Mini 696 ~ Scum o' the Sea ~ Game Over

[Huntress]

Ahoy there!

I'll just be getting me bearings then we'll see which scurvy dog needs to get his just deserts a'swinging from the yardarm!

[Huntress]

@ Erratus Apathos: Why are you voting for Gremwell?

@ Crywolf: Which is worse, a player who posts but doesn't really say anything? Or a player who doesn't post and is replaced by one who gets involved?

Yar, I be keepin' the black spot on Gremwell till our Cap'n gives us information on how long we be on deck. Then I be considerin' his fate again.

Have you reconsidered since the deadline was confirmed?

... are you telling me it's scummy to be suspicious of a wagon starting like that?

Maybe not scummy to be suspicious of it; but to be nervous of it? Arrh! Thats a different matter. And what is suspicious about an early day two bandwagon on a lurker? If two votes can even be called a bandwagon.

humscunter seems to be AWOL

More to come later.

[Huntress]

Vote: Springlullaby

This is my personal choice for the next wagon. This is more of a vibe I'm getting from him than actual evidence I can back up, though.

Just the next wagon? Or are you going for a lynch here? Apart from posts 207 and 222, almost all your posts suggest to me that you're just tagging along after targets picked by others.


@ Springlullaby: Who are your three highest suspects at the moment?


@ Gremwell: What do you make of EA and Jebus?

I am just waiting for Clock to reply to the questions that have been asked of him.

And what did you make of his replies?



At the moment Clockwork is top of my list, then Gremwell, with a couple more close behind.

[Huntress]

Huh. This is funny because that's not what I got for my vanilla PM.

They may not all be the same, and you know he's not allowed to quote too closely - in fact, that response leads me to:

Vote: crywolf

although I may switch to clockwork or EA later.

We have to lynch before the deadline, and THE DEADLINE IS TOMORROW. I wanted to lynch crywolf, but now is not the time to be uncompromising.

Is this your

only

reason! It might be acceptable just before the deadline but you voted for Gremwell more than two days before. You must have had more reasons than this?

[Huntress]

At the moment Clockwork, Crywolf and EA are looking the scummiest, particularly in the way they rushed the lynch after Goatrevolt seemed to be thinking about taking his vote off Gremwell.

I also note that Jebus jumped off the Gremwell wagon for springlullaby, a highly unlikely play if they were scumbuddies.

Maybe he just didn't want to be associated with the lynch of someone he knew was a townie? And his vote was only the second on SL; she wasn't in any danger. Also can I have a rely to the question in my last post please?

[Huntress]

I like the idea of a mass claim because you can catch someone with the flavor.

Like you claimed to in post 238? It didn't work there!

I'm not sure whether a mass-claim is a good idea or not (lack of experience speaking here) but if we have one I'd be willing to go along with it.

If we do have a mass claim I would like Clockwork to claim first. Crywolf has already claimed townie, a claim which I find very dubious, in the light of the fact that Gremwell was innocent, but it's not impossible that there are different types of vanilla townie. I'd also like EA to claim early; I still want to know why voting for someone you apparently have no suspicion of, a full two days before a deadline, can be considered pro-town.

And if two votes that close to deadline isn't any danger, why did you later insist on voting an empty wagon?

I voted for the one I found I found most suspicious at the time. With a day to go before the deadline there was still plenty of time for me to change my vote if necessary but it seems Clockwork didn't want to give people time to react to Crywolf's objection to Gremwell's claim.

I doubt the chances of the scum having fake claims.

Why?

@ Springlullaby: Who are your three highest suspects at the moment?

I am just waiting for Clock to reply to the questions that have been asked of him.

And what did you make of his replies?

Still waiting for answers to these.

[Huntress]

I haven't got three suspects as of right now but as a matter of fact, I think you are pretty scummy.

I haven't got the time write a full case with quote right now but here are is the listing of the reasons why:

-too much cliche questions to feel genuine
-soft vote
-crappy and monolithic cliche reasons to be suspecting the three you have mentioned today (this is a big one, been there done that, as scum)
-a general 'look I'm so town'-ness while your contributions have been in fact subpar and offers no real insight
-unclear stance on mass claim - I made once the exact answer you did as newb scum - which offers nothing of your intuition of how mass claim may work out based on your own role PM

-------------------------------------------------------------

I'm against massclaim, there hasn't been powerole outed as of yet so it is unwise to force it.

As far as catching scum based on flavor go 1)I'm sure any mod worth their money has thought of that 2)complicated flavor is generally as likely to catch town than scum.

To reply to your list of reasons:
1) Each question was asked for a reason - to get answers and/or reactions.
2) What do you mean by "soft vote"?
3) I haven't actually given my reasons for my current suspicions, apart from a comment on the lynch, so I don't see how you can describe them as monolithic or cliche.
4) Please explain this comment.
5) What did you find unclear about my stance on the mass-claim?

You say you are against a mass-claim yet you complain that I offer nothing of my intuition of how mass claim may work out based on my own role PM. Were you hoping to deduce my role from what I said while keeping your own secret?

What do you make of the way day two ended?

[Huntress]

Jebus' death last night raises several questions to me, primarily that of who is controlling the kills, since town died one night and scum died another.

It's possible there is a paranoid gun owner type role or some kind of redirector; or it could be that there were two killing roles active but one was blocked in some way.

I like the idea of a mass claim because you can catch someone with the flavor.

Like you claimed to in post 238? It didn't work there!

Or maybe it did work the way you wanted it? If not, why do you think it will work now?

