Mini 708 - Cheat Mafia (GAME OVER)

[iLord]

Fly on the Nose (Day 1)

A fly buzzes through the window and lands on Mr. Shoal's nose. From that vantage point, the insect observes the classroom. Discussion has begun to heat up, and the class is accusing each other of having malicious intentions! How exciting!

The fly flies off of Mr. Shoal's nose, and glided zipped around underneath the desks. Soon, he sees his target - an open lunchbox! The fly goes in.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Vote Count the Fourth:

Natirasha (1): Der Hammer
Electra (0):
GhostWriter (1): malthusis
Animorpherv1 (2): Electra, sirdanilot
Malthusis (1): Mana_Ku
Sirdanilot (1): animorpherv1

I will be in V/LA from the 21st - 22nd.

[Xtoxm]

Vote GW

[Xtoxm]

Vote GW

[Der Hammer]

Yeah, in response to the ask for clarification, yes i was claiming miller

[malthusis]

Vote GW

[malthusis]

Vote GW

[GhostWriter]

Vote GW

It was probably out of love.

[animorpherv1]

I didn't claim miller, so why are you people thinking I did?

[GhostWriter]

They're making the association, most likely, due to the time of the claim: right after a miller claim from another player.

[sirdanilot]

How, exactly, is claiming scummy?

Why would a towny give out information like that if there is no reason to? It doesn't fit with animorpherv1-town. It does fit ani-scum, though. He wants to abuse his 'newbie' imago and claims, then says that he just followed the rest and that we should get over his mistake. A very smart scum gambit. I am not buying it at all.

Also, please explain your vote.

Actually, you could call me new to MS Mafia. I'm just getting used to the pace of certain games.

I don't care. I do not treat newbies differently than experienced players. You are expected not to be a newbie outside of newbie games. Since you are continuing trying to use the newbie card, I think I am going to keep my vote on you for now, since I think we're onto something here.

I'm also going to say this to you as a kind of IC: If you are not used to certain games yet after your first newbie game, the best (and only) way to learn is to play in real games. However, you should try to make them forget that you are a newbie. The best way to learn is not to get treated differently for being a newbie, but to get treated the same as the more experienced players. And that is what I do. I never ever buy the newbie card. I will treat you exactly the same as anyone else.

#2 was correct. It

was

a plain mistake and you

should

get over it

You say that it was a plain mistake. I do not believe you, because your play is scummy. That is why I am not getting over it. Also, could you defend yourself against my summarized case on you?

1. Claiming without reasoning.
2. Saying that the claim was a plain mistake, implying we should get over it.
3. "It looks to me as if your trying to get me lynched.", while I wasn't voting for him at the time. In fact, that statement in itself is scummy enough, anyone is able to see that.
4. Playing the newbie card.

Oh, I thought ani was the other miller. Well, then. Yeah, I think his claim is true, if not enitirely town. It sounds like a scum gambit I employ.

First you say it's towny, then you say it's a scum gambit you'd employ? Also, please elaborate on why you think that a claim, right after two people claiming miller, is a pro-town tell. How does it help the town. Also reply to the image of a hypothetical ani-scum claiming, compare it with the hypothetical ani-town. Which do you find more likely?

[animorpherv1]

1. Claiming without reasoning.

My mistake

2. Saying that the claim was a plain mistake, implying we should get over it.

once again, my mistake. This is why I think your scum. Your saying only one thing, and that I'm automatically scum because I claimed.

3. "It looks to me as if your trying to get me lynched.", while I wasn't voting for him at the time. In fact, that statement in itself is scummy enough, anyone is able to see that.

Does that change the fact that you look even scummier to me because you can't find anything decent?

4. Playing the newbie card.

I've never played R Mafia, and that may be my downfall. I'm doing what I think I need to do, I'm checking on all my games, and when I feel like someone is scummy, I vote for them, and explain why.

[Natirasha]

Oh, I thought ani was the other miller. Well, then. Yeah, I think his claim is true, if not enitirely town. It sounds like a scum gambit I employ.

