Mini Normal 2299 | Postgame [Village win]

[Theta Alpine]

or maybe i could just
not randomly vote

that is also a possibility

VOTE: alianna

arbitrary voting on the other hand

[Theta Alpine]

sure flavor leaf can be villager

i do not exactly have any mechanics to theorycraft around so uh

i will be slightly lost during the rvs stage

[Theta Alpine]

only 2 wolves hmm

must be a 3rd party then as well

[Theta Alpine]

hmm i might be unfamiliar with the current rules for normals

but yeah fair enough

[Theta Alpine]

wait can there even be traitors in a werewolf game

wiki page says they must be mafia aligned
which precludes them being werewolf

[Theta Alpine]

oh right

yeah let me do that real quick
did not even think about that

[Theta Alpine]

i mean like i said mech speak is what i have right now

anyways
i suppose mafia is interchangeable with informed minority

[Theta Alpine]

yeah

3 scum or 3 + traitor

but i doubt it is traitor game so

unless town have really powerful roles i would say just 3

[Theta Alpine]

i would expect that to just be part of standard ruleset rather then a hint at extra killing power

besides any extra kills will be very noticeable most likely

[Theta Alpine]

oh hello enchant would you like to engage in mechanical discussion

but no apparently no 3rd party cause normal rules
which i have still not actually read so that is word of mouth

[Theta Alpine]

i would love to get out of rvs so i can actually do useful stuff

but i have not seen anything i can really use to do so yet
all i have is a town read on flavor leaf

p-edit
someone claimed wolf with another person
which is 2 people
and i somehow decided that meant it was a claim of only 2 scum in the team instead of the more logical but still joking assumption that they were just not claiming their entire team

[Theta Alpine]

the sort of joke that is only really acceptable in rvs due to game rules but

yeah

and then me being me i started to wander into setup spec
which i am trying to avoid doing cause we know nothing right now

[Theta Alpine]

hmmm so do we just

pick someone to be a sacrificial lamb and flip them then

and maybe in the attempt at doing so we might get game-advancing content

wait that is just rws

[Theta Alpine]

look i have like almost 0 chance of surviving to the end of the game just by nature of being me so

i would like to get out of rvs so i can start doing reads lists that are not just you being town and everyone else in null
or well
doing reads lists at all i have not even made one yet cause
yeah
rvs

p-edit
this is true
i just do not function well in rvs unless i have mechanical things to work off of and
we do not have that in normals
and i have not figured out a good gambit to advance gamestate this game

[Theta Alpine]

at least i am not lurking through rvs this game so far
i usually just did that if i remember correctly from back before my break

though i am not really advancing game state either so
not sure if that is actually an improvement

[Theta Alpine]

see the thing is

i know i am not going to survive to the end of the game
so i do not need people to really town read me
i just need to not be scum read until i can figure out the game and get good reads on people before i do get flipped

[Theta Alpine]

see the thing is

i know i am not going to survive to the end of the game
so i do not need people to really town read me
i just need to not be scum read until i can figure out the game and get good reads on people before i do get flipped

Why do you keep saying you won't survive to the end of the game?

statistics
i have only ever survived in situations where town won so quickly that i never ended up on the chopping block
and that has only happened once so far

[Theta Alpine]

honestly i am fine with it
i usually survive long enough to get good reads and interactions with people
so my inevitable death usually still helps my win condition

noticeably more when i am scum then town but
i was getting better at my town games when i took my break from mafia games
hopefully that continues

[Theta Alpine]

Theta, I don't like this tone you have. Really feels like you are trying to guide things where you want them to go, and using ate to manipulate people into feeling bad for rvs.

So if you are going to complain about the game state, either do something to get it moving, or just step aside and let nature take it's course.

to be fair i think this is why i used to lurk through rvs

sometimes i do think of a way to advance game state i just have not been able to so far
well
maybe i have in doing this but unintentionally
let me reply to others now

[Theta Alpine]

i would love to get out of rvs so i can actually do useful stuff

but i have not seen anything i can really use to do so yet
all i have is a town read on flavor leaf

p-edit
someone claimed wolf with another person
which is 2 people
and i somehow decided that meant it was a claim of only 2 scum in the team instead of the more logical but still joking assumption that they were just not claiming their entire team

Why is flavor town here

flavor leaf town, else he would have posted already

[Theta Alpine]

see the thing is

i know i am not going to survive to the end of the game
so i do not need people to really town read me
i just need to not be scum read until i can figure out the game and get good reads on people before i do get flipped

Do you get voted out early a lot or something?

not necessarily voted out early
but if you look at my signature you will see my statistics
only one game survived to the end

i simply treat the game as if i will be dead sooner or later
it is not alignment indicative for me though if i say so myself
i believe it does make me rather dangerous in the event i roll group scum
it becomes very hard to tell who partners are if the person you are analyzing is expecting to flip sooner or later from the start of the game

but then again i have not played enough games on this account for that to be confirmed

[Theta Alpine]

huh a few votes without a reason expressed
kind of disappointing
was hoping this would be more of a game-advancing wagon

at least alianna expressed a reasoning for their vote
UNVOTE: alianna

also really deltabreedy
you complain about no game-advancing stuff and then do a naked vote
kind of hypocritical
VOTE: deltabreedy

[Theta Alpine]

hu tao had a vote that still seemed to follow random voting stage logic
and also unvoted soon after

doctor drew at least proposed a reason for voting though it is trying to setup a 1v1 without an express reason
i want to see more from them before i start digging into them

you however
like i said you had complained about lack of game advancing content
and then a naked vote just feels hypocritical

[Theta Alpine]

flavor leaf town was just a joke to emphasize how little reads i had

[Theta Alpine]

i will also go ahead and say

pressure votes do not really work on me anyways
like i said i expect to get eliminated or night killed sooner or later so
you can get a claim for me if you put me up to e-1 but
it really is not going to change my behavior otherwise

[Theta Alpine]

and that is quite fair
i cannot really dispute that i am sus

i can just look to see what my wagon stirs up to see if i can catch any especially scummy vibes

[Theta Alpine]

kitty is not especially great looking with posts that are trying to be useful without really doing much earlier
and encouraging my wagon without voting for it for a bit
which
they have a reason for just
hmm

i will think about it
but i do like my current vote still
want to see how people react to that for the time being

[Theta Alpine]

There's the game-advancement.

Kinda weird how your vote is solely on me for a naked vote, but you haven't called out Hu Tao or Dr Drew on the same page.

What was my naked vote? If you're talking about the alianna vote it was a meme vote which I unvoted, which I thought was obvious.

Yeah, they didn't call you out on it. A meme vote on page 6 doesn't push us out of RVS at all, but Theta instead went for an OMGUS vote on me rather than holding to account 2 people who didn't do something on that page to help push us out.

Given that they themselves said that they want to get out of RVS so that they can develop reads, it seems to be a contradiction that they'll go after someone trying to advance the gamestate over someone who on the same page didn't advance it.