I'd also like EA to claim early; I still want to know why voting for someone you apparently have no suspicion of, a full two days before a deadline, can be considered pro-town.

So since two days before the deadline is apparently too early, when does it become okay?

Maybe a lot closer to the deadline? I think you took your vote off Crywolf too soon.

And if two votes that close to deadline isn't any danger, why did you later insist on voting an empty wagon?

I voted for the one I found I found most suspicious at the time. With a day to go before the deadline there was still plenty of time for me to change my vote if necessary but it seems Clockwork didn't want to give people time to react to Crywolf's objection to Gremwell's claim.

What I mean is what did you hope to accomplish by voting Crywolf?

His lynch. I didn't like the way he denounced Gremwell and I was hoping that you and others would switch their votes to him.


@ Militant: From reading post 254, I got the impression that you weren't keen on a mass claim. Can you say why you are in favour of it please?


I'm coming to the conclusion that a mass claim would

not

be a good idea at the moment but if we do have one I would like Clockwork to claim first, and tell us why he doesn't think the scum have safe-claims.

[Huntress]

To reply to your list of reasons:
1) Each question was asked for a reason - to get answers and/or reactions.

Yet you have not, it seems, inferred anything from any of your questions. Scum, especially newer one, often thinks it makes them looks good to ask a lot of questions to look busy. However their downfall is that often their questions read like text-book scumhunting, and do not articulate a discernible train of thought. You see, town more often than do not fire questions to everyone and tend to be more focused (IMO the only way to get shit done actually), scum however often think that it is good show to ask question to about everyone, like you did at the beginning of this game, so they can a)look coherent when they jump on a random wagon later on b)distance from their buddies.

a) You make an assumption that I have inferred nothing from the answers. This is not true.
b) The questions did not show a discernible train of thought because they were separate questions, addressed to different players, for different reasons. The reason I asked you about your top suspects was because I couldn't find much about them in your posts.
c) This is not the first time I have asked questions like this on replacing into a game. See NB606.

2) What do you mean by "soft vote"?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#1362616

Vote on crywolf - 'althought you may switch later'? Tell me, why putting a vote at all only to say 'I may switch later'.

I'm going to answer in your stead shall I? I think you voted crywolf here because you knew she was wrong about Gremwell and his claim. And this is scummy because from my perspective I could have had the same doubts about that claim, and I think the only way you could have been sure crywolf was wrong, was if you are in the informed minority.

Now I'm going to point out Jebus' reaction to Gremwell's claim:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1362603
Looks the same as yours minus the vote doesn't it?

a) You have quoted me out of context here. I was not just saying that I might change the vote later; I was indicating who I would be willing to change it to if we came too close to the deadline without a consensus.
b) This "answer" you suggest here looks like another attempt at role-fishing on your part.

3) I haven't actually given my reasons for my current suspicions, apart from a comment on the lynch, so I don't see how you can describe them as monolithic or cliche.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 16#1370416
The suspicion stated here is cliche crap, and monolithic.

You are suspecting three persons for the same reason and that's not real scumhunting. From a town's perspective it is at no time reasonable to suspect three persons for the same thing, because someone genuinely scumhunting will often assume that not all scum will act the same; but from a scum perspective, they often can't get past a superficial need to maintain coherence by treating people equally for the same act.

Furthermore, you reason for throwing suspicions on the three you cited is simply bullshit: feels like cliche assumption that town would never rush a lynch forcibly applied to an event while totally disregarding the circumstances of the approaching deadline.

And you know what these suspicions just sound a little too much like 'look at me, I wasn't on that myslynch' for me to like it.

Of course that's not scumhuntiing! I said myself it was just a comment so why the diatribe about not being real scumhunting? And I know perfectly well that it's extremely unlikely that all three are scum but I'm pretty certain at least one of them, possibly two, is/are and until I know which I'm going to be suspicious of them all.

4) Please explain this comment.

It says what it says, I think your contribution looks busy, but for all your posts your contribution is totally subpar: you haven't expressed one single strong and clear opinion or conviction about anything. I'll go as far as saying you have been pretty much looking in plain sight.

You're welcome to your opinion .

5) What did you find unclear about my stance on the mass-claim?

I find you 'oh hay, I'm newb so I'll go along with people's opinion' terribly wishy-washy.

This is the first time I've been involved in a discussion about a mass claim and I'm not ashamed to admit I wasn't sure of the best thing to do. Since then I've come to the conclusion that it's not a good idea, as mentioned in my last post.

You say you are against a mass-claim yet you complain that I offer nothing of my intuition of how mass claim may work out based on my own role PM. Were you hoping to deduce my role from what I said while keeping your own secret?

Are you missing the fact that I expressed a strong stance on why we shouldn't massclaim? The difference between you position and mine is that I do give insight on what should or not should be done, it is a piece of me; whereas all you have said on massclaim is 'huh, I dunno'.
And your question here is pretty scummy because it smells of the beginning of an OMGUS.

No, I didn't miss that fact, but it wasn't relevant to my question. Why did you say I should base my decision on my own role PM rather than on what is better for the whole town?

What do you make of the way day two ended?

What do you mean specifically? You mean the Gremwell lynch? Well, I think it is unfortunate that the lynch was to meet deadline, I am certainly to blame because I wasn't around enough to make more discussion happen. But I think it is unfair and unreal to reproach the three that have voted to meet the deadline them 'rushing the lynch', because a mislynch is better than no-lynch (except in special circumstance, generally later in a game). Which doesn't mean that they couldn't be scum.

