Micro 1080: Brass and Shrapnel - Game Over!
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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ok 179 is a pretty bad postIt's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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T3 He/himSurvivorHe/him
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I like this interaction between Merlyn and Jason, I see where both of them are coming from and while I do agree with Jason I liked the way Merlyn backed off and they way that Jason engaged with Merlyn.In post 160, Merlyn wrote: Okay. I'm going to drop this for now bc I sense in you the ability to argue for pages over it, and I don't think what you said is strong enough to go full blown tunnel on you over it.-
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SirCakez he/himIs A Liehe/him
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Brian Skies - "I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup."
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Get to know a Cakez!-
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T3 He/himSurvivorHe/him
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Framing this interaction as Merlyn being 'pressured' is disingenuous. Also, why can't town stop their reasoning if they realize they are wrong? What does scum have to gain from defending a post that is clearly wrong?In post 161, GrandpaSpino wrote:
Classic scum move.In post 160, Merlyn wrote: Okay. I'm going to drop this for now bc I sense in you the ability to argue for pages over it, and I don't think what you said is strong enough to go full blown tunnel on you over it.
Gets pressured and gets called out on it and then stops the reasoning.
See, I would have agreed with you, if you had this realized before I called you out but you are only doing this because you don't want to argue for pages over it. [which would have never happened -- I did not even wanna engage in an irrelevant convo about something that wasn't true]. That's why I tested you
im like 87% sure this is scum now.
VOTE: Merlyn-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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honestly not feeling this as strongly but the quick-fire reads just felt like lukewarm/safe takesIn post 223, JasonWazza wrote:
I'm sorry i'm confused, what post(/s) specifically gives you this feeling?In post 219, Skygazer wrote: they give an aura of solving without like actual solvinghemloreplacement queue-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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Not liking something_smart that much here either right now.
I'll probably be getting more into this game soon but not tonight because I have to give a final exam.hemloreplacement queue-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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what would be an unsafe take to make at this point in the game?In post 229, Skygazer wrote: honestly not feeling this as strongly but the quick-fire reads just felt like lukewarm/safe takesIt's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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yall aren't really doing much to inspire me to open my mouth more. maybe on my next post someone can give me a nice sticker and like a "good job" or somethinghemloreplacement queue-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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I wasn't trying to simply shoot down your read, though if it was that easily shot down, it's probably better that it was.
Can't speak for other people, but if I'm pushing back on a read, it's almost always because I want to generate more discussion on it and analyze more in-depth, and not because I want you to shut up.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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i was (mostly) joking but i have been in somewhat of a funk i'm trying to get out ofhemloreplacement queue-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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I understand that sentiment.
I'm not sure the game is quite far enough along for it yet but if you still feel that later in the day we could try to jam about reads and see if we can come up with anything interesting. When I'm feeling out of it what I usually want is for someone to engage me in good faith on specific topics and try to get a discussion going.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Skygazer anyFor My Next Guestany
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That is to say: it is a me problem and I shouldn't be making it a problem for anyone else to dance around
pedit: sounds good!! tyhemloreplacement queue-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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If you want something to engage with, I'd be interested to hear more thoughts on 179. bianco (I think?) already called it out as being weird, after seeing his post I agree with him, but I have a pretty hard time reading new players so I can't say I'm super confident in it.
It's a little hard for me to place exactly what I don't like about it (and I will not stoop to buzzwords such as "well poisoning"), but I think it's the double accusation of motivated reasoning. Motivated reasoning is a thing that happens all the time but it's obviously much more likely to come from scum, who need to generate arguments to fit the reads that are strategic for them, so even putting aside the fact that people may not recognize it in themselves, people are going to be very unlikely to admit to it.
So bianco is right. For someone who supposedly doesn't scumread GS, what purpose do those questions serve? GMo is never going to answer "actually yes, I just scanned the game looking for an excuse to scumread you instead of making a fair analysis". And they're not really solving-minded, or they'd be directed at others ("hey, does anyone else think GMo's meta scan was bullshit?") So it just kinda reads like a deflection, a knee-jerk attempt to attack the credibility of someone accusing you instead of actually solving them.
And in the same vein, Jason's 181 was perfectly timed, because Merlyn had left it kind of ambiguous and knowing the answer to that was vital to parsing 179. I wanted to know where Jason was going with that, it seems he has not gone anywhere with it yet. I guess in an ideal world I should be holding this post back until he does but... screw that, I want to spark more discussion. But if you get a moment Jason, I would like to know why you asked that, and what your conclusion is from Merlyn's answer.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Doctor Drew He/HimSurvivorHe/Him
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Thank you something smart, this post definitely was....uh, something smart(I will show myself out).
There was something about Merlyns post that made me feel a certain way, but couldn't put my finger on it. But 'motivated reasoning' is kind of what I was thinking. Like she found one little thing she could push as scum, and now is trying to build a case by any means necessary.