I'd encourage more votes on Theta at present.

that
is because i also knew it was still borderline rvs
and thus the meme vote was not alignment indicative
i am not going to push someone for taking an action that is not alignment indicative at that stage of the game
i tend to filter out such actions actually
as they are an inevitability and as mentioned are rarely alignment indicative

[Theta Alpine]

flavor leaf town was just a joke to emphasize how little reads i had

If it's a joke, what's your actual read on them?

pure null right now
they do not have many hard stances which i am starting to get worried about
but i will be able to tell better later on in the game

[Theta Alpine]

it seems to be a contradiction that they'll go after someone trying to advance the gamestate over someone who on the same page didn't advance it.

then let me explain it properly
i voted you for apparent hypocrisy
providing an actual reason for my vote that people can look at
and thus hopefully advancing game state by how people react to it

not advancing game state is much less scummy if scummy at all this early to be quite honest
and while i do not like it
pushing them for not advancing game state i see as futile
and contributing much less then creating direct interactions with someone already engaged in the game

[Theta Alpine]

So at 3 IRL days into Day 1, you were fine with RVS votes? Still defending it almost halfway into D1?

I'm pretty okay with a Theta lim D1 to be honest.

This game feels absurdly slow compared to my previous experience in newbie games - I can scarcely believe we're halfway through D1 and there seems to be a feeling that we're still in RVS.

fine
not really

apathetic
yes

[Theta Alpine]

welcome

we still have a good amount of time in the day
i am comfortable with my current vote though
will look into other people in-depth and do an actual reads list later

[Theta Alpine]

it is also borderline misrep that delta is doing

i am not voting them strictly for having an empty vote on me as they have been saying
i am voting them for the hypocrisy in stating they want to advance game state and then them making an empty vote

[Theta Alpine]

i think team mafia is not helping some people with activity levels

i
also do not fully understand the mew wagon
let me read up on it once i get time to

[Theta Alpine]

right right

prod received

i still like my current vote on delta but
i will read over the mew wagon i suppose and see if i could be convinced to go there if it gets much closer to day end

[Theta Alpine]

i am

not seeing how mew has been scummy much at all
like sure reading something as towny when it should be nai
that is a mistake town can easily make as well though

[Theta Alpine]

i really do not see why mew is scum
i mean i will vote there if it gets down to the wire but
i would prefer delta instead

[Theta Alpine]

i mean knowing flavor leaf he is waiting to hammer

so maybe we should just ask mew to claim right now

[Theta Alpine]

i mean
thus why i would bring up that my behavior would be different in the first place

[Theta Alpine]

two more votes would be a hammer

one more vote would put them at e-1

[Theta Alpine]

yeah i perhaps should have made my request for a claim a bit more visible

i do not trust some of these players not to quick hammer to be quite honest

[Theta Alpine]

I voted mew

Goddamit, how do I keep missing your vote haha

well at least you are consistent in whose votes you are missing track of

[Theta Alpine]

that
is a question yeah
if the purpose is to get them to claim then uh
we do need to keep them at around e-2 or e-1
though i would prefer e-2 right now

[Theta Alpine]

we did not get out of random voting stage for a while
and actually yeah we are at less then 24 hours and the closest we are at is e-3
so
fine

VOTE: mewtaph e-2

[Theta Alpine]

that

see that is why i wanted mew at e-2 not e-1

[Theta Alpine]

enchant what was with your voting back and forth

[Theta Alpine]

enchant what was with your voting back and forth

i forgot

that
okay

i am just going to die internally and hope this flips red
or
whatever werewolves flip as

[Theta Alpine]

is it really so hard to understand why there would be a preferred order to claiming

i am present but as someone with comprehension of intent i will wait to claim until the other three claim their actions

having said that
this really has not improved in my eyes at all so until what info flavor leaf ends up uncovering is revealed
VOTE: deltabreedy
and by not improved i mean
wow
that was just

okay quick lesson
town elimination in early game is better then no elimination in nearly all situations
night kill is somewhat incriminating but i could also see it in a world where delta is being set up for a mislim
however
with deltas first post this day in consideration
either you do not have any experience with gambits or
well
trying a bit too hard to steer things
not necessarily scummy to do so but along with everything else i have noticed

[Theta Alpine]

i should be able to do a proper reads list later once i do a full read through though
i may wait until flavor leafs info has been fully unveiled
along with any other info that gets revealed at that time

[Theta Alpine]

Firstly, what on earth was that Mew wagon - can someone explain that for me?

I don't recall there being much anti-Mew sentiment so for them to just get so suddenly offed was pretty awful. I'd wager good money that scum is on the wagon there.

Second - I think doing what Flavour suggested is daft. I don't buy it.

mew wagon was at first just
i do not fully understand why it happened actually
so i cannot really explain how it started

as for why they got eliminated though
really it is as simple as
they were the easiest to get to elimination at day end

also
what flavor leaf is doing right now is almost always more harmful to scum then it is to town
i will not however
explain why until it has run its course
as to do so would be to tell scum the proper way to play in this situation

[Theta Alpine]

what flavor leaf is doing right now is almost always more harmful to scum then it is to town

I know what FL doing and it's harmful for town.

well
i will explain my reasons for saying it is more harmful to scum once everyone has claimed and flavor leaf reveals their info
and then we can argue about it then

[Theta Alpine]

It's not really gonna help if everyone notice but "oh well i won't speak why" publically for no reason.

Literally lol.

scum are not always competent

and for a brief glimpse but not the whole picture
the worst case scenario if flavor leaf is town telling the truth is one scum found with two town lost
this claiming process helps reduce the odds of us getting that worst case scenario

and anyways i do plan on revealing what i know at the end anyways
i am very conveniently at the end of the claiming order now

[Theta Alpine]

to be fair that part of claiming is not always as town-beneficial
it can be if flavor has good reads but if not uh

[Theta Alpine]

It's not really gonna help if everyone notice but "oh well i won't speak why" publically for no reason.

