Newbie 2107 | Random Music | Postgame

[chazary]

Since we’re talking about voting who we want to lim now, I should just clarify that my vote on Redados does not reflect that. I would vote Hyrule but it seems too soon for E-1 (not sure if I’m using that right).

[chazary]

I always be starting pages

[biancospino]

VOTE: Hyrule

This is E-2

Yes. Is declaring E-

n

when voting just generally good etiquette for small values of

n

? If yes, sorry and I'll try to keep that in mind

[biancospino]

I always be starting pages

It's only been three times, but you are indeed the player who did that the most times so far

[Hellhound1]

Spoiler: Regarding Redados' recent comments:

I’m certainly not trying to do anything big brain

I thought you were playing 4D chess at this point. All feels a bit chaotic.

Red, you're doing a lot of guiding (it is a newbie game after all) however you're not really contributing, pressuring or questioning. Yes, there is some urgency now for town to do something, so what can you say you've done so far? You seem pretty certain HH is town, so why is your vote still on him? Is there anyone else you suspect? Can you provide reasons for this?

I’m playing the game in a way that’s fun for me. I’m refreshing the thread multiple times per hour while I’m awake, having many one to one interactions, poking and guiding, and kind of doing a stream of consciousness thing. I don’t tend to play like this indefinitely but I’m happy with my play so far. At some point I’ll have to sit back and get more analytical, but I’m not there yet. Talk to me and I’ll talk back, as I have all game. If I missed something you want a response to, let me know.

Re: the vote. I have a feeling that getting off an elim today will be like pulling teeth. I’m less interested in casing anyone and more interested in making sure the elimination happens.

This frustrates me a little - We're already lacking info on a slot, and you acknowledge that an elim will be hard. And yet you share none of your actual thoughts. I do like that you are encouraging newbies to post and interact, but is that inherently town if you're not also providing your own value?

Your vote is on HH and yet you have suggested you think he is town, or rather that his posts are newb town and not scum. So, why is your vote still on HH? You've not answered my question. You have even alluded to this yourself, so whats the reason?

[chazary]

I mean, things have definitely gotten started and warmed up. There are plenty of things to talk about. For example:
1) I haven’t unvoted you
2) I have two votes on me
3) many people have posted but haven’t really posted yet.
4) everything you say is unrelated to each other and you keep pulling the conversation in different directions

How do those things make you feel?

if you guys are looking for other stuff to spot re: my play, I've been "defending" hyrule, but have kept my vote on him.

At first, post 24 didn’t strike me as odd. But now that you’ve called out your own play twice, both in attempt to get someone else’s analysis, I gotta say it raises some flags. Which flags, though, I’m not so sure. You could be calling out your own play in order to spit out a predetermined response designed to make you look better. You could also just be trying to incite discussion but for whatever reason only about you.

The first example is purely me trying to get us out of RVS.

Totally get that and don’t doubt you at all. More suspicious of your second post here. Just pointing out a possible pattern (is it a pattern if it only happened twice? Idk)

[Redados]

Introduction and Tips

Introduction and Tips

Voting, E-x, and Hammers

E-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from elimination. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at E-1 (1 vote away from an elimination) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that player's elimination. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to eliminate (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see E-2 and E-3 (2 votes away from elimination and 3 votes away from elimination, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being eliminated, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at E-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting eliminated, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counterclaiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get eliminated for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

You should always declare E-1. It's good manners to declare E-2, and in a larger game maybe even E-3. If you're voting right after a vote count, there's less urgency to do that stuff, but the idea is to take away the option of scum claiming they didn't know what the vote count was.

Leaving in the other stuff above as well as we get to the end of day one - it would probably be best for anyone in their first game to read that stuff.

[chazary]

I always be starting pages

It's only been three times, but you are indeed the player who did that the most times so far

There should be a bonus star at the end for this kind of thing

[Redados]

Your vote is on HH and yet you have suggested you think he is town, or rather that his posts are newb town and not scum. So, why is your vote still on HH? You've not answered my question. You have even alluded to this yourself, so whats the reason?

I'm having trouble answering this without sounding wishy washy, but I'm feeling wishy washy.

[Redados]

Your vote is on HH and yet you have suggested you think he is town, or rather that his posts are newb town and not scum. So, why is your vote still on HH? You've not answered my question. You have even alluded to this yourself, so whats the reason?

I am voting him because I want to eliminate him. like I already said, I don't plan to case anyone else today. I don't feel very strongly about who we eliminate today. Just want to get us across the finish line.

[biancospino]

@redados thanks for the heads up, will keep in mind.

HH is limbait

Let me ask something, please only answer with a boolean.
Do you still think that the quoted post is true?

[Redados]

yep I do. I think that it's really easy to push for him to be eliminated regardless of his alignment.

[Redados]

and I'm not voting him because I think he's scum, but because I can't case anyone else and I think he's our easiest path to voting someone out today.

[Redados]

we vote someone out because a) math and 2) we learn stuff from it. let's vote someone out. let's learn from it.