Except that the deadline wasn't due till the next day. So why not give more players a chance to react to Gremwell's claim and the responses to it? Goatrevolt had said said he was reconsidering and others may have too if given the chance. It was only two hours and 16 minutes after the claim that Clockwork hammered. Despite what he said in his hammer post the risk of a no-lynch wasn't that immediate.

I'll top this case with the following:

Vote: Springlullaby

This is my personal choice for the next wagon. This is more of a vibe I'm getting from him than actual evidence I can back up, though.

Just the next wagon? Or are you going for a lynch here? Apart from posts 207 and 222, almost all your posts suggest to me that you're just tagging along after targets picked by others.

This is one of the more definite suspicion you have expressed all day yesterday, but no actual vote.

With the confirmation of Jebus' alignment, I think it is bussing cum coaching.

Why would I vote for Jebus when I said, in the same post, that Clockwork was my top suspect? And what do you mean by "one of the more definite suspicion you have expressed all day yesterday"? I wasn't here all day! In fact that post, the second of the two I made with my questions after replacing in and doing an initial read, was less than ten hours before the hammer ended the day.

To summarise: I think you are reaching a lot here. You are making assumptions then basing your case on those assumptions rather than the facts and throwing in a lot of theory to hide the absence of actual evidence. You accuse me of not having strong opinions or convictions and yet up to now you have had very few yourself, despite the fact you've been here the whole game. Your attack on me almost looks as if you thought you'd found an easy target. I assure you that you haven't!

[Huntress]

Huntress restarted the wagon on crywolf with two days until deadline, and says she thought she thought she could have achieved a crywolf lynch. But when I pushed the idea that Jebus's vote on springlullaby was probably not a distancing attempt, Huntress countered by calling Jebus's vote not threatening. Jebus was the second vote for springlullaby, and cast it before her vote on crywolf - so if Huntress thought a crywolf lynch was plausible, why did she decry my position on springlullaby on the basis of a springlullaby lynch not being plausible?

Firstly, how could I

re-start

a wagon which never existed in the first place? As far as I can see there has never been more than one vote on her at any time. Secondly, I didn't say a Springlullaby lynch wasn't plausible, I said she wasn't in danger, which she wasn't when he switched. Before Jebus jumped, there were four votes on Gremwell (L-2) and you put it back to four before Gremwell put Springlullaby on three. I'm guessing that Jebus wanted to avoid being on the lynch but was too cautious to vote for someone not already on the list in case he got attacked for it.

As to why he chose SL, which you asked in 250 and I missed answering, I don't know. Maybe it was the other way round? Maybe one or both of the other two are his buddies and she isn't? I'm finding all three suspicious for various reasons so it could be either way.



A brief overview of my suspects:

ClockworkRuse: His posts about the day one bandwagon on militant gave me an odd vibe and there are signs of possible distancing from Jebus. I found his day two hammer very scummy. Then in post 253 he tries to dismiss the discussion of the lynch and diverts it by raising the idea of a mass claim. He is my top suspect at the moment.

Vote: ClockworkRuse

Crywolf: For her reaction to Gremwell's claim and her active lurking. Looking at her posts in isolation, there's almost nothing there; a point which she admits herself on a couple of occasions, and has ignored comments made to or about her in the thread.

@ Crywolf: Where do your suspicions lie at the moment?

Erratus Apathos: For the vote on Gremwell despite having no suspicion of him and for the attacks on Goatrevolt which seem to be reaching a lot.

Springlullaby: Not quite sure about her yet. I'm waiting for her responses before saying any more here but for current thoughts see the last paragraph of post 280.


I'm also wondering whether Crywolf and Springlullaby were partly to blame for Mitey-Mouse getting mod-killed in that they were encouraging her to push the boundaries of her post restriction.

[Huntress]

Either way, I have to claim today.

* Is curious *

Firstly, how could I

re-start

a wagon which never existed in the first place? As far as I can see there has never been more than one vote on her at any time.

Both of us were trying to start crywolf wagons, you after me, thus you restarted. Is there even a point to this question or are you just looking for something to nitpick?

Ah. I thought you were implying that I was trying to resurrect a wagon that had previously been built, discussed and discarded. IMO a single vote doesn't equal a wagon.

Secondly, I didn't say a Springlullaby lynch wasn't plausible, I said she wasn't in danger

...and the difference is what exactly?

The difference is that a Springlullaby lynch

was

plausible, but a second vote didn't put her in immediate danger when six votes were needed to lynch.

[Huntress]

And then the doc knows who to protect. I'm willing to bet there's a doc, given last night's kill.

If indeed there was a doc protect last night then I guess the doc already knows who to protect. By exposing other possible targets aren't you making it more difficult for the doc to know who to protect and easier for the scum to avoid the doc-protect?

I don't remember anyone supporting massclaim for flavor lynching.

How about these?

I like the idea of a mass claim because you can catch someone with the flavor.

I think we may just be able to work out who is scum based solely on flavour.

Your point about role actions makes sense although it would depend on whether there was enough information available from the actions to make it work.


Still waiting to hear from Crywolf and Springlullaby, both of whom have been posting elsewhere on the site (Crywolf quite extensively) in the last few days but not here.

[Huntress]

Huntress, I think your defense is okay on the reasonable level, but you see, I still think you are very high probability scum for the reasons I described.

I'd still like to see your responses to the points I made and the questions I asked you there.