Literally lol.

scum are not always competent

and for a brief glimpse but not the whole picture
the worst case scenario if flavor leaf is town telling the truth is one scum found with two town lost
this claiming process helps reduce the odds of us getting that worst case scenario

and anyways i do plan on revealing what i know at the end anyways
i am very conveniently at the end of the claiming order now

Worst case scenario is actually that scum have a ninja, both Bulge visitors are town, and we've just told the scum who all the PRs are.
I don't know the first thing about mini normals despite having recently modded one, but if there's a watcher/tracker-finder and an implied tracker (or is tracker-finder with no tracker a thing?), there's probably something to counter that.

wait is ninja normal valid

oh it is
huh
that is
very important to know actually and affects things a bit
hmm i will have to think now

[Theta Alpine]

hmm very interesting
i do have to say i was not going to claim in this situation so here we are

flavor leaf
mind telling us all whether it was me / enchant / someone else who made the other action

[Theta Alpine]

flippy being the other person to do it does make it quite interesting at first
let me check something though

but yes
i did not target the bulge last night

[Theta Alpine]

hmm yes

flippy should be being replaced right now if they did not pm the moderator at some point during the night
though
they also should have posted in the first 24 hours of the day starting and did not
so
hmm

[Theta Alpine]

oh good i do not have to make arguments that border on out of game info about flippy then nice

not really sure what to think about enchant then hmm
they are either town or scum that lied
and i mean
i was going to test you myself but at least i did it without lying about an action

p-edit
yeah actually this looks good enough for me
enchant seems aware enough to have recognized the possibility of a gambit
in which case if you set yourself up like that as town then uh
why

VOTE: enchant

i should probably edit this post to remove the hedging on enchant i was doing before checking the sequence of posts again but eh

also delta if you do read this
the votes on you are just signs that you are doing something wrong
not necessarily that you are scum
not every vote is with the intention of a lim
otherwise random voting stage would not make sense

p-edit 2

hmm yes

flippy should be being replaced right now if they did not pm the moderator at some point during the night
though
they also should have posted in the first 24 hours of the day starting and did not
so
hmm

Just to clarify: players that answer to night prods by pm but still run afoul of rule 9 will not be forcibly replaced

immediately

, rather I'll give them some leniency and send them a reminder to go post hastily, not unlike a prod. I will replace them if they still don't do so during this grace period.

yeah i realized a significant possibility of that
and really did not want to go on an argument along those lines but fortunately i do not actually need to continue along that line so

[Theta Alpine]

yeah i probably should not have pulled my own check after i saw that
still wanted to check though

actually pretty sure scum you would have played it safe anyways with what i did so
yeah probably should have just played along normally then

[Theta Alpine]

enchant did a very bad play if they thought the tracker claim was fake
flavor crumbed that enchant was negative right after they made their claim even which validates that flavor has some sort of investigative ability

kind of open and shut
the gambit i did for testing flavor is a much more safe way to test a claim like that

but really
if you do not think a claim like that is true just
claim no action or do not claim
this applies to both town and scum unfortunately so there you go scum that is what to do in the future if you did not already know

[Theta Alpine]

the only argument for not hammering that i can think of would be to discuss future days and i do not see much point with where we are at right now
i mean i would like to read through the game and get a reads list out before night start but i really doubt i am high on the night kill list right now so lazy endures
reading will be easier if we get a yellow/brown/whatever wolves are flip here anyways

flavor probably town though

[Theta Alpine]

someone please hold me to making a reads list over the night though
like actually

[Theta Alpine]

that

if that is true i really wish you had done a different target

[Theta Alpine]

aaaaaaaaaaa

okay so
who was it that talked about traitors
cause disloyal unstoppable without any actives means
this be a bulletproof traitor game

wow we got lucky with that flip

alianna was the first person to bring it up
though doctor drew started the conversation that led to it

anyways i did a bit of reading cause wow that flip gave me a lot to work with
not as much reading as i wanted to but enough to find some stuff

and
honestly not sure where to put my vote
if we want to go for hunting traitor i think doctor drew + alianna would actually be a prime suspect for traitor + scum
but i do not know if their early interaction on day one is just me misreading things
both slots also interacted weirdly with the enchant wagon
doctor drew kind of sitting on the sidelines and somewhat encouraging it while leaving room to back down
alianna also tried to defend enchants post as a joke


but this feels too easy
so i kind of doubt it is actually the case
there is also a question of if it was 2+traitor or 3+traitor cause if it is three + traitor then uh
no idea who the last person is


i am also tempted to put my vote on delta as well but
mmh i am wondering if i actually just caught out the scum team here

anyways this was all written pre night flip so let me see if that becomes particularly relevatory
oh actually
jailkeeper can claim now
named vanilla town with confirmed existence at this point
i think that just claims to get conf-town status here

and yes i know this is not an actual reads list sorry
but i am indecisive on if i actually have a solve or not

[Theta Alpine]

that

flavor leaf whyyyy
well your gambit worked and we did not have to get into a mislim situation due to you not claiming correctly so

hmm
suppose that night kill should have been expected

[Theta Alpine]

i wanted to see if people agreed with my potential solve first
i will post a proper reads list after i see what people think

[Theta Alpine]

would depend on the player i think

but yeah uh
unless there is some misdirection in play about the roles then
disloyal unstoppable only makes sense and has an effect with a bulletproof traitor

so we have traitor crumbing to look for
and just the enchant wagon in general to look for
and doctor drew and alianna i am seeing in both places as kind of shady
just feels
too easy in a way

[Theta Alpine]

VOTE: enchant in my experience enchant is usually scum

Wut

VOTE: red

Apologies to Red lol

I was on the sidelines a bit because I kinda was believing both FL and Enchant for a bit, then I was busy at work, and next thing you know the elim went through.

Tbf though, it is definitely in my box of tools to open wolf a bit and bring up 3p if I am 3p, but not sure if I could be that brazen and bring up traitor as the traitor.

you did not though
you brought up a scenario and then alianna brought up the word specifically
after that you started using the specific word traitor

which
hmm
aaaaaaa i really do not know about my own solve
i am not usually the best at figuring out people

[Theta Alpine]

and honestly
i will admit i was definitely part of that whole interaction about traitors as well
and specifically with alianna also had a weird start interaction so uh

i was however one of the first people on enchant

[Theta Alpine]

and honestly
i will admit i was definitely part of that whole interaction about traitors as well
and specifically with alianna also had a weird start interaction so uh

i was however one of the first people on enchant

Why are you defending yourself? Delta gave you a smidge of shade, but this doesn't make sense.

*shrugs*

it is a thing that has been on my mind since i saw the association between you and alianna
honestly i need to just read the game again to just look for other possibilities because that is a dangerous hole for me to stay in

[Theta Alpine]

it feels too easy
like
i see it
it makes sense
but i do not feel it

thus why i bring it up without voting or such
want to see what other people think

[Theta Alpine]

i was just about to post a reads list
well let me post it but i would put redff as conf-town unless we get a counterclaim now

[Theta Alpine]

i did some reading again and some vca on the enchant wagon

probably town
hu tao - jump onto the enchant wagon did not feel like bussing
bristep - same as above

town lean
redff - even though they were an early jump onto enchant they still called out flavors choice of target which i find odd
kittytacky - they seem to be a bit too lost to be group scum and no crumbs for traitor i think
okay one potential crumb but i really do not see it as a crumb

null
theta alpine - my traditional place in reads lists i make
flippynips - i honestly do not think they are invested enough to be scum but then again not posting so

scum lean
doctor drew - was in an odd spot for the enchant wagon
kind of playing both sides of it which while not necessarily scummy
combined with potential traitor crumbing that i saw is enough to put them at scum lean
alianna - also in an odd spot where they were off the wagon but voicing support for it kind of
while also leaving open and strongly pushing a possibility for flavor leaf to be wrong
that and the associative with doctor drew just seems to be pointing towards them being grouped and finding each other


probably scum
deltabreedy - out of all the votes on enchant this felt the most like it could be a bus
plus just the rest of their play is just off
they also near immediately started attacking flavor leaf after they announced their result

i do think we are in a 2 scum + 1 traitor remaining situation
i do not feel alianna and doctor drew being scum which
aaaaaa
it makes the most sense thus their placement on this list but
regardless i do think this is scum in any situation at this point
VOTE: deltabreedy