[Redados]

Unofficial vote count:

HyruleHitman7 (3) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (2) - Brickwalll, chazary
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

Not Voting - Elmo TeH AzN

Unofficial vote count representing Chazary's FOS:

HyruleHitman7 (3+1) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino, (chazary)
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (1) - Brickwalll
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

[Redados]

Unofficial vote count:

HyruleHitman7 (3) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (2) - Brickwalll, chazary
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

Not Voting - Elmo TeH AzN

Unofficial vote count representing Chazary's FOS:

HyruleHitman7 (3+1) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino, (chazary)
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (1) - Brickwalll
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

My thoughts on this:

Baron really needs to get more focused with his vote because this Elmo vote gets worse and worse for town the longer he leaves it there
Going by true vote count, the counter wagon to Hyrule is me. Obviously I choose to vote out Hyrule over me.
Going by the vote count inside of chazary's heart, we are super split across many people. Obviously this starts with Baron re-voting. Hyrule voting elsewhere is sound. I think that speaks to his town points that he's not voting me, even though I'm the counter wagon. Kind of torn here. Instinctually wanting to vote Hellhound now but that feels emotional rather than logical.

I don't think Hyrule can be scum with Hellhound. I think Hyrule would be scum with Baron or Elmo, based on the above.

[Redados]

@Hyrule, in the interest of displaying what you're feeling, please cast a vote (or if you really don't want to, at least a FOS, thou such reluctance would merit some explanation)

I wanted to be careful with my vote. Now I realize it's better to try to keep things moving, and avoid complacency. There aren't any people that I'm sure are scum, but hellhound is, as I've mentioned, at the top of my list. So naturally, I'm pretty sure it's him before anyone else. So that's who I'm going to place my vote on. It's not because he voted me. Of course I know it looks this way, but to me logic dictates that I vote who ever I feel is scummiest.

VOTE: Hellhound1

can you case hellhound please

[Alianna]

Puppet by Faouzia

Day 1 Count VI

HyruleHitman7 (3) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino
Redados (2) - Brickwalll, chazary
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

Not Voting

- Elmo TeH AzN

Notes

• The combined mod ISO is here.
  
• With 9 alive, it takes 5 to form a majority.
  
• RH is V/LA until December 19th.

The

Day

concludes in (expired on 2022-12-21 14:10:00).

[Redados]

kinda sus that the mod only posts the official vote count and not the vote count inside of chazary's heart.

[CCGeek]

hello, game. I wasn't able to keep up w/ the recent influx of posts, kind of swamped IRL, will catch up in time and share my thoughts. But from what I've gotten from skimming, tho, HH spoke up and shared reads due to pressure on him, with a plausible explanation for his previous behaviour. And suspects hh. Elmo still hasn't posted. Red makes a bigbrain play to root himself and Brickwall in the towncore permanently. Did I miss anything?

I don't like this post. For one thing, it transparently attempt to convey no content, which is already fishy. But most concerningly it tries to weasel in some nontrivial notions;

it quietly states that HH's explanations wrt. his behaviour are "plausible"

, which is dubious and in fact has been point of contention -- and also, it attempts to put words in Red's mouth which would have some implications.

Is CCG attempting to sneakily cover HH a bit or I'm overreading this?

Tbh it seems like you've misunderstood my intent. I have been suffering from slight activity issues recently due to IRL reasons and I haven't been able to invest as much time in this game as I would have liked. Therefore, I decided to bring that up and understand the general read consensus from potential replies without having to dedicate time to carefully read the entire thing myself (I'm lazy, ik). I failed in felicitating such a reply to my post, but Baron shared his list of reads later, which helped me gain a ton of perspective.

Also, in this post, while stating my opinion on the pressure on HH, I simply agreed with a previous sentiment that HH fits the noob!town profile. Now, I do see that how me and HH mutually tr-ing each other can become suspicious wrt your post. But, with this being HH's first game on the forum (I believe Red mentioned this somewhere), it definitely is plausible to read HH's behaviour as towny. According to him, he initially posted theory because he believed that it was the way he could push the game forward. If y'all remember your first games, I'm definitely sure y'all will remember going in with some amount of preconception about how to play as town, and then getting corrected along the way, or maybe in extreme scenarios, even getting voted out due to your behaviour not matching how townies generally play (this was me in my first game). However, to refer to HH's posts after pressure built up on him, and people (hh IIRC?) asked him to share his reads, HH realised that his preconceptions were not entirely correct. And unlike me in my first game, he managed to put his head back into the game by sharing his reads. This makes me highly TR him right now. My purpose behind wanting pressure on HH led me to this conclusion. I beg your pardon if I had failed to make myself clear in #240.

However, I do not have a final opinion on whether he is the correct elim choice today. I'm inexperienced in forum mafia. Are 3 days enough with the current amount of activity to decide on an elim choice?

