Mini 2287: AB:LoAF (Postgame)

[Kokichi Oma]

UNVOTE:

This game is annoying me ngl. Maybe cause we have less than a day left and we have no plan.

[Kokichi Oma]

you and KT are hiding behind a fakepeek by a guy that trolls every single game. if you're town, that's cowardice. if you're scum it's smart but I can see what's going on.

I've been saying all day Drew has had bad posts, so it's not the only reason why I think he could be scum.

not to kill drew, but to then go ahead and blame and kill NM for being NM.

if we're killing drew cause he is scummy, then it's on us and we use KT's ability to shred the POE, not to kill a pirate. never killing a pirate on a townflip! we lose the game with bullshit like this man.

Okay, fair. I get your argument now.

[Enchant]

pure setup spec here and I have no idea what I'm talking about cause I don't get how roles were distributed at all

btw if roles arent random like alignments, then KT's version of vig could be the way how scum could continue killing during hails as a utility intended by mod

so guess @enchant, did we get utilities randomly or does role part of stuff had a design?

Every player received two roles to pick which determined purely randomly, unless other pick intervened.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

You again lied. That's not third party.

Its a third party based on that win condition

Am I the only one seeing it that pirates are doomed to town side?

I think in the setup you’re defined as groupscum which is Kokichi’s point but you’re more of a third party, akin to Mimes (faction that wins if all members get voted out). Mastermind would be a third party that functions more like a groupscum, as a complement to the discussion.
As for being doomed to townside, depending the circumstances of the game I’d call scumsiding more probable simply by there being less scum than town and thus if the scum gets obliterated early the pirates have to impede the town in order to win. I’ll get into this more when discussing my practical plan for this game.

If pirates don't leave game earlier and end up in an end game situation, that means they haven't pirated one of living factions already. which means they logistically cant side with scum, cause a scum win means they loose. you know? cause scum wins the game with equal numbers and stuff while town has to get rid of all other factions.

There is no scenario in which pirates are keen to scum side in an elo if they are still in game. Only way we can help scum is if we manage to pirate all factions and leave game, and if town is slow enough with killing main scum and ends up in a pickle with us leaving the game.

so clock is ticking and town must find actual scum.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Then why in the world would you not be okay with voting Drew?

I'll ask the most asked question of this game: have you played with not_mafia before?

Yes, but Kirigiri confirmed them as other Pirate which at least gives some credit to the claim

Do not give credit to stuff on my behalf when I explicitly said I won't be involved in it. I confirmed him as a pirate. I wont be talking about his role.

Okay, so N_M guilty is probably a lie then

You had reached this conclusion earlier, why did being a pirate change anything?

[Enchant]

Um. If Pirate trying to force mislims then they are enemies? So why don't blast them.

[Kokichi Oma]

I took that as not wanting to vote Drew at all but you just don't want it because of N_M.

I would be down for a Drew/Herta elim/shot. In either order. Anyone else?

[Kokichi Oma]

Then why in the world would you not be okay with voting Drew?

I'll ask the most asked question of this game: have you played with not_mafia before?

Yes, but Kirigiri confirmed them as other Pirate which at least gives some credit to the claim

Do not give credit to stuff on my behalf when I explicitly said I won't be involved in it. I confirmed him as a pirate. I wont be talking about his role.

Okay, so N_M guilty is probably a lie then

You had reached this conclusion earlier, why did being a pirate change anything?

I thought Kirigiri was confirming them as cop pirate, but it seems she's confirming them as ONLY pirate. meaning that she's basically saying he's not cop but is a pirate.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You again lied. That's not third party.

Its a third party based on that win condition

Am I the only one seeing it that pirates are doomed to town side?