And your attack on clockwork is pretty scummy too, because from where I sit, his push for massclaim is pretty protown.

Did you actually read my case against Clockwork? This is a textbook example of a strawman here.

Here I expect you to say something about my contradicting myself, and I'm going to pre-emptively answer you that this kind of argument show linear logic, which is very often indicative of scum, in line with Goatrevolt's accusation: sometimes town people are of a diverging opinion, it doesn't impede them from appearing town while expressing it.

Trying to put words into my mouth and pretending to answer them isn't going to fool anyone. I'd rather you just answered the questions I

have

asked.

Also, I'm noting your accusations of rolefishing, not that they holds ground (btw, 'informed minority' means scum), I think they are not in line with your play. In clear, I think that by accusing me of rolefishing you hope to subconsciously hint at you being a powerrole, but you see, I don't think any kind of town powerrole would have made the wishy-washy answer you first made in regard to massclaim.

No, I was purely and simply accusing you of role-fishing. In fact, your words here look like yet another attempt at it. Is the failure to get a result one of your reasons for being willing to agree to a mass claim after all?

[Huntress]

Ahoy tharr, Xtoxm! Welcome aboard

And the lack of activity just sucks so much it hurts.

I find this amusing considering it's your responses we're waiting for.

[Huntress]

Unvote
Vote: Erratus Apathos

while I think about Clockwork's claim.

[Huntress]

Huntress, what are you thinking about my claim?

It's plausible enough for me to decide against voting for you today but not enough by itself to completely convince me yet.


@ Xtoxm: I, too, would like an explanation of your suspicions. Your predecessors gave us next to nothing to judge them on so I'm eager to see what you have to say.


Still waiting to hear from Springlullaby and Crywolf.

[Huntress]

I don't like Springlullaby's latest post (335).

Second, Clock's claim is totally unexpected.

This just sounds a bit off. Overdone, maybe.

... town pretty much never guess that ...

Why not? My comment was a response to RandomGem's post btw.

Also, it didn't contain any of the answers I've been waiting for.

Unvote
Vote: Springlullaby

I'm inclined to believe Xtoxm's claim for the moment. It seems reasonable and fits with a comment RandomGem made about the nightkills. Although I don't understand why she is so sure that Clockwork is telling the truth.

Crywolf and Mili appear to be absent, so I would support their lynch.

Why?

I'll be around tomorrow to change my vote if necessary.

[Huntress]

Not without a claim, and I still can't see the case against him. Anyway, I think it's only L-2.

If you guys are being genuine, you will have no problem in formulating a proper case first. Then I'll answer it.

To summarise: I think you are reaching a lot here. You are making assumptions then basing your case on those assumptions rather than the facts and throwing in a lot of theory to hide the absence of actual evidence. You accuse me of not having strong opinions or convictions and yet up to now you have had very few yourself, despite the fact you've been here the whole game. Your attack on me almost looks as if you thought you'd found an easy target. I assure you that you haven't!

I've also pointed out about three attempts at role-fishing while she was saying she didn't want a mass-claim. That and other points are in post 307.

I'm willing to lynch either EA or Springlullaby today and I should be around right up to the deadline.

I've also been wondering whether a no-lynch would really be that bad in the light of what's been claimed today. If we do have two information roles we should learn something, either directly or indirectly, even without a lynch.

[Huntress]

There is no advantage to NL. Just lets the SK kill and Cult recruit. Only scum wants NL.

The SK can kill and the cult can recruit whether we have a lynch or not. I'm perfectly happy to lynch someone I suspect may be scum but I think we've got to the point where we don't have to lynch for the sake of it so I'd rather not vote for someone I think is townie.

[Huntress]

Unvote
Vote: Erratus Apathos

This won't make any difference unless the missing players turn up and vote, or switch votes, but it's worth a try.

[Huntress]

As we seem to be going ahead with the mass claim I'll add mine.

I am a common sailor with no special abilities and I carry a marline spike. This was why I immediately dropped my suspicion of Gremwell when he claimed, because, apart from the fact that he didn't use the word 'common', the rest of his claim was like mine. It's also why I didn't like Crywolf's rejection of his claim and Clockwork's quick hammer.

I'm going to be very short of time over the next few days. I'll try to get some posts in if I can but no guarantees. I'm still waiting for answers from Springlullaby but I think she's away until the new year.

[Huntress]

I'm the helmsman. I have a 1 shot ability where I can steer the ship into a squall and prevent any night abilities from being used that night. I used this ability last night for many different reasons, which I can elaborate on if needed.

The claim fits the theme but raises a few questions:

But yes, I was blocked, and my 1 shot was used up.

How do you know you were blocked last night?

I see Clockwork is also claiming to be blocked. I'm guessing his block was the result of the mafia. My block was obviously the result of Militant. The lack of a night kill I'm going to attribute to the scum trying to kill me last night.

Basically, there are two possibilities. Either I'm lying and tried to make a kill last night that was blocked by Militant, or I'm telling the truth and was the target of an attempted kill.

Wouldn't a global block supercede an individual block? Why do you think it was Militant and not you that stopped the kill or kills last night? If it was you then that would account for the block on Clockwork too. Your assumption that you would have been the target of any kills also seems a bit odd.