But yes, if HH flips green, I'm pretty sure the main SR falls on hh? I'd like to see people's thoughts on him as of rn. A part of town alr sees him as a scumlean amirite? (speaking of which, Baron sharing a detailed read list makes me feel way better about him than before.) I wanted to revisit hh's interactions with HH, and then, while reading hh's ISO, I realised there are some lines that can be read as noob!scum:

Sorry, i might be misunderstanding here so can you explain what you mean by the above for me? Why is the third vote least suspicious?

followed by

Ah, i tend not to put too much weight to where votes are placed at this point, but I understand you might, so i appreciate your thoughts there.

Why? Should i not be scum hunting? What else am I to do? My vote isn't permanent and I can change if I feel a better option comes up, so whats the harm in voting?

The way he poses these questions makes me feel like he's noob!scum trying to up his game while trying to remain under a townguise. (remember, we know he's not a SE)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Hellhound1

Also, to share my thoughts about possible scumpartners to him, I kind of feel like it's a non-SE as well. IMO any experienced scum will try to distance themselves from their scumpartner if an opportunity presents itself, esp if it's as early as d1. Looking back at the Spartan wagon I started, the ones who joined in are both townread by me. If hh flips red, I think bianco and esp. Red is cleared 100%, while sus falls on chazary mostly. Also hh + Elmo is a possibility at best, but I'm not sure if it's realistically feasible.

[CCGeek]

*cleared 100% in my perspective

[CCGeek]

@Red here's my incomplete case on hellhound, a lot more can be said but I'm on a time crunch rn

[Redados]

hmm.

[Hellhound1]

However, to refer to HH's posts after pressure built up on him, and people (hh IIRC?) asked him to share his reads, HH realised that his preconceptions were not entirely correct. And unlike me in my first game, he managed to put his head back into the game by sharing his reads. This makes me highly TR him right now.

Have you read his reads, though? I'd like for you to share which part of these make you highly TR him.

But yes, if HH flips green, I'm pretty sure the main SR falls on hh?

Why? What part of my thoughts on Hyrule have been scummy? I've asked him to explain himself and expand on his fence sitting reads, and he's failed to do this, and thrown two other names into the hat with no explanation or follow up. On top of that, he's had no other contribution to scum hunting so far. Other things have happened, and his entire scum read has been me, but that is

definitely

not because I voted for him.

while reading hh's ISO, I realised there are some lines that can be read as noob!scum:

Sorry, i might be misunderstanding here so can you explain what you mean by the above for me? Why is the third vote least suspicious?

followed by

Ah, i tend not to put too much weight to where votes are placed at this point, but I understand you might, so i appreciate your thoughts there.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here - I asked for clarification on a comment, and disagreed at that stage that vote placement was a major tell. In fact, I would say that I agree with the opposite of the suggested, and that the middle of a wagon is likely where you'll find scum, not at the start or end of it. But not on D1. Its more important people use their vote D1 so that D2 there is something to analyse.I'm not sure what you're getting at here - I asked for clarification on a comment, and disagreed at that stage that vote placement was a major tell. In fact, I would say that I agree with the opposite of the suggested, and that the middle of a wagon is likely where you'll find scum, not at the start or end of it. But not on D1. Its more important people use their vote D1 so that D2 there is something to analyse.

while reading hh's ISO, I realised there are some lines that can be read as noob!scum:

Why? Should i not be scum hunting? What else am I to do? My vote isn't permanent and I can change if I feel a better option comes up, so whats the harm in voting?

The way he poses these questions makes me feel like he's noob!scum trying to up his game while trying to remain under a townguise.

(remember, we know he's not a SE)

That seems a weird thing to bring up and I dont understand your point here. It was a question to Hyrule that you've taken out of context. Also, what does being or not being an SE give you, reads wise? Would you say Red's play so far is town simply because he's an SE?

If hh flips red, I think bianco and esp. Red is cleared 100%, while sus falls on chazary mostly. Also hh + Elmo is a possibility at best, but I'm not sure if it's realistically feasible.

Why is Red cleared 100% to you? Why is Chazary sus? Its great you're sharing this, but with no thought/analysis to why this is, it just sounds like you're trying to buddy Red and defend Hyrule with no actual reasoning.

[biancospino]

If hh flips red, I think bianco and esp. Red is cleared 100%, while sus falls on chazary mostly. Also hh + Elmo is a possibility at best, but I'm not sure if it's realistically feasible.

It may not be in my best interest to ask, but why exactly do you deem impossible for me to be hh!scum's partner? It is hard to look at my own behaviour from outside while pretending to doubt of me, but my interactions with that slot were mostly limited to:
1) casting a vote for Spartan, in a wagon that was there to elicit activity and not necessarily to eliminate; that could very well be just distancing, especially since Spartan's partner would possibly already know of Spartan's IRL issues and that there were hence very little chance the wagon would hold;
2) generally casting some vague doubt on hh, essentially agreeing with his stance w.r.t. HH, while nonetheless objecting to his line of reasoning; and I was not heavy handed either, in that I never actually explicitly accused him. Again, I guess this could possibly be just distancing.