TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Bellaphant]

I think a reads list from mith would be helpful because actually there's a bit there about looking at stuff in detail while not bringing massive progress that was my issue with lld.


I have a complicated post about datisi and lld in my head but it's prob not worth it for the conclusion

P-edit I think it's becoming good strategy to murder klick. Especially if he hasn't taken the garbage out

[Bellaphant]

Also, noone in the thread seems to be tr ING steag but no-one is voting them

[Alisae]

LLD Rad Marashu Gimli Cephrir Imaginality Bella Datisi Ythan
Mena Staeg mith

btw Rad Me Bella Marashu LLD Imaginality Cephrir is 7 votes.
Is this voting bloc of interest to all members within it?

[Alisae]

Also, noone in the thread seems to be tr ING steag but no-one is voting them

Funny
I actually remember imaginality stating a tr on that slot for how they interacted with me

[Bellaphant]

...id be really interested to see a town cas in like two sentences from anyone

[Alisae]

If there is a jailkeeper I am going to advocate for my slot being a very good jailkeep target if a jailkeeper is out there.
I am a very good defensive jailkeep!

[Datisi]

What's my scum motivation for claiming the UB-rolecop slot LLD? I don't think it helps me more than claiming VT would, given that people scumreading me would want the chance to get rid of a scum rolecop.

I would 100% fakeclaim VT in this slot as scum if I was rolecop. Or else I'd fakeclaim say doc or tracker or PGO or something to try to draw a counterclaim or at least get a read on who might have that role (if scum don't have that slot).

i don't believe this for a second and i don't think you do either. with how much discussion there's been about "we don't wanna reveal power roles for scum" i think you literally just die if you claim vt.

and they post these^^ 10 minutes after posting this:

Also this claim is potentially either verifiable (depending on what the first flipped PR is), and/or probably gets me NKed sometime soon which is good for the game (better town players live longer) and good for me.

come the fuck on now.

Staeg followed up on me for when I unvoted his slot.
I think if he was bussing he would definitely whip up some kind of bullshit on why he thought Imaginality was a wolf.

Honestly I want to vote this out of the game because this slot should pretty much always be a wolf.

i agree with the first two lines but how tf do you get to the last one

He just threw out the idea and tried to see if anyone would buy into it in a gamestate where I don't think anyone was going to care.

this isn't townie lol

I feel confident about Imaginality town here...

i don't love this.

all of these things you pointed out about imaginality were present at the time you voted for imaginality. what were you thikning about them at that time?

The one thing I'm still really concerned about with imaginality is why town!imag claims early in the first place, especially with UB as a 12-slot. Like, if you are low in the draft and have a good role, I would think you would want to conceal it because scum likely won't be PR hunting at the bottom of the draft.

this is making me think, like. if imaginality is town, he knows that his claim is potentially valuable, especially if there's a good pr death early. so i'd expect more, like, survivalistic acting throughout this day, i'd expect him to be actually pushing things in top draft or at least not be afraid of more strongly pushing someone like lld that he thinks is scum.

but his play here kinda feels like more of the... inconsistent mindset things i pointed out earlier about his play. trying to both argue that top draft isn't a bad flip and not piss off town-lld with strongly pushing her.

[Datisi]

Also, noone in the thread seems to be tr ING steag but no-one is voting them

...

the main thought about the top of the draft for a while has been "we don't vote top of draft today" why are you saying this as if it's some sorta gotcha for why staeg is scum?

[Datisi]

VOTE: imaginality

imaginality's posting has gotten worse since they've claimed and something is very fucking wrong about these attempts to vote staeg

[imaginality]

My townread on Staeg was basically just because they seemed very relaxed about Alisae's scumread on them. "Ok ya I see why you see it that way" and "I don't have any issues with your vote on me now, gl".

If Staeg is known for being cool under pressure then that attitude becomes null I guess (and I supposed they could be getting coached by their team). I could see maybe that asking Alisae why she moved her vote off Staeg might be performative.

Does anyone have good meta on Staeg?

[Alisae]

My townread on Staeg was basically just because they seemed very relaxed about Alisae's scumread on them. "Ok ya I see why you see it that way" and "I don't have any issues with your vote on me now, gl".

If Staeg is known for being cool under pressure then that attitude becomes null I guess (and I supposed they could be getting coached by their team). I could see maybe that asking Alisae why she moved her vote off Staeg might be performative.

Does anyone have good meta on Staeg?

They interacted with LLD this way as well and honestly, I don’t see why it’s town?
It’s not doing anything to move the game forward and this is how I love to interact with town who is right on me being a wolf. Go with the reasonable “ya I can see why you think that” approach and hope u get tr’d for it

[Alisae]

Datisi didn’t interact with any of the goodposting fucking lmao

[Alisae]

This is why Datisi isn’t in the voting bloc

[Datisi]

Datisi didn’t interact with any of the goodposting fucking lmao

what goodposting did i not interact with and can you explain your read progression on imaginality

[Alisae]

All of my posting on page 64.
I wanted to tr him as I was posting most of those posts

[Datisi]

All of my posting on page 64.

i read those posts and my thought throughout reading them was "these are all reasons to scumread imag not townread them, what the fuck is alisae doing"

[Alisae]

[imaginality]

What's my scum motivation for claiming the UB-rolecop slot LLD? I don't think it helps me more than claiming VT would, given that people scumreading me would want the chance to get rid of a scum rolecop.