[Theta Alpine]

Hey. Im a jailkeeper. Figured id claim since the enabler died. Not sure how common a cross alignment enabler is. Im vanilla now obviously.

i will be honest i am assuming the jailkeeper is town
why not just have a roleblocker if it was a scum role

[Theta Alpine]

oh the tabs did not render
ack

[Theta Alpine]

Spoiler: fixed the tabs but put it in spoiler so as not to wallpost twice on the same page

i did some reading again and some vca on the enchant wagon

probably town
hu tao - jump onto the enchant wagon did not feel like bussing
bristep - same as above

town lean
redff - even though they were an early jump onto enchant they still called out flavors choice of target which i find odd
kittytacky - they seem to be a bit too lost to be group scum and no crumbs for traitor i think
okay one potential crumb but i really do not see it as a crumb

null
theta alpine - my traditional place in reads lists i make
flippynips - i honestly do not think they are invested enough to be scum but then again not posting so

scum lean
doctor drew - was in an odd spot for the enchant wagon
kind of playing both sides of it which while not necessarily scummy
combined with potential traitor crumbing that i saw is enough to put them at scum lean
alianna - also in an odd spot where they were off the wagon but voicing support for it kind of
while also leaving open and strongly pushing a possibility for flavor leaf to be wrong
that and the associative with doctor drew just seems to be pointing towards them being grouped and finding each other


probably scum
deltabreedy - out of all the votes on enchant this felt the most like it could be a bus
plus just the rest of their play is just off
they also near immediately started attacking flavor leaf after they announced their result

i do think we are in a 2 scum + 1 traitor remaining situation
i do not feel alianna and doctor drew being scum which
aaaaaa
it makes the most sense thus their placement on this list but
regardless i do think this is scum in any situation at this point
VOTE: deltabreedy

[Theta Alpine]

oh yeah
from what i have seen on both jailkeeper enabler and flavor having a role to find two other power roles it looks like
town probably has a lot of power
thus why i think it was a three scum + traitor game

what gives me pause is the fact that we have had two villagers flip
which
indicates we are not in role madness outright

[Theta Alpine]

honestly with red being jailkeeper i am
really not sure who else could be scum together

the one time i actually have a gut read and i feel like it is probably wrong

[Theta Alpine]

Red, are you mod confirmed that you cannot use your ability anymore?

i mean if it was not we would be in a bastard game
we are in fact in a normal

[Theta Alpine]

Red, are you mod confirmed that you cannot use your ability anymore?

i mean if it was not we would be in a bastard game
we are in fact in a normal

I would prefer them to answer the question, not you.

fair enough
just not sure what you are getting at with it

[Theta Alpine]

Red, are you mod confirmed that you cannot use your ability anymore?

Yes.

I jk delta n1

K

I can understand that play.

Unfortunately I believe that all PR's have to be enabled.

as in

there is no normal requirement for all prs to have an enabler
it is not even a requirement for the linked role for an enabler to exist

we do not know enough about the game to know if more enablers exist yet
so why say that

[Theta Alpine]

Damn. Enchant got owned lol

yuppp

unfortunately cause flavor claimed two targets received then there was a reason to claim an action at all
though
really it would only delay things by a day at most in the situation where flavors original claim was true

risky way to catch scum but
it worked this time

[Theta Alpine]

Hey. Im a jailkeeper. Figured id claim since the enabler died. Not sure how common a cross alignment enabler is. Im vanilla now obviously.

I think you shouldn't have outed

they are effectively a named vanilla townie right now
i believe those are roles that claim

[Theta Alpine]

ehh
we force scum to choose between shooting conf-town that also does not have powers or shooting elsewhere and maybe hitting a power-role

i strongly believe that traitor has bulletproof given the role enchant was
and a no kill if we have protective roles would have been confusing
or worse if we had a roleblocker or such

[Theta Alpine]

okay really can you please stop with the misrep delta

i am voting you primarily because of your immediate reactions in response to flavor leafs claim

i do have a reads list
it just was not the first thing i posted today

@Theta - where was the possible traitor crumb from Kitty?

63 is the one that i can sort of see
it really is not strong at all

[Theta Alpine]

hmm

i was seeing delta as group scum not traitor so
UNVOTE: deltabreedy

let me think for a bit and see what i can figure out
my gut is still telling me it is not doctor drew and alianna but i feel like i might have to just ignore my gut here

[Theta Alpine]

ooh lazy is quite useful for someone to have
it means the role stops working when there is only scum left
does mean we would have to take out the traitor first though to know if there are one or two groupscum left

[Theta Alpine]

ack
only 1 scum left yeah
typos ahoy

[Theta Alpine]

only scum left would be conditional not lazy
and only good in multiball

[Theta Alpine]

so
i am trying to figure out
did group scum not bus enchant at all

cause either group scum did not bus or
bristep or hu tao is group scum

[Theta Alpine]

Can someone clarify where the assumption of a traitor has come from?

even before someone revealed that it was confirmed

enchant flipped with disloyal unstoppable and no active non-factional abilities
there is exactly one situation where this makes sense to have
if you will be targeting someone with your factional kill who is the same alignment as you and who has protection

in normals there is only one setup satisfying this without an assumption of purposely targeting a teammate you are aware of
and that is to have a bulletproof traitor

[Theta Alpine]

@Kitty - how exactly does your role work? Enchant was executed D2 and you checked Delta N2, so if it's just them and a traitor, they technically have no one to talk to in the PT. I realize 3 scum + traitor is technically possible, just interested in this scenario. Would you get a positive or negative result on groupscum if they're the last one left, assuming they can't communicate in another way?

