Mafia 88- Return to New Catania- Game Over!

[Xylthixlm]

I notice you've done exactly nothing so far this game, killa seven.

So many lurkers, and I only have one vote.

[Xylthixlm]

Reading through. Scummy posts get noted. Most scummy posts gets vote.

I suggest counting non-scummy posts and voting the person with the fewest.

[militant]

I agree, Tubby should not be lynched anymore due to the fact that he is contributing now. I am going to throw my vote at Puta Puta; he is beginning to annoy me with his blatant disregard for the game and the participants.

Vote Puta Puta

Mod

:Would it be possible for you to post how many votes are required for a lynch with the vote counts please

[Sir Tornado]

On another note, I like OGML's vote for Sir T, and am interested to see how Sir T responds.

I am still on page 9 when I read this... respond to what? There isn't anything to respond to! OGML obviously found something in my posts which he didn't like, and voted me. Don't see what I can do about that.

(catching up now)

[Sir Tornado]

Ok, a few thoughts as I start page 10:

1) I am convinced CKD is town. His attack on Sensfan seems to be very righteous and passionate.

2) I think Der Hammer is someone's alt who is trying to screw this game up by not taking it seriously. I am suspicious of usernames which include any mafia terminology to be alts in the first place, and his behavior upto page 10 doesn't do anything to dissuade me.

3) However, I am not so convinced about BM up to this stage though. I am noticing an overwhelming lack of smileys from him, which I think he puts a lot of when he is town, not sure if this is a general change in his posting style though.

i am supremely disturbed by yos' lurkerhunt "

I agree.

I'm disturbed more people aren't paying attention to who is lurking and who isn't. I'm tried of always having to be the only guy who even bothers to figure out who's been lurking, and then inevitably being attacked for it, even though it's clearly in the best interests of the town.

This does answer it though.

I'm not protecting lurkers, I already found scum, and thats more important.

Ah, the overconfidence...

I do play distinctly different as scum and as town usually, but the play style in this game is deliberately supposed to be a bit ambiguous because I was being sick of being NKed, especially after being NKed on N1 in my last game (which I was really starting to enjoy).

Unvote, Vote: Tubby

Now, this is really strange. You behave like you know 100% for sure I am scum and then you... jump on a up and coming bandwagon?

(Page 11 coming soon)

(Incidentally, I don't find Tubby scummy at all till now)

[Sir Tornado]

Before hand you were very adamant and confident that you had found scum and you vote was where you wanted it on Sir Tornado but as soon as a bandwagon comes along you seem to totally forget about your previous convictions and jump on said bandwagon. Why the sudden change of heart?

QFT, QFT.

The tubbywagon is meh. I prefer a Sir t/Seraphim wagon.

I am liking Shanba more and more in this game. If I ignore the fact that he wants me lynched, he seems very consistent and town-ish.

I'm slightly resentful that, after spending some time constructing a list of this nature, yos decided to do so aswell.

I am shocked BM didn't say anything on Tubby wagon in his first vote since the wagon started.

I didn't forget any previous convictions, but the sir t wagon doesn't, it seems, have any legs, and I like having my vote somewhere that it does some good.

But, if you are so convinced I am scum, shouldn''t you be trying to convince people that I am a scum, and if asked why? So far, your reasons were of the type:

"Vote Sir Tornado
I have found scum"

Criticising me for joining the bandwagon you are on makes me think you might already know its a bad wagon.

There is a difference between a bad wagon and a stupid wagon. If you want to accuse someone of doing something, think what they would gain from doing it. From where I am looking at right now, Tubby couldn't gain anything from saying what he did apart from landing a bunch load of votes on him. There are a few more people in the game (cue to YoS's lurker list) who may well be doing pretty much doing the same thing as Tubby is, except they are not stupid enough to say it aloud.

Many mafia players do a mistake in assuming only mafia can make stupid mistakes. They are completely wrong. Town can make very stupid mistakes too.

