In post 1080, ActionDan wrote:
That's not my focus, its more important if it makes sense to do and my thought is no
this could be playstyle difference. you seem to play more logically, and i play instinctually. My conversation with abngeation felt good, and didnt feel like a pocket, so my read evolved. i think it makes perfect sense. It's not like i'd make a poor read flop like that as scum without making sure there's a reason to do so anyways.
Going after Feysal doesn't seem like a strong enough reason, especially considering I was aiming my focus elsewhere, like strongarming Furt, as you said.
I don't believe I'm doing that, and I've given my new feeling on Furt in the last few posts anyways, though
My role is Affiliation. Can target someone at night, and if they share Affiliation, they get put in a Vacuum together. Blue targeted Keeper Night 1, so I did see ActionDan mention something about noticing something with the two of them.
Unless you think I'm lying, this means Keeper/Myself are not scum together on a game design level.
You can see further that I knew Keeper wasn't the Flyer Vendor.
I also stated in that vacuum that Furt was lean scum prior to Furt's vote on me.
Sounds like a Masonizer claim.
Mechanically, this means:
Keeper is only scum if Flavor Leaf is also scum.
Therefore, any votes on The Keeper should instead be on Flavor Leaf.
I think if I were to assume this claim being true, it puts the remaining 3 scum in some unlikely places, so I'll have to think on this one.
This is not true, and the fact that he saw it as Masonizer could be a possible Keeper-Furt connection, but I don't know if Keeper acts this way with Furt as their partner.
It would kinda fit with Furt coming after me after Keeper knew I was lean scum there, so it looked like OMGUS, but I'm not sure it goes that deep.
My Furt scum read had been fading a little bit, and I might be overthinking this, since I did semi see Keeper/Myself as Mason.
Keeper said into a masonry in the thread, and i hadnt said elsewise in the vacuum.
I need to think on some stuff.
Furt saying Masonry is weird here based on the role claim only.
What are you talking about? How is it possible for Keeper to be scum with you town?
I thought your role was target someone, and if they share alignment with you, you get a PT. Have I misunderstood?
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 52, Abnegation wrote:
wanted this to be a pagetop but oh well.
i’m a fancy miller. i show to alignment checks as malediction on odd nights and benediction on even nights.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
Yeah. Or else we wouldn't have been able to get in the Vacuum together.
It's a pretty simple role, but I had the confusion at first as well.
I think I had it, though, because in thread, Keeper called it Pseudo-Masonry, and them and Blue played along with it.
I don't think they were trying to abuse that, though, and might have legit thought it was, but I asked the mod if Keeper could be a different alignment with Affiliation, and got confirmation they could. Doesn't mean they are, but yeah.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 1111, Abnegation wrote:
if they've got the same role name, do they also have the same ability?
it just seems like an odd role.
Yeah, we both should have. We also can't be put into other Vacuums. I've done Third Party Variations of this before, but I usually make them Lovers, which is kinda funny a Loverizer is in this game, and another reason I thought it was a possible scum parallel role.
It is strictly Invocation here, though, not Third Party. That part Keeper and I don't have to share, though. But we can pair if we find each other because of Afilliation Concept.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
In post 1063, ActionDan wrote:Second, Abnegation's defense of suggesting the benediction faction doesn't have a standard kill and the evidence they cite to show that don't match up - and while I was looking at Mod's posts and Rauth's post what I think they do match up to and what I'm starting to believe is Ice's theory or something very similar. I'll go over both.
Mod posts: The only time the Mod has mentioned anything about scum in this setup is the general information post 2 and rauth's scum flip. from that we can see that it appears Benediction has 2 members and Factional abilities may or may not be non-standard.
That 2nd sentence probably isn't talking about the factional kill. Rather I'm thinking about the message the Keeper got. That probably was a factional ability (because at this point it being unclaimed makes it way less likely a townie did that).
In post 154, The Keeper wrote:
Invocation is the means to obtain both Benediction and Malediction. Affiliation with either is yet to be decided, I'd rather neither as the
freedom to invoke both and maintain balance
is crucial.
Bolded is what I'm talking about.
if that’s true, can you guys do invocation a favour and shoot them?
Neither Benediction or Malediction's intent in finding each other is to kill, but something else, though death will be the end result. It's why I wouldn't have claimed benediction unless I was going to die, even as a last resort.
I won't spoil what it is though.
In post 604, Rautherdir wrote:
... At least I assume Malediction has a similar situation as us. I don't actually know for certain!
If Benediction / Malediction aren't trying to kill each other maybe they're trying to out each other, or at least have a factional ability that only very specifically affects / does something to them (which, btw, we haven't seen from green team). This would classify as non-standard surely.