I would 100% fakeclaim VT in this slot as scum if I was rolecop. Or else I'd fakeclaim say doc or tracker or PGO or something to try to draw a counterclaim or at least get a read on who might have that role (if scum don't have that slot).

i don't believe this for a second and i don't think you do either. with how much discussion there's been about "we don't wanna reveal power roles for scum" i think you literally just die if you claim vt.

and they post these^^ 10 minutes after posting this:

Also this claim is potentially either verifiable (depending on what the first flipped PR is), and/or probably gets me NKed sometime soon which is good for the game (better town players live longer) and good for me.

come the fuck on now.

I don't think I was under so much pressure that I get autolimmed claiming VT as scum. Claiming UB-rolecop seemed double edged to me because I could envisage players suspecting me would be more motivated to vote me out rather than less.

Feel free to disagree, but I stand by what I said: if I were scum in this slot I'd either claim VT or claim something more useful to town if my team wanted me to try to get a counterclaim.

The one thing I'm still really concerned about with imaginality is why town!imag claims early in the first place, especially with UB as a 12-slot. Like, if you are low in the draft and have a good role, I would think you would want to conceal it because scum likely won't be PR hunting at the bottom of the draft.

this is making me think, like. if imaginality is town, he knows that his claim is potentially valuable, especially if there's a good pr death early. so i'd expect more, like, survivalistic acting throughout this day, i'd expect him to be actually pushing things in top draft or at least not be afraid of more strongly pushing someone like lld that he thinks is scum.

I was pushing mith, he's in the top 4. I still scumread him. But I don't think enough others do?

I can't keep up with LLD 1v1 - I've made my case on her and hope it'll convince others to help push her but D1 pushes aren't something I'm particularly known for in active games.

Also I'm not sure either that pushing top draft players or pushing LLD hard is in line with your idea of me being survivalistic - seems like it would attract more focus and counterpressure? So if I drive that harder I'm being less survivalistic, if I push it less I'm not doing that enough? Maybe I happen to be striking a happy medium?

but his play here kinda feels like more of the... inconsistent mindset things i pointed out earlier about his play. trying to both argue that top draft isn't a bad flip and not piss off town-lld with strongly pushing her.

There are easier ways I could avoid pissing off LLD if that was my aim.

[Menalque]

Just saw the prod, my b, I thought I’d posted on Friday but I guess not

implo I have a standing V/LA at weekends pls

@thread my parents arrived to visit me yesterday! I’m unlikely to be on again today but normal service will resume tomorrow when I have gaps in my day

I haven’t been reading but my discord has been buzzing periodically so I’m pretty sure jingle/koba have (and maybe PB) so I’ll share those next time I’m around too

[Menalque]

Also UNVOTE:

[Menalque]

From discord: jingle says that anyone who tried to draft UB but didn’t get it should claim bc outing UB bad but clearing a VT good

[Bellaphant]

^ is probably a good idea

[Datisi]

1579 - this says nothing about imag's alignment

1585 - imag could misinterpret the situation as either alignment; also, if he's scum and you're town, he could be claiming early because he thinks you (and anyone else familiar with that game or that has a teammate familiar with that game) would recognize the similarities and ask him about it

TBH he said there might be a reason to lim top 4.
If he's a wolf, I think you have to think his wolf game is impressive enough to try to be ballsy and try to push back against pushing the top 4 the way he did. This would also assume that he, as a wolf, wants to push the top 4. I feel like if this was his aim as a wolf, I feel like he would have actually pushed someone in the top 4.

He just threw out the idea and tried to see if anyone would buy into it in a gamestate where I don't think anyone was going to care.
I need to re-read his ISO and see how it is he actually tried to do that, because my read is that he tries to make a show of it if he's a wolf instead of whatever it is he actually did.

It's possible that he genuinely sees good reason why pushing top 4 is to be considered and that wasn't some kind of slimy attempt at pushing top 4

if he's a scum UB who's planning to trueclaim, it would make sense he'd have to be hinting at being fine with top of draft flipping first. but him saying that doesn't actually line up with his actions as i've explained before.

i think scum him would actually be less likely to "actually push" in top 4 because that is going to get stronger backlash. and "threw the idea out and tried to see if anyone would buy into it" is not how town plays

[imaginality]

@Alisae to your question of how my worldview has changed since my claim:

I don't think I have enough voice or enough town consensus to get LLD or mith limmed today. Which is frustrating because I doubt I'm wrong about them.

I didn't like Cephrir then pushing for a quick end to the day in 1552 and LLD's reaction seemed overblown like not even considering the possibility of me telling the truth.

I also think since Gimli had time for a post before his V/LA it would have been good for him to give his initial take on my claim before disappearing for the weekend.

I liked your posts, like 1561 and the following few, and 1581. Marashu's from 1565 also reads genuine, as does the sequence of 1588 - 1592 - 1595 - 1610 from Rad.

I like Datisi's continued pressure even if I disagree with him, I think he's trying to solve rather than trying to mislim.

My reads as of now are
Alisae
Rad, Bella, Marashu
Gimli, Datisi
Menalque, Cephrir, Ythan, Staeg
mith
LLD

[Alisae]

Why would he as a wolf ub/rolecop plan on claiming????