I am not criticising the wagon, I think it is good if it gets tubby talking and stops him lurking, but I was suspicious of you because you seemed so sure that Sir T was scum and then you just hop to another wagon. Would you care to elaborate on the phrase "have any legs"; I have never heard of it before. If I understand it correctly you thought Sir T's wagon was not going anyway and was not going to result in a lynch so you jump on another which could materialise into a lynch. This coupled with the speed at which you unvoted Sir T leads me to beleive you just want someone lynched rather than someone you actually beleive to be scum.

The bolded sentence. As you acknowledged, we are both on the same wagon. I have already said I support the wagon because I think tubby needs pressuring, you on the other hand say the bandwagon "has legs" which implies you think it is a good wagon and could result in a lynch. Yet in the bolded sentence you say I might already know it is a bad wagon. If you think it is a bad wagon then why did you join it? If I have misunderstood the phrase "has legs" then I suppose you can ignore this paragraph.

I agree completely with this post.

Let's see, there was an uncommented Vote.
Next we have "Can we talk more about how Sir Tornado is scum and needs a bigger bandwagon?"
Tries to prod Yos into joining the bandwagon, also with no actual comment on SirT
Somewhere in there he said he had found scum.

This makes me think why no one saw this before this... I would ask the same to Shanba too, but I know he doesn't explain his votes even if you ask him to, so I am not about to expend any energy in doing so.

Speaking of which, I still do want to hear from Sir T, and see what he thinks about the wagon on him (even if that wagon's gone away now).

I had my end semesters from 17th to 26th... but I should be back now. finished them about a couple of hours ago... but there were a few thoughts from me in the previous as well as this post (and possibly on the next one depending what happened those pages)

OH HAI THAR.

I hate you.

jester?

Sorry. The Fonz isn't about to jump the shark and put jesters in his game :p

(comments from page 12 coming up soon)

[Sir Tornado]

Mod: Can you repair the quote tags in my last post?

(The one in the very beginning) Thanks.

[Sir Tornado]

Page 12...

Vollkan replaces Panda Stomper 85.

Hello Vollkan


I agree with Shanba on the BM thing. Not liking BM's solution to it though. The proper solution was to not triple post everytime you visit this thread.

At least try.

unvote, vote: BM

I

really

don't like this vote. Do you think BM gains anything from not posting? If he did, would he be going on posting at a rate he was going before Shanba's request? Utter crap.

yawn,,,,Vote:BM

What I said to Natirasha.

I respectfully disagree.

In my experience, it's much more difficult to contribute to a game which is dominated by one player or one argument. You know those situations where two players are going at it hammer and tongs, posting ever longer lists of refutations and accusations at each other? Those make it very difficult for other players, as there's a tendency to sit back and watch the show.

Similarly, BM's posting dominating the thread makes it hard for other players to rise to the forefront. I believe his discussions about Hoopla, for example, have reduced the amount of information we would have received should Hoople have had to present the information his/herself.

Furthermore, it hurts the game going forwards, too - the larger the weight of information, the harder it is for players to catch up, to replace in or to reread the thread. And besides, when there's all this extraneous information about one player, other stuff about other players may get lost in the mass of BM's posts.

I agree with this in principle. I just don't think BM going V/LA is the solution though.

In the early days of his playing career, BM was famous for quoting upside down: that is, putting the text above the quote. Sir T was doing this, (presumably to mock or otherwise take the mickey out of BM), and I noted that it was incredibly annoying.

I wouldn't have done it had he typed my user name in completion instead of just the bland "Tornado".

92: I take issue with the way ST casually states that he no longer suspects Hoopla and doesn't think GC is scummy - no explanations are given for either of these.

I did explain it, I think. I voted Hoopla because I found his no lynch vote scummy, but as the game progressed, I came to the conclusion that it was not scummy. I believe I stated this somewhere.

Also, I vaguely remember waiting for someone's answer to something I asked.

[Sir Tornado]

Page 13. This is fun.

I agree mostly with what Vollkan says on this page.