First you say it's towny, then you say it's a scum gambit you'd employ? Also, please elaborate on why you think that a claim, right after two people claiming miller, is a pro-town tell. How does it help the town. Also reply to the image of a hypothetical ani-scum claiming, compare it with the hypothetical ani-town. Which do you find more likely?

I never said that his claiming was a pro-town tell. Where did I ever say that?

[Xtoxm]

Why would a towny give out information like that if there is no reason to? It doesn't fit with animorpherv1-town. It does fit ani-scum, though. He wants to abuse his 'newbie' imago and claims, then says that he just followed the rest and that we should get over his mistake. A very smart scum gambit. I am not buying it at all.

I can see it fitting.

My vote, at the start of the game, I PMed GW asking about the quiz. He read my PM, and completely ignored it.

I'd expect a townie to atleast give some kind of a response - Not necessarily give me his answer, but definatley give some kind of a response. This makes me very suspicious of him, hence the vote. Ignoring the PM is something i'd expect from scum.

[sirdanilot]

Oh, I thought ani was the other miller. Well, then. Yeah, I think his claim is true, if not enitirely town. It sounds like a scum gambit I employ.

First you say it's towny, then you say it's a scum gambit you'd employ? Also, please elaborate on why you think that a claim, right after two people claiming miller, is a pro-town tell. How does it help the town. Also reply to the image of a hypothetical ani-scum claiming, compare it with the hypothetical ani-town. Which do you find more likely?

I never said that his claiming was a pro-town tell. Where did I ever say that?

"Yeah, I think his claim is true, if not enitirely town." -natirasha

Or did I misread that?

1. Claiming without reasoning.

My mistake

Well, you don't really have any other choice than to say that, since it happened, so we don't really need to discuss this anymore, since this is a fact. It happened and I find it a scum tell, and that's all there is to it realy.

2. Saying that the claim was a plain mistake, implying we should get over it.

once again, my mistake. This is why I think your scum. Your saying only one thing, and that I'm automatically scum because I claimed.

Hold on. I find you scummy, not only because you claimed (otherwise I would have voted you immediately after your claim) but the way you reacted to me FoSing you over it. Point 2 and mainly 3, the way you dealt with the FoS, is my main case on you. With that comes the claim in itself and also point 4.

3. "It looks to me as if your trying to get me lynched.", while I wasn't voting for him at the time. In fact, that statement in itself is scummy enough, anyone is able to see that.

Does that change the fact that you look even scummier to me because you can't find anything decent?

Could you elaborate? What do you mean with 'decent'?

4. Playing the newbie card.

I've never played R Mafia, and that may be my downfall. I'm doing what I think I need to do, I'm checking on all my games, and when I feel like someone is scummy, I vote for them, and explain why.

Sure, that is the way you are supposed to be playing. All I am saying is that you should never ever say 'hey, I'm just a newbie, take it easy!'. The best way to learn is by dealing with these accusations, just like you're doing now. I never go easier (or tougher for that matter) on newbies.

That said, I haven't heard a truly compelling defense against my case on you yet, meaning that I am going to keep my vote on you for a while.

I would appreciate if the other players would reply to my summarized case against animorpher, what does everyone think about it?

[iLord]

A Dangerous Journey (Day 1)

After that fly had finished his meal, he attempted to exit the classroom. But the students had stood up and were jumping up and down in their accusations. The fly weaved and ducked in the air, and managed to avoid the giant bodies and swinging limbs of the students.

The fly gave a quick burst of speed, exiting the room, and leaving the students to argue in silence.

Vote Count the Fifth:

Natirasha (1): Der Hammer
Electra (0):
GhostWriter (2): malthusis, xtoxm
Animorpherv1 (2): Electra, sirdanilot
Malthusis (1): Mana_Ku
Sirdanilot (1): animorpherv1

Dattebayo, pacman281292, Electra, and Mana_Ku have been prodded.