I think in the setup you’re defined as groupscum which is Kokichi’s point but you’re more of a third party, akin to Mimes (faction that wins if all members get voted out). Mastermind would be a third party that functions more like a groupscum, as a complement to the discussion.
As for being doomed to townside, depending the circumstances of the game I’d call scumsiding more probable simply by there being less scum than town and thus if the scum gets obliterated early the pirates have to impede the town in order to win. I’ll get into this more when discussing my practical plan for this game.

If pirates don't leave game earlier and end up in an end game situation, that means they haven't pirated one of living factions already. which means they logistically cant side with scum, cause a scum win means they loose. you know? cause scum wins the game with equal numbers and stuff while town has to get rid of all other factions.

There is no scenario in which pirates are keen to scum side in an elo if they are still in game. Only way we can help scum is if we manage to pirate all factions and leave game, and if town is slow enough with killing main scum and ends up in a pickle with us leaving the game.

so clock is ticking and town must find actual scum.

You are right that that scenario is bad for town but from an objective point of view not being able to kill scum in order to accommodate another faction can be detrimental to town. I guess the main remedy is being ultra-clear who your targets are. The core issue I see is if town sinks into apathy as a result of waiting for you to get your win, but by disclosing targets there is limited suspects which turns the game into a mechanical simplicity, reducing the negative impact of apathy.

[Gimli]

Um. If Pirate trying to force mislims then they are enemies? So why don't blast them.

11 players left

3 scum
2 pirate
6 town

miselim + BLAST PIRATEZ AT NIGHT =

5 town
1 pirate
3 scum

and that's an ELO for all intents and purposes

we must scumhunt inside the true groupscum. 100% at elimination and with the night shot. we don't have room to be flipping pirates rn.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Then why in the world would you not be okay with voting Drew?

I'll ask the most asked question of this game: have you played with not_mafia before?

Yes, but Kirigiri confirmed them as other Pirate which at least gives some credit to the claim

Do not give credit to stuff on my behalf when I explicitly said I won't be involved in it. I confirmed him as a pirate. I wont be talking about his role.

Okay, so N_M guilty is probably a lie then

You had reached this conclusion earlier, why did being a pirate change anything?

I thought Kirigiri was confirming them as cop pirate, but it seems she's confirming them as ONLY pirate. meaning that she's basically saying he's not cop but is a pirate.

Even if that was the case, cop pirate would still need a way to subvert hail.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

You again lied. That's not third party.

Its a third party based on that win condition

Am I the only one seeing it that pirates are doomed to town side?

I think in the setup you’re defined as groupscum which is Kokichi’s point but you’re more of a third party, akin to Mimes (faction that wins if all members get voted out). Mastermind would be a third party that functions more like a groupscum, as a complement to the discussion.
As for being doomed to townside, depending the circumstances of the game I’d call scumsiding more probable simply by there being less scum than town and thus if the scum gets obliterated early the pirates have to impede the town in order to win. I’ll get into this more when discussing my practical plan for this game.

If pirates don't leave game earlier and end up in an end game situation, that means they haven't pirated one of living factions already. which means they logistically cant side with scum, cause a scum win means they loose. you know? cause scum wins the game with equal numbers and stuff while town has to get rid of all other factions.

There is no scenario in which pirates are keen to scum side in an elo if they are still in game. Only way we can help scum is if we manage to pirate all factions and leave game, and if town is slow enough with killing main scum and ends up in a pickle with us leaving the game.

so clock is ticking and town must find actual scum.

You are right that that scenario is bad for town but from an objective point of view not being able to kill scum in order to accommodate another faction can be detrimental to town. I guess the main remedy is being ultra-clear who your targets are. The core issue I see is if town sinks into apathy as a result of waiting for you to get your win, but by disclosing targets there is limited suspects which turns the game into a mechanical simplicity, reducing the negative impact of apathy.

Ofcourse

will share my targets all the time. Since this is my first time pirating, I'll claim this after next day starts and will decide and announce future targets before night begins

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I took that as not wanting to vote Drew at all but you just don't want it because of N_M.

I would be down for a Drew/Herta elim/shot. In either order. Anyone else?