I get a guilty if they're not alone in a PT. So sole scum would get an inno even if traitor. So innos are pretty soft. I have a hunch it's 3 scum and tater however.

aaaaaaaaaa
okay so delta is a bit less cleared then i am
though neither of us are really cleared to begin with due to possibility of traitor
and yeah i am also thinking we have two grouped scum and one traitor left so

in that situation
we have three people completely cleared of being group scum and two targets left out of six
along with the potential for the traitor to be in the six instead of being one of me or delta

let me think a bit more
the enchant wagon went up fast
like i said delta was the only vote i thought might be bussing
i am just trying to figure out what i am missing here

[Theta Alpine]

kitty changed their play in regards to the information they claimed to have received before enchants flip
so i think that claim is truthful and i do not see traffic analyst as being a potential scum role

so that leaves us with five targets left with assumed two group scum within them
if there is only one group scum + traitor left then we can afford to figure that out later
plus out of the semi-confirmed people i think it should be fairly obvious that me and delta are only same alignment if we are both town

so we have 2 out of 5 or 3 out of 5 if we have two group scum left depending on if me or delta is a traitor
the absolute worst case scenario is if i was traitor and delta was final group scum but assuming we are not in that situation and that all claims so far are truthful there is at least one scum within bristep | flippy | hu tao | alianna | doctor drew

and at this point it is just a question of
did scum bus or not
cause that narrows things down further

[Theta Alpine]

claiming jk in that situation is
a really iffy move if scum and not jailkeeper
cause it begs for a jailkeeper to cc

unfortunately red is no longer the most likely night kill so we will not get to see what happens there yet

[Theta Alpine]

VOTE: hutao i dont like his reaction to my claim today

Why? You could have waited until you were going to be voted out and then claim

jailkeeper in this situation of a flipped scum jailkeeper enabler effectively becomes a named townie whose existence is known

and the best play for such is to claim

VOTE: hutao i dont like his reaction to my claim today

Why? You could have waited until you were going to be voted out and then claim

They're functionally vanilla now, though, so not claiming really just wastes time if they get wagoned.

Yeah but that gives scum a free night kill. Instead of having to potentially kill a traitor

it is also a kill that is not on a power role
plus if we have a traitor then i am 99% sure they are bulletproof due to the reason i saw that there was a traitor in the first place
enchant was disloyal unstoppable

[Theta Alpine]

Personally I don't like claiming pr until I HAVE to. But I guess that could just be me

they are not a power role anymore
an enabler for them died
so now they are a named townie

[Theta Alpine]

delta only if they are the only groupscum left

[Theta Alpine]

alianna is also in this group

alright let me think

[Theta Alpine]

i have been trying to decide if we just
mass claim here

[Theta Alpine]

scum having unstoppable suggests town has a protective role or a roleblocker
there was jailkeeper though which got disabled when enchant died so
that might already be all solved

flavor leaf was a tracker finder and finder finder
though i do not know if either of those would be on scum or town

[Theta Alpine]

Funny how I was a top Town read yesterday and now I am scum read by someone for voting scum

really it is kind of just
were scum trying to save enchant from dying
in which case i would think it is doctor drew and alianna

or were scum just bussing cause enchant was caught
in which case i think it would actually be you and bristep together

[Theta Alpine]

496

518

there was not much posts either way and you were always straddling the line of whether you were thinking enchants claim was a joke and supporting flavor leaf as being correct

[Theta Alpine]

alright

i am actually going to go with my gut here instead of the logic i used to make my reads list
and actually it could just be a jumbled mess of any of the remaining five

i am
going to assume actually that scum bussed enchant after it became obvious there was no saving them
and people are already voting hu tao so

VOTE: hu tao

[Theta Alpine]

we have three days so no rush on hammering

and uh
you are at e-1 hu
a claim would be a good idea

[Theta Alpine]

Not keen on a mass claim as the tracker should only nk if they have pertinent info, same with the watcher. If the traitor is bulletproof as speculated then right now they’re still unknown to scum and we may just give them open targets to pick off and ensure they keep getting the right night target.

Alliana, Drew and Flippy are the choices, I realise that I can be put in that group for everyone else but from my perspective it’s one of those 3.

Looking at the voting pattern yesterday I’m leaning towards Flippy. Hu voted them possibly to distance since the wagon on Hu was growing, while Flippy sat on Alianna behind Drew actively calling out they were just sheeping him - possible attempt to pocket him.

nice idea in theory
but in practice scum only has one more night kill they need to do before it is lim or lose
and that night kill will just be red

so no
it is mass claim time i think

[Theta Alpine]

hmmm

i am vanilla
i do not have any passive or active abilities

traitor i believe would count as an informed
group werewolves themselves would be informed as a factional trait not a personal one
but i think alianna might be cleared anyways

something still does not add up though
will wait for everyone else to claim and see

[Theta Alpine]

Not sure if it’s beneficial to reveal my info yet, especially if we’re massclaiming.

wait until everyone has claimed yeah
see if someone slips up
that would make our job much easier

[Theta Alpine]

i kind of need them to claim though cause uh

there is something wrong right now and depending on what flippy claims that will change my approach to solving the game

[Theta Alpine]

with the information currently available

no that is not what i would suggest
but like i said i am really waiting for flippy to claim cause
aaaaaa i cannot really say more then just that something is currently wrong with the claims so far
i am not sure if flippy will resolve it or not

[Theta Alpine]

but to put things in perspective

if everyone except scum have claimed truthfully so far
then flippy is town
but i need flippy to claim and then i can confirm this

[Theta Alpine]

hmmm okay then someone has not claimed their full role including modifiers

claim results then for both flippy and alianna and whoever did not fully claim their full role uh
please do

[Theta Alpine]

kitty has told us that there is a lazy modifier in play
which is a town modifier pretty much all of the time

none of the claims or flips have this
so someone did not tell the full truth about their role and oddly enough it was probably town that did it

i can actually probably assume who has it though at this point
and even though it would not be flippy i still think flippy is not the correct lim today
i think bristep is the correct elimination for today

[Theta Alpine]

flippy targeted doc drew both night one and two
they did not target flavor leaf night one
they saw drew target flavor leaf

[Theta Alpine]

at the moment from a game setup stance i believe the game is solved if the remaining wolves are bristep with delta or me as traitor
though i would have to say it is delta
though really who the traitor is does not matter if we get the last main wolf anyways

flippy being a tracker fills in the missing tracker from flavor leaf
drew i believe has the lazy role and did not mention it
last main wolf - bristep - i would guess is a tracker enabler and probably something else as well

leaving each of towns power roles either disableable or useless against a specific scum member

[Theta Alpine]

in any situation

at this point i think the game is won for town if we lim through bristep and flippy in any order

i believe that bristep is actually the last wolf here so i would start there
but either way
i think town actually has it solved here

i will wait for alianna to claim their actions before voting though

i am unsure on whether the last main wolf is more likely to be tracker enabler or finder enabler but eh i will find out once the game is over

also
you going on enchant and hu tao is a bold move if scum
but not something i could not see happening
enchant was already lost when you voted them
hu tao i believe was an early bus to create distance
and then ended up being the lim anyways

[Theta Alpine]

