i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[xyzzy]

votecount 1.13

remind me to drop my "time travel is canonically possible in the Monsters Inc universe" rant into one of these vote count flavor texts one of these days

7 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance, Lycanfire)
4 players voting for Ythan (Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, Gamma Emerald, HighPrincessErinys)
3 players voting for Ranger (Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, Elements)
2 players voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever, Ranger)
2 players voting for MathBlade (Frogsterking, Enchant)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

4 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, MathBlade)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes: this vote count is identical to the last one, but hey, it's been a few pages. p-edit: spoke too soon lol. non-p-edit: oh sick pagetop

[Lycanfire]

also, goes without saying that i think we should recall frogster and let the replacements deal with it. i don't think it's productive for the game if he peaces out to friday unless he has personal reasons vs. game reasons for not posting.

[Lycanfire]

I townread Morning Tweet and Erinys. StD seems good. Damn Ythan, you really pissed off a good crowd.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

CSF: Why is Frogster town? Did I miss a post of yours?

I think Frogs & Gamma are both town. I feel pretty good about calling Frogs town at this point based on my understanding of his scumrange, and Gamma is more of a vibe read

& scumrange, cont with a metacase from another game

Spoiler: post 760

I would believe this if he wasn’t continually circling back to the same few central ideas. When my thought process runs wild, it becomes completely erratic.

He's town and tunneled on you & Titus scum. That's why he keeps coming back to the same central ideas.

615 it may be fair but it doesn't make sense as an excuse as they've "engaged" the game this way on all days, not just Christmas.

I didn't like her recent pop in fwiw

This seems like a really wild take and it is also something I might expect from town Titus maybe. I was wondering if it was a bad look for Chungus and Dragons to be refusing to vote each other in the way that they are.

This is a sample even though we found each other fast that game. Town!Frogster expects "off the wall" takes from my perspective. He still engages even when I FoS him. In fact my off the wall take was based off VCA, which I could have included in my case here.

You're reading the games very differently right now, so it makes sense for Frogster to naturallya be suspicious of you. Hence, he's also treating you differently & engaging differently. Have you played with Scum!Frogster? (Actually, do you remember my meta towncase on him in LOST?) I think he's far out of his scum comfort zone here.

I think all 3 of {Frogs, Gamma, Titus} are town, and this continued back and forth is damaging to the game state.

i'm at page 41 and i would like to see him dead right now. why is VOTE: frogsterking a bad vote?

Yes, he's town by meta. He's a bit of a lurker with low energy as scum. These things that people are latching onto - solves that change every other page & aggression - are actually town indicative for him. I don't see him trying to come up with a PoE of 4 people and constantly adjusting it as scum.

what made you want to vote him?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VOTE: furtive

I'm starting to doubt that Quiet Owl is scum. Them townreading Frogs while dropping a large play-by-play analysis where they say things like "I make posts like this as scum" is still wild to me, but I feel like this kind of blatant inconsistency comes from Town more often than Scum. Their opinion of his slot as tilted town rather than scum is also a good holistic take that I think is townie.

[Lycanfire]

972-973 is pretty bad. I didn't have a problem with the Tris slot other than taking awhile to answer my early game question.

987 at this point I was feeling like he was going for anything that would stick.

The concept of elim pools goes back to:
793 - Quiet Owl/Ythan/Furtive/George
799 - Ythan/furtive/George
847 - Furtive/Quiet Owl/Ythan/George
then 972 this erodes to Mathblade per "policy" which reads more like personal vendetta and can't possibly be a real argument

Let's look at the vote counts:

Spoiler: scroll of doom

votecount 1.09

boxing day?

4 players voting for imaginality (furtiveglance, Ranger, Lycanfire, HighPrincessErinys)
4 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality)
3 players voting for Ranger (Titus, Gamma Emerald, Quiet Owl)
2 players voting for Elements (Save The Dragons, Cat Scratch Fever)
2 players voting for furtiveglance (tris, Elements)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)
1 player voting for Titus (Frogsterking)

6 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Enchant, Morning Tweet, GeorgeBailey)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes: Vaxkiller and Tapiocaphobe have 24 hours from this vote count to post or be replaced. prodding Morning Tweet and Enchant.

tris has requested a replacement.

gonna edit a vote count into this post later.

votecount 1.10

Spider-Man is best known for his trusty hammers, which he uses to kill the Joker

6 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance)
4 players voting for furtiveglance (tris, Morning Tweet, Save The Dragons, Frogsterking)
3 players voting for imaginality (Ranger, Lycanfire, HighPrincessErinys)
1 player voting for Ranger (Quiet Owl)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)
1 player voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever)

7 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Enchant, GeorgeBailey, Gamma Emerald, Elements)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes:

votecount 1.11

since vote count 1.10 was edited into the post, you probably didn't see the flavor text to that one. you may check it now if you'd like, or you can not bother if you'd prefer. no sweat either way

6 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance)
6 players voting for Ythan (Elements, Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, Gamma Emerald, HighPrincessErinys, Cat Scratch Fever)
2 players voting for furtiveglance (tris, Frogsterking)
1 player voting for imaginality (Ranger)
1 player voting for Ranger (Quiet Owl)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

6 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Enchant, GeorgeBailey, Lycanfire)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes: prodding GeorgeBailey and Not_Mafia.

