House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What's the DOWNSIDE here?

It's guaranteed to be an elimination on town rather than on scum.

Just to satiate the paranoia of ONE fucking player that's town along with doing

exactly

what the scum want.

That seems like a pretty fucking huge downside to me!

Datisi is not guaranteed town

it's not paranoia, it's mechanical efficiency and optimal play... and avoids bad worlds we lose in given our current status

[mastina]

I think the number of elims argument is not really that compelling when Duels are a thing

Duels are MORE reason not to eliminate Datisi--not less.

Datisi can on a future day enter a duel and get himself killed if need be. And if we drop down to 9 alive, he can be eliminated regardless of the day.

But the soonest that could happen is tomorrow, IF we have a kill tonight (11 alive), and IF we have 2 duelists die.

We know there's always going to be 11 alive tomorrow. Period. Can't be less because both duels today failed.

That means that there's no reason to eliminate Datisi today and every reason to eliminate...oh, I dunno...one of the six slots which could actually be scum?

[mastina]

i don't think scum go for intentional gambits for no killing. Thats something i would do. Not how most scum players play. Anyone speculating on that is literally paranoing over nothing. Unless u think im scum. Cause i def would do a no kill gambit as scum for lolz.

And with you being town, that means the council would all be town, yes?

Which means the push on Datisi/fireisredsir/you would be...what?

(Hint: it ain't town.)

[Firebringer]

mastina im ngl. ur ability to flip any good counter argument with ur logic judo that i can't wrap my head around. Is very interesting to watch.
Wish i had this ability to argue to an auditor the other day why deficiency wasn't a deficiency but actually proof of operational effectiveness. This would save me so much extra work. I mean i doubt they would accept the arguments, but i bet i could confuse them enough that i wouldn't hear back from them for a few weeks till they wrapped their head around my responses.

[Roden]

My main problem with the scum kills is that we literally told scum we would vote out Datisi the Day before ELO. If we somehow don't hit scum for the next two Days, then Datisi has five green checks when we hit 9 players left. If Datisi is town when we elim him there then we have 5 conftown vs 3 scum...there's zero way to mis-elim anyone in that ELO.

They aren't killing conftowns, just Trackers who never got confirmed. They aren't stopping the Cop in any way, even though they were directly told that our conftowns will outnumber the scum team by the time we reach ELO.

Somebody make this make sense.

Did you include combat trials

I mean, I don't think any green checks are gonna duel any time soon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hey, make that logic with me Mastina,

Oh you, you I'm not talking to because I don't want to get banned.

I have fucking WORDS I would like to say but I'm on

very

thin ice with the mafiascum mod teams (as-is I might still get banned anyway), so like. I can't say what I want to.

God that's always fun to hear.

"I'm really toxic and might get banned, so I'm not talking to you so I dno't be even MORE toxic and DEFINITELY get banned"

I didn't even do shit to you, lmfao.

Come on Mastina, let's hear the response to this nonsense.

Let's hear what it is that was so bad that you feel like saying bannable things?

Is it "LLD Suspected you"?

Is that the great sin?

[mastina]

So I mean, it seems flawless to me.

The flaw is that I don't want to eliminate town that satiates YOUR paranoia and YOURS ALONE, when you are

being backed by scum in doing so

.

I would much prefer we actually fucking lim the scum now and let the scum be boxed in further.

A Datisi mislim

opens doors

to the scum.

An elimination on one of the six possible scum slots boxes scum in even if it's a mislim.
We either get five names with two scum, or five names with three scum.
If the scum kill Datisi to stop the cop check, well waddaya know? Eliminating Datisi isn't necessary anymore!
If the scum don't kill Datisi and let the cop check go through, we've got:
-four names with three scum (if inno + mislim)
-five names with two scum (if scum lim + inno)
-Or four names with confscum (if guilty + mislim)

In every world, eliminating Datisi today is doing the scum's job for them and preventing us from narrowing the PoE down further.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So I mean, it seems flawless to me.

The flaw is that I don't want to eliminate town that satiates YOUR paranoia and YOURS ALONE, when you are

being backed by scum in doing so

.

I would much prefer we actually fucking lim the scum now and let the scum be boxed in further.

A Datisi mislim

opens doors

to the scum.

An elimination on one of the six possible scum slots boxes scum in even if it's a mislim.
We either get five names with two scum, or five names with three scum.
If the scum kill Datisi to stop the cop check, well waddaya know? Eliminating Datisi isn't necessary anymore!
If the scum don't kill Datisi and let the cop check go through, we've got:
-four names with three scum (if inno + mislim)
-five names with two scum (if scum lim + inno)
-Or four names with confscum (if guilty + mislim)

In every world, eliminating Datisi today is doing the scum's job for them and preventing us from narrowing the PoE down further.

This is bad logic, again. The plan continues to give us another cop who can do more checks and ICs we can actually rely on and eliminates a real viable world where there are problems if we don't remove it.

But your idea is to let it go until the day before ELO, and if you are scum that's great because now you and Datisi both die, kill anyone remotely townie remaining and leave your last person to clean it up.

If I'm wrong about that, killing Datisi now doesn't cost us a thing.

[Firebringer]

Honestly, would we even be having this conversation if the Cop was literally anyone besides Datisi

imagine me as cop.
there would be no hesitation to end me today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Honestly, would we even be having this conversation if the Cop was literally anyone besides Datisi

imagine me as cop.
there would be no hesitation to end me today.

yes but you have a killable face :3

(this is a joke)

[Firebringer]

i read it as a joke but then it was ruined by including the disclaimer.
rip

[mastina]

Who are the 4 other crazy mofos

The 5 are:
Shea
Me
Mastina
Titus
You
and before you say you would never do that, come on now.