You almost landed on what my practical plan is.

[Gimli]

I took that as not wanting to vote Drew at all but you just don't want it because of N_M.

I would be down for a Drew/Herta elim/shot. In either order. Anyone else?

that's what I'm thinking of. the order doesn't matter.

[Gimli]

oh that's great, we're all coming to the same conclusions

[Kokichi Oma]

Okay, everyone since people do not seem to understand why shooting Pirate if we vote out town is not a bad thing.

We are at likely: (Unlikely) 5 v 3 v 3 or 6 v 3 v 2 or (unlikely) 7 v 2 v 2

If we shoot and elim town we are either: (Unlikley 3 v 3 v 3) or 4 v 3 v 2 or (unlikely 5 v 2 v 2) which means we basically lose right?

If we shoot and elim town and pirate we are (Unlikely 4 v 3 v 2) or 5 v 3 v 1 or (unlikely 6 v 2 v 1) Which is a better standing and we don't auto lose.

(Tell me if my math is wrong here cause I'm assuming that if we are below the amount of total scum we lose no?)

[Enchant]

Um. If Pirate trying to force mislims then they are enemies? So why don't blast them.

11 players left

3 scum
2 pirate
6 town

miselim + BLAST PIRATEZ AT NIGHT =

5 town
1 pirate
3 scum

and that's an ELO for all intents and purposes

we must scumhunt inside the true groupscum. 100% at elimination and with the night shot. we don't have room to be flipping pirates rn.

Okay.

11 players left.

3 scum
2 pirate
6 town

mislim+BLAST GROUPSCUM OH SORRY WE SHOT TOWN INSTEAD

4 town, 2 pirate, 3 scum.


At this point we have no say at what will happen: Scum are majority.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

UNVOTE:

This game is annoying me ngl. Maybe cause we have less than a day left and we have no plan.

Yeah these day phases are dreadfully short. It’s about as long as a day phase on my homesite, which is plagued with issues mobilizing elimination votes. “Thou Shalt Not Abstain” has become a rallying cry of certain players.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

You guys really think there are 3 people in group scum?

I was thinking its 2 2 7 rn

[Kokichi Oma]

I took that as not wanting to vote Drew at all but you just don't want it because of N_M.

I would be down for a Drew/Herta elim/shot. In either order. Anyone else?

You almost landed on what my practical plan is.

I took that as not wanting to vote Drew at all but you just don't want it because of N_M.

I would be down for a Drew/Herta elim/shot. In either order. Anyone else?

that's what I'm thinking of. the order doesn't matter.

oh that's great, we're all coming to the same conclusions

Okay FINALLY we getting somewhere.

[Enchant]

Anyway if NM fakeclaimed guilty, then he is HOSTILE against Town.

It means Pirates HOSTILE to town. Therefore they WILL side against us.

[Kokichi Oma]

Um. If Pirate trying to force mislims then they are enemies? So why don't blast them.

11 players left

3 scum
2 pirate
6 town

miselim + BLAST PIRATEZ AT NIGHT =

5 town
1 pirate
3 scum

and that's an ELO for all intents and purposes

we must scumhunt inside the true groupscum. 100% at elimination and with the night shot. we don't have room to be flipping pirates rn.

Okay.

11 players left.

3 scum
2 pirate
6 town

mislim+BLAST GROUPSCUM OH SORRY WE SHOT TOWN INSTEAD

4 town, 2 pirate, 3 scum.


At this point we have no say at what will happen: Scum are majority.

Okay yes this is what I was thinking

[Gimli]

if everyone's both bottom reads are both town then we are in a pickle yes enchant. but doing this vendetta thing against NM is awful regardless.

[Enchant]

No i mean.

Do you think NM will side with town?

No way.

[Enchant]

if everyone's both bottom reads are both town then we are in a pickle yes enchant. but doing this vendetta thing against NM is awful regardless.

Still better than instalose.