VOTE: bristep

well there we go
it was a bold play i will say that

[Theta Alpine]

with my understanding of the game state so far and my prediction for the full setup
i believe all of the claims to be more or less accurate and from town except for the current vanilla claims
the only non-vanilla claim that i have any doubt about is doctor drew
i believe they failed to claim that they have the lazy modifier as in my prediction for the full setup they should have it

with that in mind
me and delta are confirmed not group scum by kitty so one of us would have to be the traitor
and that would leave bristep to be the last group scum


if i am wrong about the full setup - that is to say if bristep does not flip scum - but correct that doctor drew has the lazy modifier as i believe in any case that they are the one that has that
then we should be looking between flippy | alianna | red for the final group scum

and in which case i would probably say it is flippy actually being a scum tracker as this creates the situation of both doctor drew and flavor leaf having two different finding abilities and more specifically
one for finding a town player and one for finding a scum player

anyways people can look over this and tell me what they think

[Theta Alpine]

Stupid question about traitors, they know who scum is but scum don't know who the traitors are, correct?

in a normal game yes this is correct
unless one of the scum is also an informed role with the traitors identity though i do not know if that would be legal in normal games

[Theta Alpine]

they got disabled when the watcher-enabler died

if i am correct at least
every town power role either had an enabler / limited number of shots / some other method of disabling its usefulness at some point before the game ended

red and alianna each having a scum enabler

flavor leaf and flippy only having two shots on each of their abilities

kitty losing effectiveness once there was only one group scum left and also just not being able to find the traitor in general
and you i believe having the lazy modifier and thus losing effectiveness when only one scum was left

[Theta Alpine]

i am honestly not sure anyone fake claimed a power role
someone obviously did not claim their full role but that person was almost certainly town so

my current top two game spec theories have either bristep being final group scum
or flippy being scum tracker - probably without limited shots but still

it is possible that one of red or alianna did a very bold move and claimed jailkeeper or watcher with heavy risk for a counterclaim but
i kind of doubt it and honestly i am fine with giving them the win for doing that in that case

really we are arguing for who the top two picks for group scum are cause that is the number of chances we get unless we somehow hit traitor in the process
i think it is bristep or flippy in that order
and i have not seen anyone except bristep argue otherwise except for swapping the order around

[Theta Alpine]

alianna softed one of her results at the very least when she mentioned that the watcher-enabler ninja was designed to troll her
hinting that she did get trolled and targeted flavor leaf night 2

i have not looked to see if she softed her night 1 target though-
wait what was aliannas reaction during day 2 during the whole flavor leaf thing cause that would have been a good time to soft that result and i remember alianna responding to flavor leafs claim of targeting you
let me look

[Theta Alpine]

actually

i fully believe alianna now
odd that they chose not to counter claim flavor leaf but their stance against flavor that i noticed when i had my suspicions about alianna day 3 make sense now

so it is between red | flippy | bristep if i am correct that doctor drew has the lazy modifier

[Theta Alpine]

like i only just realized that flavor leaf claimed watcher and alianna has also claimed watcher
that interaction really should have clued me in on her being town even if both of my other theories are wrong
though it actually makes sense there was not a counter claim since alianna also saw the other action flavor leaf preformed

anyways yeah
town has at worst a two out of three deal i think

based on play i would say go flippy then bristep
based on my mech spec i would say bristep then flippy
either way i think we just win unless red pulled a very bold move as scum


but really scum had both unstoppable and a jailkeeper enabler and the only protective or roleblocker claimed is jailkeeper so unless there is serious bait then
it is really just bristep and flippy unless doctor drew does not actually have the lazy modifier

[Theta Alpine]

also realizing now that enchant had to claim when flavor leaf claimed watcher the way he did

cause hu tao was a watcher-enabler and ninja
scum basically knew that town had a watcher somewhere

so oof that gambit put them in a really bad spot

[Theta Alpine]

so let me boil it down to this

right now we have to make a pool of two players that has the group scum in it and if we do that successfully we win guaranteed
we have five choices but
flippy is the scummiest player right now so they just go into that pool regardless
doctor drew is the only claimed pr that makes sense to even have the lazy modifier and thus is almost certainly town
alianna had town interactions in regards to their role that make me think they were not scum doing a very bold gambit

that leaves two players for the last slot in the pool
red or bristep
both of them would have had to pull a very bold move if they were scum
but bristep makes the most sense to me as scum
group scum had every reason to believe enchant was caught on day 2 and thus probably both hopped onto the wagon
and then day 3 it was likely obvious that one of them would get caught due to well
the argument that scum probably bussed enchant was going to come up sooner or later
though it came up first when i brought up the possibility of there being a situation where neither scum bussed
that situation is the only part that currently gives me pause about bristep and flippy being the winning lims

[Theta Alpine]

i mean
saying that it would probably make sense to elim flippy today

but i honestly just do not think they are scum they just are the scumiest claimed pr
i fully believe the last group scum is bristep

[Theta Alpine]

that is e-1 though yeah
just waiting for someone else to show up and hammer

in the unlikely event we have a tomorrow whoever has lazy should claim and then you all can figure out who among the rest is the last group scum

i am hopeful i actually get another game where i survive to the end though so

[Theta Alpine]

i mean if i am correct we have to wait for flippy or red to show up

[Theta Alpine]

i mean unless bristep feels like self-hammering but
if i am correct about the game then neither bristep or delta will be the hammer since the traitor would also be game throwing to vote the last group scum in this state

unfortunately that means we have to wait for either red or flippy to show up and vote

[Theta Alpine]

interesting

well uh
there goes the other choice of wagon i was ever going to consider for today
doctor drew can you claim if you have the lazy modifier or not now just to get that off of my mind

[Theta Alpine]

aaaaaaaaaa

okay that is uh
who has the lazy modifier then

we have two choices though
go for traitor or go for group scum
killing traitor just gets us to a 3p lilo anyways though so

flippy seems like the obvious pick but
let me think

[Theta Alpine]

well now i get to figure out

what are the chances of it being lazy modifier on scum
not likely i do not think

so uh
great

let me look at what has been claimed again and see what i can figure out

[Theta Alpine]

we are very much in lilo as well

so a town vote on town and both the group scum and the traitor could vote and end it

but luckily that requires coordination without the benefit of a pt

[Theta Alpine]

i could make a very dangerous pair of assumptions right now

assuming that flippy being lazy means they are town
and assuming that the traitor would not have voted their partner yesterday
then i know alianna must be scum because delta voted doctor drew yesterday

i do not know if i like that pair of assumptions though

[Theta Alpine]

hmmmm

i think my current assumptions about this game are wrong

the kill on red is the most confusing to me
as that was originally the only other option i had for elimination today
however it does hint that whoever is left as group scum is either not an enabler
or that it is doctor drew being final group scum

i am inclined to believe it is the former

and now i am starting to get worried i was actually right on day three about doctor drew and alianna being the group scum and traitor pairing
logically alianna is the best pick in case it is alianna and delta as the group scum and traitor pairing

honestly though i am starting to wonder if i have just been tunneled on delta for too long and they are in fact just vanilla town
ughhhh
flippy and delta what do you two think

actually maybe i should do some vca

[Theta Alpine]

i think

i think i just realized why red was the kill

i do not think the final group scum knows who the traitor is at this point

[Theta Alpine]