Tubby is a lurker, like me...there can only be one lurker (me!) so he's got to go. Vote:Tubby

The wagon continues... well, you know what I feel about it by now.

Tubby, the tribe has spoken, it's time for you to go.

And again...

Putta Putta, is Tubby's situation in the game upto this point (page 13) much different than yours? (Apart from a few stupid comments here and there)

[Sir Tornado]

Page 14

Not much to comment on except for some weird behaviour from Natirasha, who isn't looking too pro-town in my opinion. BM not doing a good job at lurking either )

no but i assure you yos all will be revealed soon

Is "All will be revealed soon" your mantra with which you hope to start your own religion some day?

I do agree with YoS's points about Tubby at the end of the page though.

On to page 15 now... possibly after dinner.

[OhGodMyLife]

taking care of mod duties then catching up on this game

[Ectomancer]

Will we always lynch a useless, erratic player if we know they are a useless, erratic player as a matter of course?

[Sir Tornado]

There isn't much to report on pages 15 and 16 except Tubby has stopped lurking and is looking sane again.

Putta Putta, well... that is the sort of D1 bandwagon, which inevitably takes place in almost every game I play, and I am always uncomfortable with it, and I always announce, that I think that person is town, so let's get this out of the way:

I think Putta Putta is giving out null tells at the moment. The reasoning being, I don't see either town OR scum playing the way Putta Putta is playing at the moment. Horrible play. Has anyone played before with Putta? Is this normal for him (her?)?

[Xylthixlm]

I think it's clear puta puta is either (a) a useless, erratic townie, (b) someone who got a neutral role and doesn't know how to play it, or (c) a scum trying to appear as either a or b.

I'm happy with lynching any of the three.

[The Fonz]

iamausername replaces Sobeahero.

[Hoopla]

The annoying thing about lynching Puta Puta is the lack of information tomorrow. For all that has gone on so far the recent pages have just been about trying to wake up the lurkers. We're essentially going to be starting again, because most of the players are behind in this game or not participating.

But overall I'm not overly opposed to lynching players like Puta Puta - the chances of him being scum is about on par with random, with the added bonus of getting rid of someone useless.

Welcome to the rest of the replacements, hopefully you've managed to rip through those BM quote pyramids! And hopefully when OGML catches up too he'll have something on Sir T.

[militant]

Wow, I just counted the votes for Puta Puta and I unknowingly just put him at L-1.

Unvote

Puta Puta, care to claim?

[Xylthixlm]

I thought he was at L-2... we clearly need more frequent votecounts.

[iamausername]

I thought he was at L-2... we clearly need more frequent votecounts.

Me too. If I'd thought he was at L-1, I totally would have hammered. If anyone deserves a policy lynch, it is Puta Puta, and that would be an awesome way to enter the game.

Hi all, I've been semi-following this game as it's been going, but now I'm actually in it, I'm working on a more thorough reread.

[xyzzy]

Reading through. Scummy posts get noted. Most scummy posts gets vote.

I suggest counting non-scummy posts and voting the person with the fewest.

That seems like a good way to help the scum know what behavior to continue. Bad plan, Xyl.

[Sir Tornado]

Me too. If I'd thought he was at L-1, I totally would have hammered. If anyone deserves a policy lynch, it is Puta Puta, and that would be an awesome way to enter the game.

Hammer without a claim? Why would anyone want to do that?

[militant]

Me too. If I'd thought he was at L-1, I totally would have hammered. If anyone deserves a policy lynch, it is Puta Puta, and that would be an awesome way to enter the game.

Hammer without a claim? Why would anyone want to do that?

My thoughts exactly thus my Unvote when I realised.

Puta Puta (7): Natirasha, Yosarian2, Seraphim, Puta Puta, xyzzy, Der Hammer, tubby216

That's part of the vote count from page 16.