Obviously it would be tempting for Abnegation to try to finesse these into fitting in with an altered factional kill but there's evidence directly counter to that as well in that Rauth mentioned as quoted above that Malediction is in a similar situation to Benediction and we know Malediction can kill standardly.
There would never have been a need to tell Malediction that green team wasn't specifically "killing" Hell Froze Over (btw where are you guys?). It's quite obvious that message was to encourage Red to take the free kill while green would target whomever they wanted to.
Basically I am not assuaged and still think there's a high possibility Abnegation is green.
i did some research into this, it's at the end.
i don't see a strong basis to assume this. it could easily be a scum personal ability, or even a town one if hugir just isn't claiming it. either way, there's a pretty good reason for a publishing cop not to claim (i.e. their info is already out in the open, so claiming really just puts a target on their back).
also, let me get this straight. what you're theorizing is that malediction has both a factional kill and a factional publishing benediction cop, correct?
i don't even need to quote the counter-evidence for that, you already did. yes, rautherdir said they assumed malediction was in a similar situation, but it was in the very next sentence that they clarified it was just an assumption and they didn't know for sure. this is a pretty clear misrepresentation of their posts. i do wonder if it's too blatant to have been done on purpose though.
we also don't know for sure if malediction can kill standardly. flavor's theory of trading factional kills could still be viable (though i do think malediction having a standard kill is more likely).
from the perspective of neither team knowing what the other team's factional ability is, there's still a good reason they might say that. even if benediction can't kill the ic, they still want them dead. if they don't explicitly say they won't be on the ic, there is a risk that malediction assumes benediction will be on the ic or wifoms themselves out of making that kill.
and finally, that research/mod meta i was talking about:
Spoiler:
it’s just common practice for the mod to mention the factional kill in the scum role pms. the fact that it isn’t there is conspicuous.
i did some mod meta to see if maybe this is just how rh writes his role pms, and it’s only confirmed my initial theory.
rh has modded 7 games on this site, not including this one:
- micro 1051 - minimalist micro normal
- open 860 - elected decisions
- masqué (which was a dance game)
- community + community redux
- newbie 2107 (i’m not going to count this because role pms are standardized in that queue)
- micro 1068 - normal designer mafia
- open 872 - citadel conflict (guardians of the fortress)
(i only looked at the one account, so i may have missed something)
the highlighted games are the ones in which the scumteam has had a standard factional kill. in each of those games, it has been explicitly mentioned in either the setup information post or in the role pms that the scum are able to remove one player from the game each night (flavoured in different ways). even in normal games where atypical factional abilities aren't possible. i can’t quote from the mod pts, but i will provide the links.
if rh wanted to make it clear that both scumteams have a standard factional kill, he probably would have. the fact that he both:
- was completely ambiguous about factional kills, and
- explicitly said that factional abilities might not be standard
suggests that it’s at least possible they don’t.
i am getting sus vibes out of your post, but i don't quite have an explanation.
this post ate up hours of my life that i will never get back. actual reads tomorrow/the day after.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
i will be my undoing if i become my obsession.
i will forget the ones i love if i do not serve them.
i will war with others if i refuse to see them.
therefore i choose to turn away from my reflection,
to rely not on myself
but on my brothers and sisters,
to project always outwards
until i disappear.
My role is Affiliation. Can target someone at night, and if they share Affiliation, they get put in a Vacuum together. Blue targeted Keeper Night 1, so I did see ActionDan mention something about noticing something with the two of them.
Unless you think I'm lying, this means Keeper/Myself are not scum together on a game design level.
You can see further that I knew Keeper wasn't the Flyer Vendor.
I also stated in that vacuum that Furt was lean scum prior to Furt's vote on me.
Why? FL wants to strongarm Furtive into a red scum slot; what reason do you have to think this?
i said it's probably possible, not that they probably knew he was parity cop.
responding to the factional kill stuff in a bit.
I actually don't think it's possible, because if Furtive is redscum with one partner, and their role is loverizer, then the other scum would have to have a rolecop for them to know.
However, it's highly unlikely IMO to have a rolecop for 2 reasons:
1. Doesn't really fit in with the theme of this game of unique concepts like ambition, propagation, affiliation and even confirmation - none of these are normal, straightforward utility roles, but rather have a sort of a complex use to them. It just doesn't fit.
2. The other scum is more than likely to have some sort of roleblock, since nobody claimed roleblock and I feel it would be really weird if confirmation existed only to find that HFO is ascetic and/or to find that they are being blocked by Aisa's role. Mind you, the roleblocker wouldn't be Benediction because then it wouldn't make sense for Benediction to also have Confirmation.
Which ends up semi-confirming Furtive as town, unless scum!Furtive decided to make an extremely risky play, knowing the other scum team 100% doesn't have a way to kill Enchant.
sus vibes