And I didn't check, but has she still not voted them despite this?'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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It is worth clarifying, since you may have misunderstood-- I am not saying Merlyn was using motivated reasoning. I'm saying Merlyn was accusing GMo of using motivated reasoning, in essence asking him "did you make stuff up to support your argument?" Which is a pointless question, because nobody would ever answer "yes" to that.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Doctor Drew He/HimSurvivorHe/Him
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Ooh gotcha, yes I misread that.In post 240, Something_Smart wrote: It is worth clarifying, since you may have misunderstood-- I am not saying Merlyn was using motivated reasoning. I'm saying Merlyn was accusing GMo of using motivated reasoning, in essence asking him "did you make stuff up to support your argument?" Which is a pointless question, because nobody would ever answer "yes" to that.
Point still stands about Merlyn.'dREW DID IT BETTER' - T-Bone
'doctor drew our hero' - Shiki
'I love playing with him, he's got an amazing presence to him that just feels like the game is lacking something when he's not there' - JacksonVirgo-
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Merlyn she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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So here's the deal. I don't read GS as scum right now bc when I looked at their answers and accusations, they strike me as coming from blustery town.
BUT I COULD BE WRONG. Because we're actually not far into this game. So yeah, when I see inconsistencies, poor reasoning or things that might later mean something, I point them out.
This was absolutely directed at other town reading along and thinking that GS had actually read that game. This isn't Jeopardy, I shouldn't have to put the answer in a form of a question!In post 238, Something_Smart wrote: GMo is never going to answer "actually yes, I just scanned the game looking for an excuse to scumread you instead of making a fair analysis". And they're not really solving-minded, or they'd be directed at others ("hey, does anyone else think GMo's meta scan was bullshit?")
This is the bottom line. I found some things I didn't like in GMo's posts. They're small, and everyone here should know that they're not really enough to build a case on. But they did happen. And at some point in the future, if they keep happening, they might not be so small anymore. But that's not the case right now.-
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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To clarify Merlyn's stance, and i hadn't posted anything yet because i needed time to actually check something from Merlyn's normal gameplay.In post 238, Something_Smart wrote: And in the same vein, Jason's 181 was perfectly timed, because Merlyn had left it kind of ambiguous and knowing the answer to that was vital to parsing 179. I wanted to know where Jason was going with that, it seems he has not gone anywhere with it yet. I guess in an ideal world I should be holding this post back until he does but... screw that, I want to spark more discussion. But if you get a moment Jason, I would like to know why you asked that, and what your conclusion is from Merlyn's answer.
@Merlyn, your vote was never this super sticky with regards to RVS votes, is there a reason you aren't at least using it more for pressure like you normally do, and hell is there a reason for the general stickiness of your reads in that, it feels like at least in your past 2 games, you were actually using your vote with the questions like this, rather then letting them flop like a wet noodle with this sort of post.
This frankly reads super weird from you, and this fence sitter attitude reads as really off.In post 201, Merlyn wrote: Not really, or I'd be voting them. This stuff is too small to be AI already.
UNVOTE: Skygazer
VOTE: Merlyn
This is E-2Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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Was it meant to simply be a statement then ("GMo took five minutes to make that post and therefore could not have read the whole game"), or an invitation for other people to weigh in? If the former, then the way you phrased it was fine (if unnecessarily antagonistic), but I don't think the latter was clear at all. That post gave the impression that you just wanted to bicker with GMo rather than engage a wider audience on that point.In post 242, Merlyn wrote: This was absolutely directed at other town reading along and thinking that GS had actually read that game. This isn't Jeopardy, I shouldn't have to put the answer in a form of a question!It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Merlyn she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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I don't want to hear about 'you'd rather bicker with mo' when I said I wanted to drop it pages ago. And I definitely don't want to hear 'unnecessarily antagonistic' when the player who called me a liar gets off Scott free.-
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Merlyn she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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LOL Well I definitely wasn't trying to do any noodle flopping. I don't enjoy interacting with folks on this site who will argue with you endlessly and escalate till you're in a battle for pages with them and I could see that's how it was going to go with GS. I'm not someone who will be having a 5-page fight in these games regardless of alignment. It's not fun for me and I play here for fun.In post 243, JasonWazza wrote: @Merlyn, your vote was never this super sticky with regards to RVS votes, is there a reason you aren't at least using it more for pressure like you normally do, and hell is there a reason for the general stickiness of your reads in that, it feels like at least in your past 2 games, you were actually using your vote with the questions like this, rather then letting them flop like a wet noodle with this sort of post.-
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Merlyn she/herMafia Scumshe/her
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Like, I don't even have a good idea about who to vote for rn, and that's because the game is only about GS and I while scum lurks in the background and takes advantage of what was likely a TvT spat.-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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You should feel complimented rather than insulted, it means I'm holding you to a higher standard than GMo.In post 245, Merlyn wrote: I don't want to hear about 'you'd rather bicker with mo' when I said I wanted to drop it pages ago. And I definitely don't want to hear 'unnecessarily antagonistic' when the player who called me a liar gets off Scott free.
Or maybe I'm just numb to people saying "X is lying" when they mean "X is wrong". I did not read that post as antagonistic in the same way as I did yours.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!-
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Something_Smart He/himSomewhat_BalancedHe/him
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You think GS is town? On their own merits, or just because of the attention this conflict has received?In post 247, Merlyn wrote: Like, I don't even have a good idea about who to vote for rn, and that's because the game is only about GS and I while scum lurks in the background and takes advantage of what was likely a TvT spat.
I feel like the only one drawing attention to it, besides GS themselves, has been me.It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
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