You're not on the council so it can't be you.

And Datisi is not among those names nor is fireisredsir--so with three scum alive it'd either need to be one of them dictating the actions for all of them,
Or 2/3 of them being scum with them overriding the name not on the list.

Since it couldn't be you.
That means that in order for scum to do it the team would need to be Shea on the council dictating everything + 2,
Shea/mastina/Datisi (exactly),
Shea/Titus/Datisi (exactly),
Shea/Fire +1,
Firebringer (dictating everything) +2,
Firebringer/mastina/Datisi (exactly),
Firebringer/Titus/Datisi (exactly),
Or Titus/mastina/Datisi (exactly).

I know it's not me.
Firebringer if he was scum could and likely would just lie about coins, since we'd need to take his word on everything.

So the only team that would realistically be possible is Shea +2, with Shea dictating everything--but if Shea were scum, then why did he choose an all-town council and then place town on it when town members died?

The council mathematically can't have scum on it realistically speaking.

There's not a viable scumteam combo.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i read it as a joke but then it was ruined by including the disclaimer.
rip

fuck

but if i don't include the disclaimer i might hurt someone

shit this is a catch 22

[mastina]

I'm being honest I don't see how it's different mechanically to lim Datisi now or tomorrow, and I know the difference in information we will have doing a non-datisi elim today vs post-datisi flip.

Yeah--that the non-Datisi elimination gives us a hell of a lot more info.

A Datisi townflip tells us exactly what we already fucking knew.

The council is all town, always has been, and the scum really want its members dead and tried N4 to kill there but failed and we fucking did their job for them.

A non-Datisi elim either nets us an extra scum or narrows the pool down on who the scum can be by a suffocating amount.

[Firebringer]

i read it as a joke but then it was ruined by including the disclaimer.
rip

fuck

but if i don't include the disclaimer i might hurt someone

shit this is a catch 22

got to small print it and put more spaces so it gives a few more seconds for reader to see the joke before getting to disclaimer.

[mastina]

The scum really want the tracker power, for whatever reason.

That would require a scum on the council...

Yes, yes it would!

Scum can't get the tracker power without being on the council, now, can they?

Now how do scum not on the council get on the council?

I'm town but I got added after Johnny was eliminated and Shea gave me both of his powers.

Now imagine what happens if instead of town being added, it's scum.

It's

almost

like you're fucking proving my point.

[Firebringer]

The scum really want the tracker power, for whatever reason.

That would require a scum on the council...

Yes, yes it would!

Scum can't get the tracker power without being on the council, now, can they?

Now how do scum not on the council get on the council?

I'm town but I got added after Johnny was eliminated and Shea gave me both of his powers.

Now imagine what happens if instead of town being added, it's scum.

It's

almost

like you're fucking proving my point.

GL point is killing me doesn't add a seat for the scum to join the council tho.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

i read it as a joke but then it was ruined by including the disclaimer.
rip

fuck

but if i don't include the disclaimer i might hurt someone

shit this is a catch 22

got to small print it and put more spaces so it gives a few more seconds for reader to see the joke before getting to disclaimer.

spoken like a true expert

[Firebringer]

what if theres a secret part of the tracker role that only scum know about. Like what if the tracker is town and lives for more than 2 days the town auto wins. THIS EXPLAINS EVERYTHING

[mastina]

I don't really give a shit what you think Datisi is.

I don't give a fuck what YOU think about Datisi because as far as I am concerned he's conftown.

Your logic is fucking bad and you know that. It's better to have miselims with MORE info than less.

No, yours is the bad logic--yes it's better to have mislims with more info than less.

A Datisi elimination REMOVES information. It doesn't give information. It REMOVES information. So your logic is the logic that fucking sucks because YOU are actively campaigning for a plan that would

deprive the town of information

.

You said it yourself; it's better to have mislims with more information than less, but a Datisi elimination isn't an elimination which gives info.

[mastina]

Yeah also it's not just resolving Datisi a Datisi townflip literally 100% clears three players
That's valuable in and of itself

2/3 of those players are already cleared 98%.

An extra 2% at the cost of another 98% cleared player is never worth it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't really give a shit what you think Datisi is.

I don't give a fuck what YOU think about Datisi because as far as I am concerned he's conftown.

Your logic is fucking bad and you know that. It's better to have miselims with MORE info than less.

No, yours is the bad logic--yes it's better to have mislims with more info than less.

A Datisi elimination REMOVES information. It doesn't give information. It REMOVES information. So your logic is the logic that fucking sucks because YOU are actively campaigning for a plan that would

deprive the town of information

.

You said it yourself; it's better to have mislims with more information than less, but a Datisi elimination isn't an elimination which gives info.

IFF you blindly believe Datisi is town, which I DON'T. It's less info EXPLICITLY if you have no concerns. You seem to be the only one who doesn't get this.

[UNOwen]

Because the scum didn't know who to kill and in all probability, just shot Firebringer.
Something council members would know not to do.

HahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahHahahahahahahahhaha

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You arrogantly act as if your solve is the only solve that matters and your world is the only one which is true but it's not.

[UNOwen]

After Firebringer flips scum I want to execute every single one of the council