I think if you're willing to take the time and examine the situation, it's quite obvious which one is true. I didn't want to mass claim because I didn't want to expose my role. The role I have is extremely powerful, but is only 1 shot. It is so much more useful if it remained unclaimed. By claiming my role I give the scum perfect opportunities to roleblock me, or play around my ability. I mean, just consider last night. If you assume for a second that I'm telling the truth, then the scum would have roleblocked Clockwork and shot me. But hey, my ability would have been used, preventing the kill attempt on myself. Can you imagine the confusion that would have created for the scum? So much useful information would have been generated from nothing more than how people reacted to last night.

In addition, I think I set myself up to be the Night Kill for last night, which was going to be fine, since I had the trump card up my sleeve. I claimed to have a power role, but refused to claim it based on the idea that it was more powerful unclaimed. I was also strongly opposed to a mass claim. I have no idea what the scum thought I was, but it obviously was something they didn't want around.

I think if you're willing to take the time to read through my posts this game you will see that I'm telling the truth here.

Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to go for someone there was less chance of lynching? Or for someone who, in view of your soft claim, had less chance of being protected?

And to be honest, I think that we are in complete control of this game.

That begs the question, who do you mean by "we"?

(Sorry, just couldn't resist it!)

I'm a tracker (boatswain). Goat targeted Jebus night 2.

If he did, this would make him the Serial killer as his claim doesn't give any other reason for it.

it doesn't seem to benefit scum to fake-claim tracker.

Agreed, but I'm not entirely convinced in view of his past actions. I'll wait to hear what Goat has to say about it.


My chief suspect at the moment is Springlullaby for the reasons given earlier, and her failure to answer my questions and those that Goat raised.

Vote: Springlullaby

[Huntress]

I think we're waiting for Springlullaby now. She's the only one who hasn't claimed yet and I'm interested in seeing how her claim will fit in with the others. Also hoping she will finally answer the questions we've been asking her.

[Huntress]

Springlullaby's claim looks plausible but I'll be happier once I've had some reasonable responses from her to my earlier posts.

There's something that doesn't quite add up between Clockwork, EA and Goat but I'm going to have to re-read to work out just what it is.

[Huntress]

I can prevent one mislynch in twilight by giving rum to everyone on board, basically I'm a governor.

A quick question: Would you have used this power on a previous day if you thought it necessary?

Huntress asked me to answer her questions. I think her question sucksn are loaded and faulty, and fail in every way to show genuine assertiveness or scumhunting merit.

BUT I'm ok to answer them if she agrees to present her case on me properly in one tidy post. Something she is not going begrudge me if she is town and genuinely interested in finding out whether I'm scum, I'm sure.

My questions are clearly set out in my previous posts. I have no intention of cluttering up the thread for everyone by copying them all into a fresh post now.
The only reason I haven't made a clear case against you yet is because I was waiting for your answers to my questions before doing so. Those answers would have helped me get a clearer read on you and could even have lead to me dropping the case.

Springlullaby: Not quite sure about her yet. I'm waiting for her responses before saying any more here but for current thoughts see the last paragraph of post 280.

I'm still not sure but your refusal to respond to the points raised means that I can only go with what I said in post 353. As I can't see any pro-town reason for your not wanting to reply I can only conclude you must be anti-town and don't want to risk making a slip.

Why do you need a deadline extension? We've got nearly a week to go yet, haven't we?

And now to digest the rest of SL's post and the nearly 30 others that sprang up while I was sleeping!

[Huntress]

Now all this is working on the assumption that a cult exists, and this assumption needs to be examined: it is only Clockworkruse's word that made us aware of it.

This is a good point. And it raises another question. Wouldn't Militant's action on night two have blocked any recruitment attempt on Clockwork? How could he be recruited if he was shut in the brig for the night?

Townies never have inconsistencies like this. You know why? Because they are town and they play to better the town. When you look through their actions, you see that they all make sense from the perspective of someone out to win for the town.

If only it were that easy!

Xtoxm, what is your rolename? You actually never claimed it and that I don't like. Same for huntress. And what about the marline spike?

My rolename is "sailor" as stated in post 378. I assume the marline spike is just a bit of flavour, a tool of the trade (it's used for repairing rigging etc.).

Xtoxm can't be the SK. Humscumter and RandomGem were inactive during the periods when night kills occurred.

Humscunter could easily have been around the first night and according to the mod, RandomGem replaced in at the

beginning

of the second night. I think it's unlikely that Xtoxm is the SK but you can't rule him out on these grounds.

Clockwork Ruse can't be the SK because militant blocked him night 2 and there was a kill. Militant can't be the SK because a kill occurred night two and he used his jailkeeper role (despite the absurdity of a jailkeeper SK anyway). I don't think EA could possibly be the SK based on his tracker claim on me (doesn't make sense for a SK to throw himself away like that).

I agree with this, there would be too much collusion required, unless the cult had managed to recruit the SK, if that's even possible.

If Springlullaby is telling the truth about her role, then I doubt she is SK (keeping players alive is anti-SK).

If Springlullaby is telling the truth then she obviously isn't the SK but what is making you think she's not lying?

Crywolf I'm leaning town by nature of her vanilla counterclaim nonsense on Gremwell.

I want to hear a lot more from Crywolf. It's odd that we have three vanilla sailors but just one powder monkey.


I'm reasonably confident Goat isn't mafia/cult - or if he is then he's doing a very good job of it - but I see a strong possibility of him being the SK.

[Huntress]

Huntress, what do you think about my points against EA? You've avoided really taking a stance here.

As I said in post 416 I want to do a partial re-read in which I will include that so I haven't looked too closely at it yet, apart from checking to see if there was anything I had to respond to immediately. My RL routine gets back to normal tomorrow so I'll be able to do it then, if not later today(RL), together with a summary of my current suspicions.