VOTECOUNT

6 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance)
4 players voting for Ythan (Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, Gamma Emerald, HighPrincessErinys)
4 players voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking, Elements, Ranger)
1 players voting for furtiveglance (tris)
1 player voting for Ranger (Quiet Owl)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

the only reason i'm not switching my vote to frog right now is because i am well aware that i am being pressured. so i'm going to do the evaluation that i should have done ages ago, and then decide from there.

You have nothing to offer me Owl unless you're willing to help kill furtive.

what a transparent attempt at intimidation.

votecount 1.12

I've actually spent a lot of time on Drury Lane and I never once saw this so-called "muffined man"

6 players voting for Frogsterking (McMenno, Ythan, KittyTacky, imaginality, Titus, furtiveglance)
4 players voting for Ythan (Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, Gamma Emerald, HighPrincessErinys)
3 players voting for Ranger (Quiet Owl, GeorgeBailey, Elements)
2 players voting for Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever, Ranger)
2 players voting for MathBlade (Frogsterking, Enchant)
1 player voting for Not_Mafia (Not_Mafia)

5 players not voting (Vaxkiller, tapiocaphobe, kitten around, Lycanfire, MathBlade)

with 23 votes, it takes 12 to eliminate.

mod notes:

# of players in the pool showing up in wagons: 3 (Ythan, Quiet Owl, Furtive)

Players voting frogster's pool:
Furtive (tris, Elements, Morning Tweet, Save The Dragons, Frogsterking, Cat Scratch Fever)
Ythan (Elements, Save The Dragons, Morning Tweet, Gamma Emerald, HighPrincessErinys, Cat Scratch Fever)
Quiet Owl (Cat Scratch Fever, Frogsterking, Elements, Ranger)

Interestingly, Frogster never voted for Ythan outside of RVS. I guess calling them 3p is good cover to not vote them, but it never seemed like they were serious about this slot. Ythan's replacement pending posted: 842

p-edit added CSF to Furtive list

[Lycanfire]

I'll read your meta argument CSF, but my impression is that this slot is scum and it's making me question why I ever townread the slot at all. Probably because I was questioning if I was frogster's alt when I was doing a small meta dive myself on them.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

All right. I don't disagree with 973 being bad - I don't think Math was outing any more claims than was necessary. I just don't think it overrides everything else I know about his town & scumgames.

[KittyTacky]

i assume that a jester!frog here wins when dead, in which case the course of action here is probably to ignore him completely until we have reason to suspect that he's a different sort of scum?

mcmenno mentioned having a role that interferes with investigatives so i assume that if true that's a counter to someone else's role. would be a convenient way of resolving the frog conundrum.

The problem with leaving a jest alive is that they can derail discussions and make it hard to scumhunt. I'm still not sure if he's actually jester or just scum acting like jester tho.

I hope there's a vig.

Why aren't you engaging on any of the reasons people have put forth for Frogs being town & just repeating that Frogs is scum ad nauseam?

They did not convince me, simple as.

[Lycanfire]

I'm curious, what's to stop frogster from emulating your tells (aggressive townblocking, changing reads on a fly, activity)? Or, for you to coach him and let him run amok and rein everyone back in after he's had his fun? Your previous reads are

SO VERY SPECIFIC

to his play in this game.

Sometimes scums are just hungry for a breakout game. in [url=viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78725]large normal 218[/post] I metadove and profiled every single player including my teammates as scum because I was determined to puppetmaster the hell out of the fucking game. Up until this point none of my scum wins felt like they were worth anything. You gave him a roadmap, that's something that's really only good once. Will his slot continue to resolve further for you?

[Lycanfire]

I'll agree large normal 238

is

massively different for frogster. his play can be summed up as a tunnelfuck. he never seemed to try to townbloc outside of his "if you want a pure wagon" comment.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm curious, what's to stop frogster from emulating your tells (aggressive townblocking, changing reads on a fly, activity)? Or, for you to coach him and let him run amok and rein everyone back in after he's had his fun? Your previous reads are

SO VERY SPECIFIC

to his play in this game.

Sometimes scums are just hungry for a breakout game. in [url=viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78725]large normal 218[/post] I metadove and profiled every single player including my teammates as scum because I was determined to puppetmaster the hell out of the fucking game. Up until this point none of my scum wins felt like they were worth anything. You gave him a roadmap, that's something that's really only good once. Will his slot continue to resolve further for you?

I think what you're asking can apply to almost any metaread. Maybe he wants to dedicate a lot of time & effort to winning the game. That still means that on balance, it's more likely that my read is right. For this specific case, he has improved his scumgame most recently in viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89984 and upped his activity, so I'm aware of the potential pitfalls of my read & what you're asking here, but I think his play in the Mini Normal is still noticeably different from his towngame. I've kept abreast of his meta differences, basically.

