I was scum based off of me forgetting that CSF had claimed but that hasn't seemed to play into his analysis of my slot at all now that less people seem interested in flipping me.

Basically I kind of feel like asking the question "who is trying to end game the hardest" that dannflor himself asked, the answer to that question is dannflor.

So my paranoia does not want him excluded from the PoE at all.

I'm still parsing how I feel about fire though.

[Thestatusquo]

(In the first paragraph there I mean "strong" in the sense of how strongly he seemed to believe them, not strong in the "objectively true" sense.)

[Ausuka]

hi im extremely tired does anyone wanna talk about this game or smth

[Thestatusquo]

hi

[Thestatusquo]

am I tinfoil hatting too much on dannflor

[Dannflor]

Re: Dannflor I did have the thought that if I were solo scum here needing to survive to the end, I would be wanting to appear as pure and collaborative and pro-town as possible.

I mean, there is a reason I'm trying so hard right now and why I am currently pushing so hard for fire and it's actually exactly because I do not want to go to endgame

I am *dreading* this game going another phase. I am dreading winding up in a LyLo and having to defend myself as a deepwolf. I'm dreading the pressure of having to either figure out who the scum is and/or defend myself sufficiently. I am scared about this game.

And that's why I really can't relate to fire here and why I think he's scum. I don't sense any sort of like... urgency to solve the game. Like yeah, he pushed on DV when prompted but it's like, if I was in his position my first instinct would be like WAIT DON'T KILL ME I'M AT LEAST GONNA SOLVE THE GAME BEFORE I DIE

and he's like "I can try to solve the game I guess if you guys want but probably don't trust me"

I don't know maybe I'm too prideful or something and that's why I can't relate. But long story short I really want the game to end this phase and I currently feel very confident on fire. I don't know if that's actually helpful for anyone's paranoia of me but w/e

I guess part of why I'm paranoid of Dann is that the way he approached frogster yesterday, he made really strong points about how frogsters posts felt super townie with how he and I were real timing and how he felt it was a proactive reason to town read frogster and then that kind of just went away when the frogster push started happening. The reason I don't know if that's a super strong reason to be suspicious is that obviously I was strongly convinced frogster was scum at the end of day yesterday too, so idk.

Yeah, idk

I probably should've stayed with my conviction. I kinda justified voting him at the end there by just how absolutely horrible reading the thread was. and like his behavior was awful. like I basically thought well I mean I could be wrong and even if he's town then at least the thread health is gonna be a lot better after this. but yeah I wish I had had more conviction before frogster blew up and I think that was a mistake on my part.

But its not the first time this game where I've felt like dann was very fixated on a point where it supported a narrative that would be beneficial to him but it completely went away never to be mentioned again later. The best example of this was at the end of day with me forgetting CSFs claim he seemed very interested in saying I was scum based off of me forgetting that CSF had claimed but that hasn't seemed to play into his analysis of my slot at all now that less people seem interested in flipping me.

mmm I thought this was more of a funny point than anything else. Like I think it's interesting to consider and if it's true it would be absolutely hilarious. I was very caught up in the moment and excitement of CSF being scum and liked the idea of it being that simple. after reflecting it's like one small point and I really think against the volume of reasons to town read you it doesn't really hold much weight in my brain. also apparently you weren't the only one who treated CSF as not conf-town

I think the main thing is just that I've pretty much hard town read you since I came into the game and pretty rarely wavered. and I still feel pretty good about that

[Ausuka]

am I tinfoil hatting too much on dannflor

idk i mean like

i feel like the logic of efforting -> scum is flawed? i know it was originally dannflor who said it but like

i think town and scum both have motivation to effort here, and i don't think scum is necessarily the ppl efforting cos like, we should always be efforting from a gameplay perspective and irl stuff gets in the way regardless of alignment?

i think there's a small point there in that town are more reluctant to effort because like it's probably just fire and we are wasting our time. but i guess we should still be doing that? idk it's still early i hope i'm making some sense

i need to do more reviewing on dansflor probably. i was sus of him a little while ago, he has vibed more town since then but i'm not like, removing him from the poe or anything. i feel like a lot of people have called him strong town and i guess by sheer number they are probably right? but shrug

[T3]

VC 6.3
fireisredsir (2): Dannflor, DeasVail
DeasVail (1): Titus
Not voting (4): Ausuka, fireisredsir, GuiltyLion, Thestatusquo
Day 6 will end in (expired on 2022-10-28 14:59:00)

[Ausuka]

ok now datisi's cafe is over i just want to say like

fire being all "if i was scum i'd definitely win here" just feels like... performative and untrue?

like i haven't seen the scum pt in that game but it seems similar in that scum were backed into a corner, he was under suspicion, and he did not in fact win or come close to winning in that game