[Natirasha]

"Yeah, I think it's true" Meant I thought he was the class clown, but that doesn't tell us anything about his alignment. In regards to claiming, I think he's scum.

[Electra]

If you think he's scum, Natirasha, then why are you not voting him?

Also, sird, your case boils down to him playing the newbie card and trying to get away with it as scum. I feel like if he is a newbie and did make a mistake, he would have the same actions. I don't see any difference, so I don't view it as a scum tell.

[Dattebayo]

I'm not reading Animorph as scum but I am reading SirD as scum.
My read on Ani:
First of all, I almost made the same mistake as ani when I saw that there were multiple claims. This makes me believe this was an honest mistake. Also, if were newb-scum I would expect him to make up some bull shit response. Instead he kept a pretty straight story.

My read on Sir D:

1. Claiming without reasoning.

Actually there was reasoning:

So...
We have two claimed millers.

Also, animorph, why did you claim?

Becuase they did, actually, I thought we would be starting a mass claim thing. oops.

This accusation is just wrong.

2. Saying that the claim was a plain mistake, implying we should get over it.

This is a null tell; scum or town could say it was a mistake. We should be focusing on whether it was a calculative answer or a genuine mistake and I'm thinking the latter.

3. "It looks to me as if your trying to get me lynched.", while I wasn't voting for him at the time. In fact, that statement in itself is scummy enough, anyone is able to see that.

This statement is taken out of context. While he said little to accompany this statement; the material implied he thought you were trying to lynch him on little basis; not simply lynch him. Pulling quotes out of context is a scum tactic.

It seems that SirD is trying to take advantage of a vulnerable target but the biggest problem I have with him is the following statement:

Oh, I thought ani was the other miller. Well, then. Yeah, I think his claim is true, if not enitirely town. It sounds like a scum gambit I employ.

First you say it's towny, then you say it's a scum gambit you'd employ? Also, please elaborate on why you think that a claim, right after two people claiming miller, is a pro-town tell. How does it help the town. Also reply to the image of a hypothetical ani-scum claiming, compare it with the hypothetical ani-town. Which do you find more likely?

I never said that his claiming was a pro-town tell. Where did I ever say that?

"Yeah, I think his claim is true, if not enitirely town." -natirasha

Or did I misread that?

1. Claiming without reasoning.

My mistake

Well, you don't really have any other choice than to say that, since it happened, so we don't really need to discuss this anymore, since this is a fact. It happened and I find it a scum tell, and that's all there is to it realy.

2. Saying that the claim was a plain mistake, implying we should get over it.

once again, my mistake. This is why I think your scum. Your saying only one thing, and that I'm automatically scum because I claimed.

Hold on. I find you scummy, not only because you claimed (otherwise I would have voted you immediately after your claim) but the way you reacted to me FoSing you over it. Point 2 and mainly 3, the way you dealt with the FoS, is my main case on you. With that comes the claim in itself and also point 4.

3. "It looks to me as if your trying to get me lynched.", while I wasn't voting for him at the time. In fact, that statement in itself is scummy enough, anyone is able to see that.

Does that change the fact that you look even scummier to me because you can't find anything decent?

Could you elaborate? What do you mean with 'decent'?

4. Playing the newbie card.

I've never played R Mafia, and that may be my downfall. I'm doing what I think I need to do, I'm checking on all my games, and when I feel like someone is scummy, I vote for them, and explain why.

Sure, that is the way you are supposed to be playing. All I am saying is that you should never ever say 'hey, I'm just a newbie, take it easy!'. The best way to learn is by dealing with these accusations, just like you're doing now. I never go easier (or tougher for that matter) on newbies.

That said, I haven't heard a truly compelling defense against my case on you yet, meaning that I am going to keep my vote on you for a while.

I would appreciate if the other players would reply to my summarized case against animorpher, what does everyone think about it?