As for what's to stop me from coaching him, the reason is because meta tends to not be very appealing to many people. I've given a similar metaread on him in LOST, and Frogs was almost limmed day 1 anyway (he was only spared by someone gladiating someone else only to be vigged night 1 lol). Emulating your town meta when your town meta gets you killed more often than not is not really an effective approach.

[Lycanfire]

this meta read smells FRESH



i'll read through it later because i'm a tease and must sleep

[Cat Scratch Fever]

It's

raw

[Elements]

VOTE: frog

[Frogsterking]

I'll break my silence to say I am a TPR with big swing for Town and if a rolestopper is available then I request they visit me tonight because it is important that I get my shots off at night. I feel okay soft claiming because:

1) it's immediately obvious that I am a TPR due to how I am approaching the game, especially to scum, therefore
2) scum may opt to roleblock me if available, in order to waste more of town's time tinfoiling my slot
3) I have finally identified a solid N1 target for my ability, and a roleblocker may not have realized that I require their assistance
4) While I was away I created a new list of D1 candidates for D1 lim (who I am suggesting because my impression is that guidance is required on slots who actually make sense to vote D1:)

Furtive/kittens/George/Enchant

George, furtive, and kittens are all scummy based on simple tells which are easy to spot, while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT. Quiet Owl and MathBlade I swapped out because they are generating more associative tells with other players, commenting on a wider variety of things and in my experience I don't think they are as likely to flip scum as Enchant or George are.

I'm still intending to ghost the thread until Friday night, and after that, I may ghost the thread again for a couple days. Unless anything important happens then I'll mainly just be posting a reads list and maybe my meta case on Gamma. I'm somewhat apathetic who gets voted out as long as it's one of those four. I'd rather other people discuss and choose so the discussion can be read D2. Opportunity to policy lim Mathblade revoked, and I'm switching my vote to furtive because I have a slight preference for that slot over the others:

VOTE: furtiveglance

[Enchant]

I'll break my silence to say I am a TPR with big swing for Town and if a rolestopper is available then I request they visit me tonight because it is important that I get my shots off at night. I feel okay soft claiming because:

1) it's immediately obvious that I am a TPR due to how I am approaching the game, especially to scum, therefore
2) scum may opt to roleblock me if available, in order to waste more of town's time tinfoiling my slot
3) I have finally identified a solid N1 target for my ability, and a roleblocker may not have realized that I require their assistance
4) While I was away I created a new list of D1 candidates for D1 lim (who I am suggesting because my impression is that guidance is required on slots who actually make sense to vote D1:)

Furtive/kittens/George/Enchant

George, furtive, and kittens are all scummy based on simple tells which are easy to spot, while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT. Quiet Owl and MathBlade I swapped out because they are generating more associative tells with other players, commenting on a wider variety of things and in my experience I don't think they are as likely to flip scum as Enchant or George are.

I'm still intending to ghost the thread until Friday night, and after that, I may ghost the thread again for a couple days. Unless anything important happens then I'll mainly just be posting a reads list and maybe my meta case on Gamma. I'm somewhat apathetic who gets voted out as long as it's one of those four. I'd rather other people discuss and choose so the discussion can be read D2. Opportunity to policy lim Mathblade revoked, and I'm switching my vote to furtive because I have a slight preference for that slot over the others:

VOTE: furtiveglance

VOTE: Frog

[Enchant]

Btw i am also powerful town role. Please all protectives on me.

No proofs.

[Frogsterking]

3) I have finally identified a solid N1 target for my ability, and a rolestopper may not have realized that I require their assistance

EBWOP rolestopper

[Frogsterking]

Btw i am also powerful town role. Please all protectives on me.

No proofs.

while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT.

I knew you were here and only protectives with multitargetting can be on you. *ghosts away*

[Quiet Owl]

.............................................
yes i too am most powerful wizard i am very trustworthy yes yes.
the above is sarcasm.

either this ends the game, or this ends the day and we have a 50/50 chance of catching scum. i am tired and in a gambling mood. VOTE: Frogsterking

NOTE THAT FROG IS AT E-2 NOW

[Enchant]

Btw i am also powerful town role. Please all protectives on me.

No proofs.

while my read on Enchant is both based and based on similarity to their scumgame in TfT.

I knew you were here and only protectives with multitargetting can be on you. *ghosts away*

If i kill you all protectives will be mine

[Elements]

.............................................
yes i too am most powerful wizard i am very trustworthy yes yes.
the above is sarcasm.

either this ends the game, or this ends the day and we have a 50/50 chance of catching scum. i am tired and in a gambling mood. VOTE: Frogsterking

NOTE THAT FROG IS AT E-2 NOW

So with N_M in the game frog is at E-1

[MathBlade]

I kinda think Frog is scum but at the same time this wagon feels scummy?

I realize this is a contradiction but it really feels like that. Words are not coming to me but the fast build up of votes generally (not always) happens when scum fear a miselim. But at the same time “Don’t kill me I am god’s gift to the game” is really scummy too.

Does anyone else get that vibe?

Like I am okay with a frog elim going through because he’s independently scummy but something strikes me as sus.

[Elements]

Idk, I'm voting because I want blood. The game's beginning very cyclical at this point and I don't think anything helpful will happen until we've had good