WOW. I can't believe I didn't even consider this. I used this information to clear Xtoxm, but I didn't even think about doing it for myself. I almost feel bad for metagaming like this, but I'm not going to pass up an opportunity to clear myself.

Potates last post on mafia scum was his random vote at the very beginning of the game. He hasn't posted on the site since then. It's fairly safe to assume he didn't come back. I didn't replace in until midway through day 2. How could I have made the kill night 1 if I was the serial killer? Do you think Potates makes a random vote, disappears from Mafia Scum, then out of the blue reappears to make a night kill, then again disappears, never to be seen again? There's basically no chance of this happening.

Looking at Potates posting history, he actually does seem to have a habit of disappearing and reappearing. Taken with the fact that night fell less than four days after his last post he could well have been around to send in a night kill if he had one. So we certainly can't rule you out on that basis.

Unvote

I can see Huntress being scum.

I guess it looks like EA is scum too...

Well, yes, we know the same person made the 2 kills.

Hmm. Vote EA

Reasons? What changed your mind about EA? And when you said "the same person", did you actually mean the same person or did you mean the same role?

[Huntress]

That's odd. If Crywolf wasn't a townie then why did she react to Gremwell's claim the way she did? It doesn't seem to make sense.

I'm just looking back to see who was suggesting that the cult/mafia didn't have a kill, and to re-read posts by, and about, EA and Crywolf.

My top suspects are still Clockwork and Springlullaby, who

still

hasn't answered my questions.

[Huntress]

Huntress, I repeated 2 times that I would answer your questions if you agreed on presenting a case on me properly. If you were town and really convinced I'm scum, surely you would do everything possible to convict me. But you see, you can't because if you were to sum up your question they would amount to nothing.

The only reason I haven't made a clear case against you yet is because I was waiting for your answers to my questions before doing so. Those answers would have helped me get a clearer read on you and could even have lead to me dropping the case.

You say, "If you were town and really convinced I'm scum, surely you would do everything possible to convict me." But that's the whole point! I'm not convinced you're scum, which is why I want your answers to help me decide! Your refusal to give those answers is just pushing you higher up my scum-o-meter.

Here I'll be fair, you asked a question in your last post accusing me of rolefishing.
I'll point point out here that I'm pretty sure I already answered to it the first time round saying that I was not. People can judge.

What do you mean by "last post"? The last time I mentioned role-fishing was many posts ago in day three. It is now day five! And what about the questions I asked you in day four? In particular, this one:

I can prevent one mislynch in twilight by giving rum to everyone on board, basically I'm a governor.

A quick question: Would you have used this power on a previous day if you thought it necessary?

Can I have an answer to this please?

Huntress cult because she is just scum and I just don't see how it could be otherwise. Namely, what was that thing again for arguing against deadline yesterday? It is a moot point now, but arguing against deadline extension is just totally wtf.

I wasn't arguing against the extension; I was asking you why you needed one when we still had six days to spare. Another question you haven't answered.

Huntress, if you are SK, please claim.

No, I am not the SK.

A powder monkey (crywolf20084) has been slain. She was indifferent to ship politics.

When I read this, I jumped to the conclusion that Crywolf had been the SK as she wasn't described as either loyal or mutinous. Goat and Springlullaby: You both seem to be assuming that she wasn't the SK. Have I missed something here?

[Huntress]

I read it the same way as the other 2. Although it is possible.

But I think "indifferent to the ships poloitics" sounds like a survivor who can win with both to me.

Ah, yes. Thanks, I didn't think of a survivor. It would certainly fit with Crywolf's play.

[Huntress]

I've been reviewing my case on Clockwork, and ended up doing a full re-read. Looking at his play I'm thinking that he may have been mafia from the beginning and the whole cult business could be fake.

Day one and two distancing and defending:
Post 9: Clockwork puts FoS on Jebus and EA for bandwagoning in the RVS.
Post 77: Clockwork says to EA: "I'm actually starting to lean away from my suspicion and believe you. Meta-wise, you were a lot more quiet as scum during the first day and you really wouldn't have done something like that. I'm still going to keep my eye on you though."
Post 115: He is still non-committal about EA.
Post 125: Jebus votes Clockwork saying, "Time for a pressure wagon, I'll go with springlullaby on this one."
Post 138: Clockwork defends EA citing meta reasons.
Post 144: Jebus switches his vote to EA.
Post 158: Jebus votes Clockwork again. "A bit on the opportunistic side, but I think we can get something nice from a pressure wagon on Clockwork."

The day two lynch: Could the mafia have tried and failed to kill Gremwell N1?
Post 228: EA votes for Gremwell purely to get a lynch before the deadline.
Post 233: Goat says, "I'm going to look through Erratus then decide where to stick my vote." (It was on Gremwell at the time)
Post 236: EA wants to rush the lynch despite, or because of, the fact that Goat is reconsidering.
Post 237: Gremwell claims.
Post 243: Clockwork hammers Gremwell saying, "As EA has pointed out, there is no lynch at deadline. ... This speed lynch stupidity is going to hurt us." If he thought a speed lynch was stupid, why hammer so soon after the claim?

Role claim:
Post 322: Clockwork claims. The only thing in it that has been confirmed is the fact he was blocked N2.
Post 372: Clockwork claims he was blocked N3. Could he have been trying to kill Goat and thought he was role-blocked?
Post 373: Militant confirms he blocked Clockwork N2, but not N3.
Post 383: Clockwork confirms EA's role name.


