Open 876 - Fire and Ice - Postgame

[Alianna]

1.16

Votecount 1.16

usesPython (E-2): Oclaxian Empire, The Bulge, Aureal, Doctor Drew, Black
Black (3): Kokichi Oma, biancospino, furtiveglance
Doctor Drew (2): usesPython, Enchant

Not Voting (3): Malakittens, osuka, HighPrincessErinys

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-04-20 18:48:28).

[usesPython]

This conversation has me dizzy

Yeah FaI is kinda like Coalition in that you basically have to solve the game by d1 or you just lose. It's good to be looking at least as far as d2/d3

-A

[usesPython]

Why do you even TR Kokichi so much python?

They're not as blatantly manipulative as they were in DN mafia

-A

[biancospino]

Anyway, I'd like to stop talking mech now. There is a specific thing I think will happen this night if Python is scum, and almost only if unless the RNGod frowns on us. That's the last I'll say on the topic.

I also want to repeat myself that Drew isn't happening today, not with my vote. I have a very strong gutread there that scum!Drew and town!Bulge is not a thing.

[usesPython]

I'm willing to settle for Bulge then. Enchant and Furtive can I convince y'all to hop on a Bulge wagon instead?

-A

[Black]

Why do you even TR Kokichi so much python?

They're not as blatantly manipulative as they were in DN mafia

-A

Elaborate

[usesPython]

Why do you even TR Kokichi so much python?

They're not as blatantly manipulative as they were in DN mafia

-A

Elaborate

UNVOTE: wanna think about it some more

if koki is scum, that's exactly the type of manipulation tactics I expect him to use and make people feel insecure and lots of other bad things. he has no reason to bring up past games w/ you just to complain about your reads in that game.

he is also doing that w/ me, saying I'm only scumreading him because I'm scared of being fooled. it's simply undermining our leans with things that are not this game. in this game, kokichi is scummy, and doing these things fits with his scum range. I expect town koki to try and talk on the level of where the conversations are instead of doing this.

[usesPython]

Like from what I've read of DN mafia I'd expect scum!Kokichi to be actively discrediting the people defending you instead of just yelling "Black scum"

-A

[HighPrincessErinys]

VOTE: furtiveglance
Fucking RANCID vibes from you this game furtive. Though in general this whole situation with python/black/drew just stinks of

extremely

strange play.

[usesPython]

Also we need to be limming the same groupscum today and tomorrow, can the people doing individual scumhunting start looking into what partners make sense with their scumreads and focus on solving for pairs?

-A

[Black]

Like from what I've read of DN mafia I'd expect scum!Kokichi to be actively discrediting the people defending you instead of just yelling "Black scum"

-A

Weird. I seem to remember scum!Kokichi forming pushes off meta that game

Look at these 2 iso's from Gimli's last 2 games and compare to this so far. Just from Day 1s. Does no one else see the difference? Look how much he hopped around compared to how 'certain' he is with his reads here.

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=23&t=90376&user_select%5B%5D=34779

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90328&user_select%5B%5D=34779

Seems kinda familiar...

I have no idea how you can look at a weak meta read and place him in your top town category

[usesPython]

I'm not talking about making meta pushes, I'm talking about playing to discredit the people in the way of their goal vs playing to push their scumread

-A

[Black]

His play this game hasn't been town motivated at all but you're giving him a pass for not being as manipulative about it?

[Black]

I actually think a python/Kokichi team makes a lot of sense if I'm solving for pairs

[usesPython]

If Kokichi was scum I'd have expected them to have tried to discredit Aureal in 430 for example, and like yeah I can think their meta push is bad and also think they're town

-A

[HighPrincessErinys]

This one doesn't think it wants a Black elim anymore, and it's not very sure about voting like, Python or Drew either at the moment. But its pretty sure that it'd like to elim furtive who really is not playing like he normally would in its opinion.

[HighPrincessErinys]

If Kokichi was scum I'd have expected them to have tried to discredit Aureal in 430 for example, and like yeah I can think their meta push is bad and also think they're town

-A

You were the one who went along with the push?

[usesPython]

If Kokichi was scum I'd have expected them to have tried to discredit Aureal in 430 for example, and like yeah I can think their meta push is bad and also think they're town

-A

You were the one who went along with the push?

Yeah before we had time to do anything more than read the DN playerlist and see that if Kokichi was scum pushing town then you'd also have to be scum. We're perfectly willing to sheep people for pressure if we have ways of verifying if it's a good push that require days of work.

-A

[usesPython]

This one doesn't think it wants a Black elim anymore, and it's not very sure about voting like, Python or Drew either at the moment. But its pretty sure that it'd like to elim furtive who really is not playing like he normally would in its opinion.

Furtive's weird yeah but I need them alive to push Bulge/Drew and I don't know who they'd be partnered with so I'm not willing to lim Furtive today

-A

[usesPython]

Just fyi I'm pretty blatantly gonna be making deals with unpaired obvscum today if I don't have a fullsolve and I need to to get a Drew or Bulge lim through

-A

[usesPython]

if Kokichi was scum pushing town then you'd also have to be scum.

-A

We townread you already by then btw which is why we didn't bother worrying about that scenario

-A

[Black]

This one doesn't think it wants a Black elim anymore, and it's not very sure about voting like, Python or Drew either at the moment. But its pretty sure that it'd like to elim furtive who really is not playing like he normally would in its opinion.

Unfortunately this type of play is well within furtive's townrange now. I'm not trying to sway you away from voting him but I don't think I'll be joining you. This behavior is NAI for him

[HighPrincessErinys]

if Kokichi was scum pushing town then you'd also have to be scum.

-A

We townread you already by then btw which is why we didn't bother worrying about that scenario

-A

Yeah, it just sounded moreso like you weren't quite acknowledging that you were part of the push, but true it takes a while to thoroughly read and analyze an ISO and make a different judgement. Either way though there's something very fishy going on which has this one not sure who to vote and how to proceed.

[biancospino]

Also we need to be limming the same groupscum today and tomorrow, can the people doing individual scumhunting start looking into what partners make sense with their scumreads and focus on solving for pairs?

-A

I know I've said I would stop talking mech, but this is just kind of egregious. Like you know full well that X/2 has a worse EV than X/1/1, you don't even have to run the number yourself, you can just check the EV project on the wiki (and in fact X/1/1 in this game is even more advantageous to town than montaneous since scum may waste their kill). Why the need to lie?

[usesPython]

Also we need to be limming the same groupscum today and tomorrow, can the people doing individual scumhunting start looking into what partners make sense with their scumreads and focus on solving for pairs?

-A

I know I've said I would stop talking mech, but this is just kind of egregious. Like you know full well that X/2 has a worse EV than X/1/1, you don't even have to run the number yourself, you can just check the EV project on the wiki (and in fact X/1/1 in this game is even more advantageous to town than montaneous since scum may waste their kill). Why the need to lie?

Worse in EV in the random lim/nk sense yes, better in EV in the real world since it means people can start scumhunting like they're used to and scum can't hide behind scumhunting other scum. If people were willing to commit to a consensus townread and have them roll a bunch of dice that'd be followed for lims then you'd have a point however

-A