Since then Xylthixlm, vollkan and militant have all voted him with brings him to a total of 10 votes, 12 would lynch him I think so he was at L-2. My mistake. Irrespective of my blatant inadequacies as a mafia player I still think Puta Puta needs to claim dsepite the fact that he is now at L-3

[Shanba]

Wait, you're blaming yoru lack of contributing on someone else talking alot? There was nothing stopping you from voicing an opinion on what was going on. Nothing. I refuse to accept hiding behind something like that as a legitamite excuse.

Unvote
Vote: Shanba

[/quote]

You misunderstand. No one is to blame for my own failure to contribute to this game (though I would also dispute the idea that I have not contributed much to this game anyway). However, BM's posts, by making the game less enjoyable in their sheer volume and size make it so that I have less

desire

to contribute to the game.

(Sidenote - I'm pleased to note that BM has found a middle way)

As for why tubby is a worse wagon that Puta - frankly, I detest the way that Puta is ready to lynch someone for the same offences he himself has committed, and at the same time refusing to learn from the chastisements of the rest of the town towards tubby. Subsequent events have reinforced my impression that tubby is a "meh" lynch.

(As a sidenote, I am not on tubby's analysis at all. I'm not listed there as scum, neutral or town. So what does that make me?)

The proper solution was to not triple post everytime you visit this thread.

Irony?

Puta is a decent but not brilliant wagon for today. I have no qualms with getting him to claim now.

[iamausername]

And my reason is more then he's picking on GC, my reason is GC would be a good target for scum to eliminate if he's town.

So basically I'm deciding if he's more likely to be town, or if you [Battle Mage] are

. I'm much more inclined to lynch you though, since that will at least show GC isn't aligned with you. Though sadly if you flip town we effectively learn nothing.

OK, the first thing that strikes me as notably suspicious in this game is this here massive false dilemma set up by THE GUY I REPLACED. Thanks, Sobeahero.

SensFan's entrance is interesting. ckd overreacts massively to Sens choosing to vote before he's finished catching up, and then changing that vote each time he gets further caught up, which I think is a very reasonable way of compensating for his absence at the beginning. Unless there was a risk of him accidentally hammering someone (and there clearly wasn't at this stage), how would this be harmful to the town, ckd?

On the other hand, Sens says in Post #210 that he's caught up, and yet his vote is still stuck on Page 3? Did nothing at all happened on pages 4-9 that was worthy of comment?

...I don't get the anti-Sir T thoughts at all. I have absolutely no idea what it is that everyone is seeing as so scummy there.

vollkan is the first one to pick up on predecessor's total scuminess. I'm surprised he didn't get more attention before this. I've never replaced someone who was my prime suspect before, I'm not really sure how to handle it. I mean, I can't exactly dispute vollkan's arguments when I agree with them.

#312 is :goodposting:. Once we've got the necessary policy lynch on Puta Puta out of the way, OGML is definitely a person of interest.

...And that's a reread done. Besides Puta Puta being terrible, I think SensFan's little "playing five pages behind" thing has generated by far the most interesting reactions. Pretty much, anyone who attacked him for this is on my suspect list, because I don't understand how they could possibly see it as being scummy, but especially so when they had previously said this:

Oddly enough, I agree with BM. GC undermined his own argument in the process of writing it.

Yeah, but is that actually scummy?

The flaw in his reasoning could have been an honest mistake, but there's also a good possibility it wasn't

(its very easy for scum to jump on a standard anti town tell such as voting no lynch)

, and its light years better than a random vote. The random voting stage does exactly zero for forward momentum.

Now, obviously, voting before you've finished catching up on the thread is not a standard anti-town tell, but I think the core argument, that it is easy for scum to jump on someone

acting outside the accepted norms

, actually applies better to the SensFan situation. I understand why a No Lynch vote on D1 is seen as anti-town. I don't understand why making temporary votes while you're catching up on the thread is.

---

Hammer without a claim? Why would anyone want to do that?

What on earth gives you the impression that Puta will do something as helpful as claiming?

Vote: Puta Puta

. He is the worst.

[Sir Tornado]

Irony?

You clearly haven't seen me post 9 times in a row then, have you?

Well, now you have