Clockwork is my top suspect for mafia/cult with Springlullaby coming second.
Springlullaby is my top suspect for SK with Goat coming second.
I'm reasonably confident that Goat is not mafia/cult and I'm almost as sure that Xtoxm is town.

I had already investigated EA, his role name and rank were accurate. Considering the fact that the note I received says that anyone who is culted keeps their powers, I wanted to double check.

I read 455, but as it is it's much better to be safer than sorry. I feel much more at ease about you not being the SK.This is better than a pseudo-meta clear.

What exactly did you want to double check? And what makes you feel much more at ease about Goat now?

[Huntress]

Do you mean post 505?

I think I covered it in post 378; including the fact that I carried a marline spike.

[Huntress]

And you see, I'm not getting into an endless quote wall contest with you.

Good. I thought you were trying to. That's why I have been resisting your attempts to make me repeat what I've already said.

One of your last post addressing me was this one:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 03#1425603

In which you reference this post as example of 'questions' I haven't answered to, the gist of which is 'why rolefishing':
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 03#1404603

My answer is the same as the first time you directed that accusation at me, I was not, people can judge.

Role fishing was only a small part of the points I raised. Let's recap:

In post 259 you made some accusations to which I replied/asked for clarification in post 261. You expanded on this in post 277 to which I replied in post 280, refuting your points and raising questions on some of your answers. You replied in post 303 saying you thought my defense was okay. Does this mean you accept that your accusations were wrong? But you then went on to say that you still thought I was scummy for those reasons! In post 307 I said that I'd still like to see your responses to the points I made and the questions I asked (in post 280), and I also made other points about 303. These you never responded to at all. Am I to assume this was because you knew your points in that post were baseless?

And the answer to your 'would you have used your power' is probably, I dunno. Now please demonstrate how does your question amount to scumhunting of any sort.

So you would "probably" have used your power, thereby causing a no-lynch? I asked this question in direct response to the following:

1) You see, Huntress unwillingness to lynch Goat at deadline make absolutly zero sense from a town standpoint:
- and lynch is always better than nolynch, especially in the situation yesterday when faced with a cult: nolynch is like giving scum a free cult and a free kill
- she claimed vanilla, hence she could not have been sure Goat was not scum

This makes me think that the most probable mafia/cult counts Goat and Huntress in its members. That or she is moronically obtuse town which is always a chance. If Huntress is town I would like to see her giving a solid explanation on why she thought it was better to let nolynch happen.

I wanted to see how genuine your comments about no-lynch really were. You correctly say that as a vanilla I could not have been sure about Goat, but shouldn't that also apply to you? Apparently you think it's acceptable if you're causing it but not acceptable if you can blame it on me.
And incidently, how was I alone to blame for no-lynch at deadline when Goat had only three of the five votes required? In fact, five hours earlier he only had two. What about the other four who didn't vote for him?

I wasn't arguing against the extension; I was asking you why you needed one when we still had six days to spare. Another question you haven't answered.

Because six days is nothing at this game's going rate. Why are you even arguing this point is what I'm getting at. The short deadline has led to a crappy nolynch, yes or no?

Because it looked like you you were trying to protect EA by turning the voting to me or Goat.

At Huntress; I can see where you are coming from but are you comfortable saying that there isn't a cult?

I didn't say there wasn't, just that there was no evidence for one apart from your claim.

However, I think we've just found some!

CW was Marlin Spiked. Huntress, do you have anyhting to say about that?

So when were you recruited? Because I doubt very much your role was mafia from the start, and unless someone has got a marline spike that they haven't declared, which is unlikely, your information is false.

[Huntress]

Down what route? Everyone but you, I think, has declared their weapons so unless someone is lying about their weapon, or was able to pick up a marline spike from one of the dead sailors, and use that instead of their own weapon, your information must be false.

[Huntress]

And you're wrong, Gremwell, confirmed town, claimed a Marlin Spike. I actually wasn't seeing as a point against you, but I don't like this reaction at all.

What am I wrong about? I can't see what you're getting at here.

As far as I know, I'm the only one alive with a marline spike so how did you expect me to react when you claimed that was how CW was killed?

[Huntress]

It would explain why Huntress could make the claim that she couldn't possibly see me as cult but yet she could see me as SK.

That was because I didn't think EA's attack on you looked like bussing.

Oh, and with CR I used a One-Shot Protection I didn't tell you guys I had on him that night, and I highly suspect I prevented a kill from someone...

What makes you think a kill, if there was an attempt, was aimed at Clockwork rather than Goat?

And can I have a response to post 539 please?

[Huntress]

I'm reasonably confident Goat isn't mafia/cult - or if he is then he's doing a very good job of it - but I see a strong possibility of him being the SK.

Found it. This is from yesterday. I want to know why you were convinced I wasn't cult, but thought I could be the SK. This was before EA's alignment was known...or did you already know? Hmmm?

I wasn't convinced, just "reasonably confident", because I was seeing links between EA and Clockwork, both of whom I thought were scum, and I couldn't see you being linked with them, especially after EA's claim.

That bit I quoted implicates Huntress as scum, not the other way around. The argument against Huntress as scum is that she wouldn't have claimed the Marlin Spike if she knew it would cause her to get caught. What I just showed with that quote is that she was completely unaware of this happening because she thought the Marlin Spike was just flavor, and not actually meaningful to the game.

I assumed it was just flavour because I don't have any ability so I couldn't see a use for it.