That statement screams scum. Look! He attached a timeframe to his vote. No townie would ever ever do this; this shows calculative planning in favor of the scum agenda. Townies only relieve votes when scummier targets come along or the current target ceases to seem scummy. They change their suspicions when the circumstances call for it; they never have a scumhunting game plan that specific so to speak. Only the scum do. In addition, this makes SirD's vote look insincere since he's so willing to change it in a "while".

Vote SirD

[GhostWriter]

My vote, at the start of the game, I PMed GW asking about the quiz. He read my PM, and completely ignored it.

I'd expect a townie to atleast give some kind of a response - Not necessarily give me his answer, but definatley give some kind of a response. This makes me very suspicious of him, hence the vote. Ignoring the PM is something i'd expect from scum.

That, sir, is hilarious. Tell me, exactly, how this works out to be a tell worthy of suspicion? Because I did not see it fit to even answer? Oh no, maybe I have answers, as well as other things in my PM, and do not trust myself to talk of any of the PM without letting it all spill out! Oh, dear me, you've caught me, whatever shall I do?

[sirdanilot]

If you think he's scum, Natirasha, then why are you not voting him?

Also, sird, your case boils down to him playing the newbie card and trying to get away with it as scum. I feel like if he is a newbie and did make a mistake, he would have the same actions. I don't see any difference, so I don't view it as a scum tell.

I agree Natirasha should elaborate on that.

Why would a newbie be allowed to get away with the mistake. What if he wasn't a newbie? I don't let the factor of him being a newbie enter my reasoning to vote him, certainly not in the beginning of the game.

So, let me ask you a question. Would you let animorpher get away with that if he were an experienced player?

I'm not reading Animorph as scum but I am reading SirD as scum.
My read on Ani:
First of all, I almost made the same mistake as ani when I saw that there were multiple claims. This makes me believe this was an honest mistake. Also, if were newb-scum I would expect him to make up some bull shit response. Instead he kept a pretty straight story.

I completely disagree. The fact that you almost made that mistake should not enter your reasoning, since it is irrelevant. A newbie could have made that mistake, yes, and animorpher may be a newbie, but most of all, he is a player in this game. I would never ever let an experience player get away with this, so I am not letting animorpher get away with this.

My read on Sir D:

1. Claiming without reasoning.

Actually there was reasoning:

So...
We have two claimed millers.

Also, animorph, why did you claim?

Becuase they did, actually, I thought we would be starting a mass claim thing. oops.

This accusation is just wrong.

Ah yes, that's indeed a reasoning, but guess what: it's a bad one. There's no way that I am going to say: 'aww you made a mistake, okay then, I can understand that, unfos.' He's just trying to get away with it playing the newbie card.

2. Saying that the claim was a plain mistake, implying we should get over it.

This is a null tell; scum or town could say it was a mistake. We should be focusing on whether it was a calculative answer or a genuine mistake and I'm thinking the latter.

Why would town say that we should get over it. Please elaborate.

3. "It looks to me as if your trying to get me lynched.", while I wasn't voting for him at the time. In fact, that statement in itself is scummy enough, anyone is able to see that.

This statement is taken out of context. While he said little to accompany this statement; the material implied he thought you were trying to lynch him on little basis; not simply lynch him. Pulling quotes out of context is a scum tactic.

Now you are not replying to the issue at hand. Firstly, why would he be thinking that I was trying to get him lynched? It's complete nonsense! I didn't even vote for him! I didn't express severe suspicion! Why would a towny be so paranoid? Secondly, why would me be trying to get him lynched be scummy. Isn't that just pure OMGUS. As for that 'on little basis' thing you added, how can you be so sure he implied that.

It seems that SirD is trying to take advantage of a vulnerable target but the biggest problem I have with him is the following statement:

No, I am not trying to take advantage of him. I am trying to get discussion going, to get information out of him, and I think he's scummy for saying those things.

That said, I haven't heard a truly compelling defense against my case on you yet, meaning that I am going to keep my vote on you for a while.

I would appreciate if the other players would reply to my summarized case against animorpher, what does everyone think about it?