i think

i think i was right on day three and it is doctor drew and alianna as group scum and traitor

but
i think when i originally proposed that
the way i did it and did not commit or even vote alianna and instead ran up deltabreedy made scum think i was the traitor
because if i was the traitor i certainly would not want alianna to get voted up and proven to not be the traitor

and i think especially with how i sort of took control of the game after hu tao did end up getting elimd and then lined up bristep and flippy as the next two elims might have helped with a suspicion of me being the traitor
plus then yesterday with me assigning doctor drew as effectively lock town without ever actually asking directly if they had the lazy modifier

and finally
doctor drew i believe did not accurately claim their role
as their role would make the most sense as being the scum parallel to flavor leaf and thus instead of enabler finder they probably have something else

alianna did not counter claim flavor leaf cause counter claiming watcher into a town watcher would just be
a bad idea for a traitor even if they are actually a watcher which
i believe might actually be the case with bristep being kind of correct about one of the enabler and power role combos being a red herring

but really
i think doctor drew is the correct elim for today
alianna i believe is the traitor and would just put us in a three person lilo again tomorrow
even if i can see situations where alianna is the final group scum and delta is the traitor instead

[Theta Alpine]

enchant and hu tao did the first two kills i think
since uh
unstoppable and ninja respectively

i think dd was for finding kitty before they could reveal
and maybe something else just not sure what else dd would have

[Theta Alpine]

Idk man check the VC

I am lazy

Theta, is this why you thought Drew had the modifier?

partially
but it was more that i did not think that flippy would be both lazy and two shot

[Theta Alpine]

@Theta

Alianna lim?

i am not opposed to it at the moment but i would prefer drew i think right now
but i am still thinking and double guessing myself

[Theta Alpine]

i believe your claim is partially true
but i think you are something else instead of an enabler finder

[Theta Alpine]

alright then

it is between alianna and doctor drew today

me and delta are confirmed not to be group scum
and if the mod put in lazy on scum then i am just going to have to be fine with losing to that

my current suspicion is that it does not matter which one we do and both drew and alianna are in fact scum
delta having a push on alianna today after a push on doctor drew yesterday is worrying me a lot
but occams razor at this point suggests delta is just town that i have been hard tunneled on most of the game

[Theta Alpine]

i am currently suspecting doctor drew of being group scum since they were the one that seemed to be testing to see if i was a traitor or not on day three
but aaaaaa i keep second guessing myself

[Theta Alpine]

this is very potentially the last day we have so uh

[Theta Alpine]

i think
i think drew might be the best elim
i do not think scum have lazy
i am unsure if scum would have both watcher and watcher-enabler

but i also can see alianna being a good elim
i am in indecision hell right now

[Theta Alpine]

alright then

between drew and alianna
i think i will just prefer drew over alianna
i continue to believe that flippy having lazy means they are just town outright

too much paranoia and aaaaaa though wow
but i think i am fine with this current stance now

so what does everyone else think
doctor drew lim or anyone want to propose something else

[Theta Alpine]

alright then

i am going to take that as confirmation that alianna and doctor drew are scum together

VOTE: doctor drew

i cannot believe that lazy would ever make sense on scum
flippy i think is just mislim bait
not actually scum

[Theta Alpine]

i assume flippy will vote one of doctor drew or alianna and i will switch over to alianna if i need to but

delta
up to you

i have made my argument
doctor drew and alianna have made theirs

up to you to choose

[Theta Alpine]

we lose if we do not elim scum today

[Theta Alpine]

scum will have majority if we either no elim or lim town

[Theta Alpine]

The fact that there's no hammer suggests to me that Theta isn't scum. I know I'm not and the same logic that clears Theta also clears myself.

My issue is figuring out if Emperor is a traitor. I don't like that both Alianna and Drew are doing the same things. Is there a world in which Alianna and Drew are the traitor & groupscum?

i mean i made the argument that it was the two of them back on day 3
also i do not think you are traitor at this point and flippy having lazy makes them town

[Theta Alpine]

lazy as a modifier just
does not ever go on scum

flippy is low hanging fruit yes
mislim bait
much like me and delta were as well

[Theta Alpine]

between doctor drew and alianna i see doctor drew as more scummy then i see alianna
thus why i would prefer to elim there

also
because both me and delta are not group scum and also neither of us hammered emperor flippynips
either alianna and doctor drew are the same alignment
or the group scum is one of those two and flippy is a traitor

in a world where one of me or delta is the traitor then flippy is group scum sure
i just
do not think we are in that world

it legitimately is just doctor drew and alianna here

[Theta Alpine]

Part of me wants to wait for Alianna

Part of me thinks that a 'case' coming from nowhere 2 days since daybreak just as the talking in-game reaches a crescendo feels a bit... eh, especially given that the Emperor wagon has stalled at E-1

scum has to convince one of us to vote another town person in order to win
i mean that or stall it out to a no elim which is also a loss for town right now

[Theta Alpine]

i believe scum now knows who their traitor is
so this is just lilo
traitor and group scum versus two town is an automatic win for scum

[Theta Alpine]

there is no reason for scum to have lazy
i have fully accepted losing the game if it is flippy scum
they are mislim bait
not actually scum

[Theta Alpine]

I was trying to die when it wasn’t going to cost town but it’s fine

you could just
vote doctor drew and let delta decide instead of giving up

[Theta Alpine]

also i am vanilla
no active or passive abilities

[Theta Alpine]

Doc feels wrong though

then you can vote alianna and i will switch over
it is pretty obviously both of them together for me at least

[Theta Alpine]

like really flippy

kitty revealed that me and delta cannot be group scum
so by that logic one of drew or alianna must be group scum to you

pick one and i will follow you onto them
and then delta gets to decide between them and you

if you do not vote in lilo then you just lose regardless of alignment

[Theta Alpine]

alright delta
your pick

VOTE: alianna

[Theta Alpine]

i have had my case on drew and alianna since the start of day three

i have made my arguments for why they are scum together
and really i am more focused on my case on them as scum then proving flippy as town cause flippy is self admittedly fine with getting elimed

i am
really regretting not going with flippy elim yesterday though

[Theta Alpine]

doctor drew and alianna are the two that crumbed traitor to each other

my only similar interaction was also with doctor drew


p-edit
i would so much rather have red or bristep today then flippy in retrospect of flippy being mislim bait

also
my lock town status was on drew yesterday when i was assuming they had the lazy modifier
so that at least is consistent

[Theta Alpine]

I just don't get why, with no votes being aimed at them, Emperor would go on a whole AtE pathway if they were town.

flippy i think is kind of like me
they plan on getting elimed before the end of the game as town

[Theta Alpine]

the only person that i think is lying about their role right now is doctor drew
and even then only partially
i do not think they are an enabler finder

[Theta Alpine]

well
and i think alianna is the traitor but

[Theta Alpine]

i think they are a watcher
and yes that means they are disabled by the watcher-enabler dying

but i think they are a traitor as well
just kind of makes sense mechanically

i think flippy being lazy and 2 shot is a result of review
they were always going to be lazy
review said that would still be too powerful so
two shots as well

that is
answers to the questions that have been directed my way i think

[Theta Alpine]

well
and i think alianna is the traitor but

Literally zero chance of this.

i mean from my perspective it has to be you or alianna and i think it is alianna

[Theta Alpine]

i think they are a watcher
and yes that means they are disabled by the watcher-enabler dying

but i think they are a traitor as well
just kind of makes sense mechanically

i think flippy being lazy and 2 shot is a result of review
they were always going to be lazy
review said that would still be too powerful so
two shots as well

that is
answers to the questions that have been directed my way i think

You are seriously just trying to justify the reads even you don't believe.