Huntress killed Crywolf because she thought Crywolf was the serial killer. <snip> She kills Crywolf, convinced the Crywolf is the SK, and then when Crywolf comes up indifferent, she makes the assumption that Crywolf actually was the SK.

Huh? Where did you get this idea? I thought

you

were the SK although with Xtoxm's evidence it now looks more likely that Springlullaby is. So why are you claiming that I was "convinced" CW was the SK? Yes, I did make the assumption that Crywolf was the SK after she turned up as neutral, but that was because it didn't occur to me that she could have been a survivor.

[Huntress]

@ Xtoxm: In post 336, you said, "Both night kills were by the SK". Were you actually told this as well as being told they used poison?

[Huntress]

If you thought EA was scum, why did you hesitate to vote him yesterday? I mean, you spent the entire day completely avoiding the discussion between EA and myself, instead opting to keep your vote on Springlullaby (completely irrelevant when the lynch needed to be between EA and myself). Now you say you thought EA was scum? Your actions don't see to make sense here. Clearly, if you thought EA was scum as you claim, you would have been voting for him, which you did not. I think it's more like you knew EA was scum but wanted to sit things out and see how everything went down before making a move. I don't really see how a townie could act like this: "Well, yeah, I thought EA was scum, so I decided to avoid commenting on him at all, even though his claim was the focal point of the day. Instead I kept a useless vote on springlullaby!"

As I stated at the beginning of that day, I was very short of time to post during the holidays and I also wanted to hear from Springlullaby before deciding on my vote for that day. My vote for her was partly a pressure vote and partly because she and EA were my top suspects. I explained in post 460 why I hadn't commented on the EA/Goat cases but that I was expecting to do so within 24 hours as my routine would be getting back to normal. At that point the voting was at 2/1/1 with four days to go to the deadline. Is it scummy that I didn't know the day would be over within six and a half hours? Or that I wanted to study the discussion before deciding who to vote for?

I'm talking about today. You questioned why SL and I didn't come to the conclusion that CW was SK. That's a fairly clear statement that you DID come to that conclusion.

Yes, I said that myself in post 489. That's why I asked the question about it. However, you claimed that I killed CW

last night already convinced

that she was the SK. This is a completely baseless claim.


Xtoxm's statement that CW was killed with a marline spike means that someone, as well as the poisoner, is lying about their weapon or Xtoxm has received and/or is giving false info. As I don't think Goat is mafia and SL, as cook, is more likely to be the poisoner, that just leaves Clockwork. If CW is telling the truth about the cult and his weapon then it looks like Xtoxm may have been recruited. At the moment it could go either way between CR and Xtomx for mafia so I'd be reluctant to vote for either of them just yet. There's also a chance that they may both be town, leaving SL as mafia and Goat as the SK. Whichever way it goes, SL has a higher chance of being scum, either as mafia or SK, than anyone else.

Vote: Springlullaby

@ Xtoxm: Why have you ignored my questions?

[Huntress]

Just been doing a review of Xtoxm's posts and I found this interesting; (all except the last are from the last 12 hours of day three).

I'll now happily hammer anyone. Except myself. Not when i'm a PR

I think Spring is a good prospect, that has the best chance of getting lynched.

Unvote Vote Spring

Post 349: He expresses dislike of a no lynch. (At least I think that's what he meant.)
Then SL votes Goat (post 350).

Unvote Vote Goat

That's L-1?

Goat would be my lynch of preference today, I think. Hunt/Wolf, hammer?

(In fact, it was only L-2.)

Unvote Vote Huntress

There is no advantage to NL. Just lets the SK kill and Cult recruit. Only scum wants NL.

That's three vote switches in a few hours, ending up on someone who had no other votes against them.
In post 358, he wrote, "... but gotta make sure we get a lynch in today."

The Final Tally
3 ~ Goatrevolt (Erratus Apathos, springlullaby, ClockworkRuse)
3 ~ Erratus Apathos (Goatrevolt, Huntress, crywolf20084)
1 ~ Huntress (Xtoxm)

In post 369, Xtoxm wrote, "NL yesterday was horrible..."

To sum it up; his words were against a no-lynch but his actions helped to cause one.

@ Springlullaby: You accused me in connection with the no-lynch but I don't see a single word from you about Xtoxm's failure to help toward a lynch by voting for one of the leading contenders, despite the fact one of them was his "lynch of preference". Why?

[Huntress]

Huntress had a chance to hammer Goat over EA and didn't, do you think this is significant?

Since Goat was never higher than L-2, when did I have the chance to hammer?

[Huntress]

Congrats Springlullaby! And thanks, Ythill, for a really enjoyable game.

I liked the pace and having to adjust to a change of alignment was an interesting challenge, a new one for me, and my first time playing as scum, too. Although I was a little disappointed that EA got himself lynched before I had a chance to chat with him. I'd really like to know why he made that tracker claim.

Huntress, why did you shoot Crywolf?

I decided on her because she was least likely to be protected, or to be the SK's target, and she was my third suspect for SK. She was also not going to be easy to get lynched. I guessed that either Goat or SL would be protected by Militant to prevent them killing and that Militant would be the SK's target. My mistake was overlooking the danger of Xtoxm's role. I was fooled into thinking he was only told the alignment of the killer although, given the flavour or his role, that didn't make sense.

One of my reasons for suspecting SL was that after I was recruited I found that EA had attempted, and failed, to recruit her earlier and her claim to be a cook did not appear to fit in with her being an officer.