That statement screams scum. Look! (1)He attached a timeframe to his vote. No townie would ever ever do this; this shows calculative planning in favor of the scum agenda. (2)Townies only relieve votes when scummier targets come along or the current target ceases to seem scummy. (3)They change their suspicions when the circumstances call for it; they never have a scumhunting game plan that specific so to speak. Only the scum do. (4)In addition, this makes SirD's vote look insincere since he's so willing to change it in a "while".

Vote SirD

1. Huh, what 'timeframe' did I attach to my post? You mean that I said that I am going to keep my vote on him for a while? That is true. With that I mean that I see no reason to put my vote off him. See it as me confirming my vote on him.
2. Did I ever imply that I wasn't going to do that? Anyway, what I meant is that I wasn't going to unvote him because he didn't cease to be scummy to me.
3. This is based on nothing. I never said that I had a specific plan or something among those lines. You are just making things up here.
4. I never said that I was willing to change it in a while. Was I supposed to say 'I am going to keep my vote on you for EVER!!!'? Because I really know better than to say that, even though I think he is scum right now, this is the first few pages of the game.

When scumhunting, you shouldn't start assuming that your target is scum and you shouldn't start making up things that I really didn't mean with my post. Your best point is probably your reply to point 2, I am very interested in hearing another side of that story.

[Xtoxm]

My vote, at the start of the game, I PMed GW asking about the quiz. He read my PM, and completely ignored it.

I'd expect a townie to atleast give some kind of a response - Not necessarily give me his answer, but definatley give some kind of a response. This makes me very suspicious of him, hence the vote. Ignoring the PM is something i'd expect from scum.

That, sir, is hilarious. Tell me, exactly, how this works out to be a tell worthy of suspicion? Because I did not see it fit to even answer? Oh no, maybe I have answers, as well as other things in my PM, and do not trust myself to talk of any of the PM without letting it all spill out! Oh, dear me, you've caught me, whatever shall I do?

Translated into simple english:

I'm scum

Lynch please.

[animorpherv1]

3. This is based on nothing. I never said that I had a specific plan or something among those lines. You are just making things up here.

You noticed this

is

what he said? He's acusing of you of for this, and you agree to it?

I'm sold. Sird is scum.

[iLord]

Another Announcement (Day 1)

The intercom rang out once more:

"Pay attention! The following has been added to the test taking rules":

[08] After the lynch threshold has been reached, you will have an additional 24 hours to update your answer sheets before the day ends. I will confirm that the player has been lynched, but I will not reveal his alignment until after the 24 hours are up, after which your answer sheets will be immediately updated. Late answers will not be accepted, so get in your answers as soon as you can!

[09] If you are communicating out of thread, you may forward me a link or a copy of a PM sent within the missing activity period to avoid prods.

"That is all!"

Vote Count the Sixth:

Natirasha (1): Der Hammer
Electra (0):
GhostWriter (2): malthusis, xtoxm
Animorpherv1 (2): Electra, sirdanilot
Malthusis (1): Mana_Ku
Sirdanilot (2): animorpherv1, Dattebayo

[Electra]

What reason would sird have for pursuing animorph if he were scum? Someone said something about going for an easy lynch or something, but why would scum do that? If animorph flips town, he'd be in an awful position the next day. Towns are generally awful enough at lynching scum that any experienced scum should be content enough to just let the town do their own thing.

With that said, I didn't find animorph's original post to be scummy, but his reaction and his whole bit about being sold on the fact that sird is scum is very OMGUS-y and new mafia-like - he doesn't know how to defend himself, so the best conclusion to make is that his attacker is scum.

I'm already voting him, but just saying that it's no longer a random vote.

[Natirasha]

That was a poorly worded statement on my part.

I think ani's claim is scummy, but certainly not scummy enough to vote for yet. Honestly, this game hasn't piqued my interest yet at all. However, his pushing of Sird--someone I find extremely pro-town--makes me want to

vote: Animorpher