Mech speak as a defense of Flippy now?

i even said yesterday it would be smarter to elim flippy then and then move to bristep or whoever we deemed was final group scum today if the game continued
i was fully expecting to go in and elim flippy

the only reason i did not elim flippy today is because i just
legitimately do not see any reason lazy would be included on scum
in a traitor game especially

and also my assumption of you having lazy was what was keeping me from suspecting you yesterday

[Theta Alpine]

on my phone so i will do a post tag instead

52
and to a lesser extent the self vote later on could potentially be another signal but that i do not like as much

alianna and drew also did the weird sort of defense of enchant on day 2

[Theta Alpine]

there is also the point of
existence of lazy was included in the information kitty had
i think to make flippys role more useful and serve as a conf for one person after one of our more powerful investigatives revealed and would get subsequently killed

[Theta Alpine]

989 and 990 are the two i was talking about

947 was with the assumption that flippy had lazy
then they did not claim it and i switched to conf towning drew for an assumption that they then had lazy

[Theta Alpine]

and in the very back of my mind is the faint possibility that it might be flippy traitor with drew group scum

which would be hilarious but like
that is the only other situation we could be in for me

[Theta Alpine]

well great now i am thinking about it and it would explain flippys defeatism earlier

unless that was just them wanting to get elimd not realizing it was lilo


ughhh why can we not just have a drew vote instead then it would not matter as much

[Theta Alpine]

I simultaneously love and hate being given the hammer at the death.

I actually did a vote for Emperor earlier which was interrupted by a P-edit.

Nothing is moving me from that at present. The AtE over anything else today and then Theta explaining it away for them just swayed it for me. Had yous left it I may well have simply voted for Aliana but it all just stinks. I've spent some time now trying to unwrap this thread ball of claims and results and actions and I think it's more likely for Emp to be scum than not.

I haven't quite figured out the claims. Does a lazy scum tracker make sense?

as much sense as it does in any content
that is to say little at all
lazy is almost always town exclusive

[Theta Alpine]

the only thing giving me a tiny bit of doubt is that the presence of the lazy modifier was informed

meaning it could be a red herring

but i do not think that is the case

[Theta Alpine]

i think it is more likely that one of the enablers was a red herring then for the lazy modifier to be a red herring

[Theta Alpine]

well great now i am thinking about it and it would explain flippys defeatism earlier

unless that was just them wanting to get elimd not realizing it was lilo


ughhh why can we not just have a drew vote instead then it would not matter as much

What, do you think I wouldn't be pushing flippy so hard if Drew was the counterwagon?

cause drew is scum in either situation
really i am just a little confused why flippy wanted you over doctor drew

[Theta Alpine]

now i can only hope that flippy was traitor

[Theta Alpine]

i am town

[Theta Alpine]

probably get to add endgamed to my list of town deaths though

[Theta Alpine]

i am not trolling

alianna are you trolling

[Theta Alpine]

I mean, flippy's pretty obviously not my traitor after they were okay with me at E-1. So the game's solved.

yeah it kind of just is doctor drew if flippy flips traitor

it would explain why they ignored my explanation for why drew would be the preferred elim

[Theta Alpine]

lazy on traitor


lazy on traitor


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Theta Alpine]

well okay then

i would have figured it out the next day on an alianna flip but

wow
that is
not what i was expecting
at all

[Theta Alpine]

lazy on traitor


lazy on traitor


aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I didn't know that was even possible.

i also did not

well then

[Theta Alpine]

No one even considered that all there was left was the traitor.

traitor is supposed to get endgamed if all the group scum are alive

i
i never thought about what would happen if lazy was on traitor

though maybe if i had been given a few more hours to think about the possibility of flippy being traitor i would have realized that was possible
maybe

probably not to be honest but

[Theta Alpine]

Yeah everyone kept saying group scum and traitor left so I was just like

yeahhh

unfortunately for you even if there was an alianna flip
the fact the game was still going afterwards would reveal there was only one scum left

and at that point the relationship between traitor and lazy might get figured out

[Theta Alpine]

I do genuinely think that AtE at the end was what threw me off completely - would have been funny to hit 3p Lim or lose, 100% you'd have killed off whichever of Drewliana was left and Theta and I would have been sat there like 'Guh?'

i admittedly would likely have sooner realized that you were not confirmed by the traffic analyst then realize that lazy and traitor would work that way

but
i probably would have been looking for any way a single traitor would not be endgamed in a normal

i am just not sure if i would have figured it out or not

[Theta Alpine]

honestly i should probably put a warning in my sig that most of my ideas about game state are usually wrong

[Theta Alpine]

but hey at least i was starting to get suspicious of flippy right at the end there

[Theta Alpine]

ooh

with doctor drew would have been

not sure what i would have done there to be honest

[Theta Alpine]

pfft

yeah fair enough

hey i know i can control the town to an extent if i need to now

i just uh
am probably not the best person to do it

and also wow that was a stressful last day
even if it was not actually lilo

alianna you were starting to convince me that you were town even with me in a position where it did not make sense for you to be town
so good job

[Theta Alpine]

i legitimately was considering if maybe kittys info was about a single player that was both traitor and lazy at the end there

i just

did not stop to consider how lazy and traitor work together

[Theta Alpine]

it makes sense in hindsight yeah

i was only ever thinking lazy on the tracker part even if flippy was traitor

the thought that lazy and traitor could be combined was
completely out of my thought process

[Theta Alpine]

yup

this was a good game even if i was completely wrong in my reads for most of it

i mean hey my gut read on drew and alianna on day three was good at least

[Theta Alpine]

now if only i had kept with that gut read

[Theta Alpine]

oh hey wolves thought i was traitor for a bit
that would have been more useful if this was a four person scum team but

[Theta Alpine]

Enchant didn't make the kill by the way, I did as ninja. So he claimed he visited the night kill for no reason.... and we basically lost because of it

wait


wait really

that

aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Theta Alpine]

i mean we were in a good position even for that situation but

then again we got wolf elims on both day 2 and 3 which
i think that made it seem too easy for just 2 wolves 1 traitor

plus the fact the game continued made us think that there was another group scum