Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Game Over!

[Bell]

If nobody has anything additional to contribute I'm ready to end today.
If anybody had made any requests or suggestions, I didn't read them.

[petapan]

I'm waiting for FF.
and you guys to solve the game. FB isn't going anywhere and we know he's scum.
What does that mean for his teammates?

i've given the input i can give though i haven't reread

a big difficulty is i'm working with incomplete info when i think things will be more clear tomorrow. i think there is probably no cop in the game but i can't fully base a solve on that.

a big issue is that taly's slot was effectively nonexistent in the game for days. she was getting mostly townread after early game (partly my bad but i had already reversed that read by the time day 1 was ending). rh9 showed up and i instantly blew him up, my view is that firebringer entered the game effectively in antispew and so all his posts should be read as WIFOM.

that leaves a lot less info to work with than i'd like

[petapan]

i did a brief study of taly in open 835 to see how he talked about egix, his active partner (he threw not_mafia under the bus like anyone would be expected to do). the quick summary is he was deflective of scumreads on egix but stayed away from overt full defense for the most part, picking at reasoning rather than outright calling egix town. he did do a townread but followed it up with an asking a question thing to appear nuanced, but otherwise mostly didn't talk about egix much. this type of behavior can vary game to game but most people tend to have patterns in how they play toward partners

[fferyllt]

i did a brief study of taly in open 835 to see how he talked about egix, his active partner (he threw not_mafia under the bus like anyone would be expected to do). the quick summary is he was deflective of scumreads on egix but stayed away from overt full defense for the most part, picking at reasoning rather than outright calling egix town. he did do a townread but followed it up with an asking a question thing to appear nuanced, but otherwise mostly didn't talk about egix much. this type of behavior can vary game to game but most people tend to have patterns in how they play toward partners

Do you think any of Taly's reads followed this pattern in this game?

[petapan]

i did a brief study of taly in open 835 to see how he talked about egix, his active partner (he threw not_mafia under the bus like anyone would be expected to do). the quick summary is he was deflective of scumreads on egix but stayed away from overt full defense for the most part, picking at reasoning rather than outright calling egix town. he did do a townread but followed it up with an asking a question thing to appear nuanced, but otherwise mostly didn't talk about egix much. this type of behavior can vary game to game but most people tend to have patterns in how they play toward partners

Do you think any of Taly's reads followed this pattern in this game?

i'm doing a check on that right now, i posted that primarily to refresh my memory

[petapan]

/allow other people to dive it if they're so inclined.

[petapan]

They should just be bullshit based on your innocence right

Stake your position or something

i think you misunderstand

we're not entertaining other people's reads

because

they're true, we're discerning the motivation despite internal dissonance

interesting that the two most suspected slots were also the first slots to have semi-serious convo

vicky

uwnnd

we're dissociated and have different solving mechanisms and vibes when playing

this is as new to us as it is for everyone else in the plist

so we have different perceptions

its why taly always voteparked nowhere in retrospect in big games D1, lots of input

pedit

cephrir

talking about notty/taly, my dude

We're intending to reread

Unwnd

, given time and obligation restraints. We aren't picking up anything on them one way or the other and wonder if their few focusing points:

(Luke, Bell, Marci, Notty, Peta)

are sincere. 532 read as self-conscious on a skim, but we don't have time to analyze the context.

I'm not a disbeliever that disposition where you are in life doesn't affect your play. We try to not talk about it, but it's there. His flat tire situation brought about a string of posts that I felt were hard to fake. Had a lot of believable follow-up in thoughts before he was stranded. There was also a lot of vulnerability in it too, like him saying he thinks he sucks as scum. I also am reminded of when he was commenting about my play and how I'm not too friendly/cloistered and this was properly addressed in there too. His thoughts seem real and distinct.

does this explain your lack of interest in sorting ydrasse and the wagon

vicky

unwnd is it a bad take to think you're avoiding us

vicky

*pecks unwnd with beak*

taly

home

VOTE: unwnd

really dont vibe with the focus on luke --> PoE dunn/dragons/luke --> luke/dragons TvS pipeline

and my system mates may be be satisfied with the "i dont get you so i wont engage with you" but im not.

vicky

we have 2 concerns

1. how did you arrive to luke/dragons TvS
2. what's the hang-up with us

deadline isnt today

vicky

i know for a fact unwnd isn't above theatering with his mates, but this kind of feels like not it

it'll be easier to sort his slot when we have a claim though

[petapan]

Gaia:
You mentioned that you liked LLD's
contributions but Taly
and Yume
have dissonance with that slot.

Taly
likes that LLD's
receptive to voting and posits that being OK with a somewhat large pool (4 players) of votes is likelier town in D1, trying to scumhunt -- this is more rationalized by the assumption scum isn't willing to aggro. Furthermore, Taly's
said that the notion from LLD
helping us conceptualize playing as a plural entity for once is a town POV, because good faith and town-building. He also doubts scum would have the same energy as LLD
in posting volume, and Vicky
agrees.

Yume
is more reserved on LLD
because she questions if the change from early townping to being willing to vote Luke
is natural, partially because Unwnd
focused there and is wondering if LLD's
take on Luke
is unique.

Vicky
likes the Bell
vote, as Vicky
would've liked any vote on Bell
when she posed it.

It appears we aren't as familiar with LLD
as several in this playerlist, so I caution a solid read at this point.

