CR wrote:Oh, and I'd like to ask if when using Fong's Gambit, should you ask for more pressure? Doesn't that hinder with the gambit?
Mizzy wrote:And where's the answer to 155?
How was I to know that a question which seemingly has nothing to do with me was in fact addressed specifically to me? I suggest you be (much) clearer in the future. And this just seems again like you're trying to alternate between criticism of me/Ramus to build a case on either of us (I was not the one "employing Fong's gambit", he was). Anyhow; I don't really know why/how to answer your question, you are apparently referring to Ramus' post 52 where he suggests he deliberately brought pressure on himself by self-voting (see; in future when you're trying to build a case against someone it's polite to actually link to the posts you're talking about rather than making them do all the legwork- in this case I'll indulge you as you clearly haven't got a leg to stand on). Firstly; again, why are you asking me this? Seems like a question better directed at Ramus. Secondly, he openly acknowledged earlier it was his first time attempting a self-vote, so he may just be inexperienced. Alternatively, he is scum trying the gambit poorly. Either way this is entirely irrelevant to my case against you.CR wrote: Seconding an answer to post 155;
Oh, and I'd like to ask if when using Fong's Gambit, should you ask for more pressure? Doesn't that hinder with the gambit?
As I already said, you can interpret it either way and you still don't have a case against me. If voting for someone voting for you was an automatic scumtell just think about what it would mean for the dynamics of the game (hell, read the wiki entry on OMGUS, nowhere does it suggest it's an automatic scumtell). Anyhow I had further reasons for voting for you- it started with the manner of your attack on me and the implied attack on Ramus (note: the "manner" rather than the mere "fact" of your attack). Also, you've subsequently given me even more reasons to vote for you.The way you worded the post, it didn't sound like you were denying it was an OMGUS. It read like you were attempting to acknowledge and dismiss it. So it isn't my fault you are being called on an OMGUS.
Please be clear, are you suggesting I am "lazy town" or "lazy scum"? If "lazy scum" I don't see how this is much different from being "opportunistic scum", so I am skeptical of your distinction. If you are merely suggesting I am "lazy town" then why does it look as though you're mounting a case against me?Mizzy wrote:No, I am implying that he is lazy. As you point out, he hasn't really been opportunistic.CarnCarn wrote: What exactly is this based off of? You are implying that he is being opportunistic.
If this is true, I don't see any reason why he would defend Ramus self-voting (unless maybe if they are scum together, and even then that is not a given) instead of just piling on to that wagon.
Because it was addressed to you, and we even reminded you several times after the fact that it was addressed to you.ortolan wrote:How was I to know that a question which seemingly has nothing to do with me was in fact addressed specifically to me?
No, I don't think it is, but I think your response to the whole thing is the most damning bit against you. Look how much you are over-reacting!ortolan wrote:@ Mizzy: are you aware your strongest argument against me at this point is that my vote against ClockworkRuse *may* have amounted to an OMGUS? I also don't like you "unvoting" in preparation for a new vote without having the guts to follow through.
If I knew, I would have said, but I don't have a clear enough read yet.ortolan wrote:Please be clear, are you suggesting I am "lazy town" or "lazy scum"?
Um, no it wasn't obviously addressed to me, otherwise I would have answered it previously. How the hell am I to know a post about Ramus' play is addressed to me?Mizzy wrote:Because it was addressed to you, and we even reminded you several times after the fact that it was addressed to you.ortolan wrote:How was I to know that a question which seemingly has nothing to do with me was in fact addressed specifically to me?
Considering that at least two of us had entire posts directed to you that included references to the question, it should have been obvious.ortolan wrote:Um, no it wasn't obviously addressed to me, otherwise I would have answered it previously. How the hell am I to know a post about Ramus' play is addressed to me?
It was obvious, after that. It just wasn't at all clear from his initial post.Considering that at least two of us had entire posts directed to you that included references to the question, it should have been obvious.
To me, this says that you voted me with little reasoning besides what's already been said by the others.Battousai wrote:ClockworkRuse wrote:And what would that feeling be?Battousai wrote:Destructer: Pressure votes can do more than just make someone post... Now CR may act differently with x amount of votes than x-1. I also feel there is a good chance CR is scum. I'm just getting the same feeling from him this game as the last game we were in (he was scum, obviously). I didn't really want to say that as a reason of why I feel he is scum since you can't defend yourself from it.What are you expecting here? I already said I felt you were scum.
And I'd like to note, last game you got this feeling I was just attacking a claimed doctor and lurking. Am I doing either at the moment?You can't do the exact same thing every game....
destructor wrote:ortolan's response to me (and Mizzy, I guess) is... more OMGUS?
So... how has your vote changed the dynamics of his play?Battousai wrote:Destructer: Pressure votes can do more than just make someone post... Now CR may act differently with x amount of votes than x-1. I also feel there is a good chance CR is scum. I'm just getting the same feeling from him this game as the last game we were in (he was scum, obviously). I didn't really want to say that as a reason of why I feel he is scum since you can't defend yourself from it.That's like asking what would have happened if you went to the mall instead of the movies. You can only speculate on how he would act.