Collectively, we townping LLD
, but aren't strong there.

this kinda feels like a partner read though. lld will be annoyed with me for bringing this up.

i will say that on every level of tone and in the moment play she feels town to me, not just "fine", but like really really sounds town, if it was f3 between lld and a black box i probably close my eyes and vote the other player. but i look at the nightkills and wonder if those aren't red flags


again, shrug. i think marci always needs to be flipped first for sanity purposes, if she's town it sucks but you can't leave someone playing like she is alive in ELO. from there you'll have more information, y'all are big kids you can figure it out. if we lose cuz scum played good oh well, it happens sometimes. shouldn't have turned the ball over twice in the first half.

[petapan]

lld having no read on taly in 400 posts is certainly something

i would, like, expect a player of her caliber to say

something

about a teammate cuz that is a play newbies get caught on but taly was kind of easy to ignore. it's confusing to me regardless

[fferyllt]

I did a stupidly quick scan of Taly's ISO and I can see possible deflection of scumreads on Luke, Ceph, and Marci in chronological order.

[Firebringer]

im going to make final reads list and thoughts

[petapan]

i'm spent, i can't gesture at vague hypotheticals anymore, good to move on

[Bell]

VOTE: FB

This is the part where FB votes themselves because they discover that they're mafia, technically fulfilling their solve promise.

[fferyllt]

heh.

I could ruin that.

[Firebringer]

i am going to give thoughts tomorrow. Yall going to eliminate Bell tomorrow and hopefully my other reads are right and u sheep those.

[Bell]

Please vote yourself.

[Bell]

I said please.

[fferyllt]

I wanted to give people time and opportunity to react to/interact with my catchup. dunno if anyone actually wants to do that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

vote count 3.04

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 3 ends in (expired on 2023-02-23 22:38:00).

yeet

Firebringer[5]:

Dunnstral, Lady Lambdadelta, marcistar, fireisredsir, Bell

Bell[1]:

Firebringer

not voting [4]:

petapan, fferyllt, Ydrasse, notscience,

mod notes

none

flavour

[petapan]

i lied, i went to reread more


i wanted to double-check unwnd because something wasn't sitting right in my head last night and writing him off for the taly stuff felt thin when i had lingering doubts about his play


i still feel like his initial push on lukewarm was overly severe for what was an extremely frivolous comment (i also thought luke came out better in those exchanges, maybe the towniest thing about him given his extremely wack reads)

slightly think he could have been trying to pocket me

520 is nonsensical

posting trends toward boringly self-indulgent but on a reread i'm kind of missing whether there are actually any scumreads he feels strongly about. the continued push on lujkewarm just doesn't feel like it's based on any tangible reality.

content sort of gets brief and empty and i'm not finding the substance behind it. 850 is weak but beyond that it's the lack of thought that goes into it - he had luke as an early tunnel but std and dunn are just thrown in there as afterthoughts. those are 2 names i'd have highlighted as easy pushes in a scum pt. why does he scumread them? who knows

852 is actively terrible and i struggle to see it as a real thought

1153 into 1228 is Something. i'm wondering now where he made his pivot to hard defending marci. i don't think the vote comp is telling because i don't think scum would be likely to see him as an easy mis-elim and taly's vote on him didn't have much teeth at all.

looking at the exchange with taly in context i can see it as plausible distancing


i kind of struffle to see a post or sequence from him i can actually point to as townie

[petapan]

i'm hungry and need to eat breakfast if firebringer comes back and steals the hammer so be it

[petapan]

1493 1494


1498 is bad mostly for lacking in thoroughness


i think the thing that bothers me about that "i don't think scum are on my wagon" post isthe seeming lack of followthrough, if there's a worldview of who are the scum outside the wagon, where is the push, where is the callout

[petapan]

I think we should just leash marci and if she goes 'lol I was roleblocked' it's not the end of the world

Feels like a waste killing her

VOTE: KingTroll

[petapan]

There was a brief moment that GreyICE talked about this. I've thought about the number selection more. How likely is it for two partners to pick the same number? Thoughts in my head ranged from 'this means Taly/Peta/Notty can't be a team' but I'm unsure if that has substantial backing.

Despite this,

we do know that KT/Marci picked different numbers.

If we were somehow just on the money with our suspicions then flipping one of them would be able to somewhat answer that idea to some satisfaction.

man what is that last line

[petapan]

I’m open to other options.

Peta, for instance, is on the table for me.

I'm interested in this thought btw

scummy

I think there is truth to what peta says about worldviews is likely healthy. There's a lot of unknown variables I don't have the answers to. Zeroing in on a team feels like working backwards. I think Peta is..alright. I don't townread him but he's not doing anything pointedly scummy. There are some contradictions, but they don't feel worth delving into. The only point against him is that he

could

have ulterior motive but it requires me to squint in order to see it. Some nitpicks I have with him were how he's handled marci and he merely responded he doesn't care if I scumread him for it. OK. I think he knows he can make that statement as town as much as scum. That's frustrating to admit but hey.

LLD to me either 1) Dies by night or 2) Gets cleared. If neither happens and LLD is alive somewhere close to a XYLO you hit the big red button and sound the alarms.

Ceph is weird. I think his timing is uncanny and imo that's what he excels at as scum. Yet with the other two, there is nothing provable. That's why they don't get eliminated today because nobody here is willing to risk a potshot theory.

Other unknown variables

1) Ydra's attitude this phase
2) What happened with StD earlier
3) Dunnstral being surprisingly candid
4) Taly promises that come up short
5) GreyICE

Game is hard. Too many variables.

KT/Marci are approachable from a D1 standpoint and I expect by-the-book to rule in this environment

You're not gonna see anything left-field

vacuous nonsense