What have you learnt through your "pressure" vote on him?From what has been said, I don't think CR has done anything worth being lynched yet. But maybe being at L-2 he has kept up being active.
"I'm just getting the same feeling" means gut?How is his play similar as a game where he was scum? Do you know that he hasn't played the same as town?Yes, that's why I haven't really listed it as a reason for the vote, since you can't defend against gut.I get the same feeling I had as the game I was in when he was scum.
And I don't buy into this whole idea that you can call something a "pressure" vote and it will automatically mean anything. Your vote on CR is doing nothing but increasing the chances of him being lynched, not because it's outing him as scum, but because of cold and impartial game mechanics. You haven't made a case on CR and I see your reasoning - "pressure" - as an excuse to jump onto his wagon.ClockworkRuse wrote:I'd also like to point out that this is almost the exact same situation as the first Newbie game I played with you.Battousai wrote:Destructer: Pressure votes can do more than just make someone post... Now CR may act differently with x amount of votes than x-1. I also feel there is a good chance CR is scum. I'm just getting the same feeling from him this game as the last game we were in (he was scum, obviously). I didn't really want to say that as a reason of why I feel he is scum since you can't defend yourself from it.
How does my play here add up to my play there?Honestly, I haven't looked back at that game at all
I'm not going to bother to go read the wiki. The wiki is FILLED with information, but that doesn't mean I have to trust or believe in all of it.Ort wrote:As I already said, you can interpret it either way and you still don't have a case against me. If voting for someone voting for you was an automatic scumtell just think about what it would mean for the dynamics of the game (hell, read the wiki entry on OMGUS, nowhere does it suggest it's an automatic scumtell). Anyhow I had further reasons for voting for you- it started with the manner of your attack on me and the implied attack on Ramus (note: the "manner" rather than the mere "fact" of your attack). Also, you've subsequently given me even more reasons to vote for you.
That's not what Mizzy seems to think. You both reiterated it as though it was addressed to me, and as though I was somehow to have already known that. But this is a fairly pointless train of discussion.Before I go through the posts, the Fong's Gambit question wasn't just to you, Ort. It was to the entire town.
I have already done so, I have little of substance to add at this point.Please post your more reasons to vote. I would love to see a case summary from you.
Then please reiterate your suspicions into one post.ortolan wrote:That's not what Mizzy seems to think. You both reiterated it as though it was addressed to me, and as though I was somehow to have already known that. But this is a fairly pointless train of discussion.Before I go through the posts, the Fong's Gambit question wasn't just to you, Ort. It was to the entire town.
I have already done so, I have little of substance to add at this point.Please post your more reasons to vote. I would love to see a case summary from you.
Ort, this seems to sum up the nature of your case on CR. So, my question to you was completely legitimate. You haven't explained why someone making poor arguments makes them especially suspicious.ortolan, emphasis added wrote:I have felthis arguments against mesince I've been actively voting for himhave been even more horrible than those he made prior.
I think Battousai is scum. You're the first player to express a problem with this. Should I be worried?ortolan wrote:And on your comment on Battousai; while I certainly won't deny the possibility he's scum I don't like how you've been singling in upon him since your very first post of content. He openly conceded that his pressure vote was exactly what it was when he made it. I personally don't think scum would make such an attention-drawing move.
Tell me why aggressive play is scummy and I'll consider making a defence on that point. What's to dislike about my attack on the CR wagon?ortolan wrote:Also; destructor, I am suspicious of how aggressive your approach has been ever since you replaced in. I also dislike your justification for trying to divert suspicion from ClockworkRuse.
You've just said that his play is unpredictable. So, if you couldn't know what CR was going to do, how would his reactions to the pressure have been meaningful? That is, what was the point of pressuring CR, again?Battousai wrote:destructor wrote:So... how has your vote changed the dynamics of his play?That's like asking what would have happened if you went to the mall instead of the movies. You can only speculate on how he would act.
You're sending mixed messages here. You don't think CR's done anything lynch-worthy, but you think he's playing like he does as scum. If he's playing like he's scum, shouldn't that be enough to lynch him?Battousai wrote:What have you learnt through your "pressure" vote on him?From what has been said, I don't think CR has done anything worth being lynched yet. But maybe being at L-2 he has kept up being active.
So... the point here would be for you toBattousai wrote:"I'm just getting the same feeling" means gut?Yes, that's why I haven't really listed it as a reason for the vote, since you can't defend against gut.
...
How is his play similar as a game where he was scum? Do you know that he hasn't played the same as town?I get the same feeling I had as the game I was in when he was scum.
I still see no merit in your vote. You haven't been scum-hunting. You just jumped on CR's wagon and have been coasting through the day, only posting when I call you out.destructor wrote:And I don't buy into this whole idea that you can call something a "pressure" vote and it will automatically mean anything. Your vote on CR is doing nothing but increasing the chances of him being lynched, not because it's outing him as scum, but because of cold and impartial game mechanics. You haven't made a case on CR and I see your reasoning - "pressure" - as an excuse to jump onto his wagon.
